Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[BBerean]

1 Timothy 2.11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. AND I DO NOT PERMIT a woman to teach or have authority over a man , but to be in silence.

Is this man’s judgement or the Lords ?
If a women does this is she sinning against the Lord ? If in ignorance she can learn as she should , other wise it’s wilful sin against the Lord .

2 Colossians 16 let no man judge you in food or in drink , or regarding festival or a new moon or sabbaths .

This is speaking of men of the religious Jews or other men apart from the Lord . Not at all about the Lords judgement for the person that’s entirely another matter . We can not disallow the Lords commandments and voice using this scripture in Colossians as an excuse. As some appear to be doing .

Certainly not breaking the law . Obedient followers do the Lords commandments out of love for the Lord . Those that break the Lords commandments more so in the NT will be judged by the Lord , for the purpose of growth into maturity as a believer. But those that rebel against the truth are also revealed . Jesus Sheep follow him . Tares do not .
Apostle Paul said 1 Corinthians 4.3 But it’s a very small thing that I should be judged of you or by a human court . In fact I do not even judge myself.

He who judges me is the Lord . (Read more of the chapter for clarity).

 

[Gideon300]

I didn't catch this at first.

"God warned Cain not to kill his brother because that was sin."

Please define what is sin??

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law/Torah: for sin is the transgression of the law.

the only Law in the entire Word of God is Torah.

Thus: Cain transgressed the Torah. there is a commandment against murder, sin.

And are you aware Abraham obeyed the Torah, including the commandments and the Statutes
That can be found in Genesis 26. the word used as law is #8451 Torah.

I have come to learn just how hated the Torah is. shocking

Absurd. You just make it up as you go along.

 

[McShawn]

Absurd. You just make it up as you go along.

Shockingly absurd.

 

[McShawn]

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭35‬-‭40‬ ‭

 

[BBerean]

1 Timothy 2.11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. AND I DO NOT PERMIT a woman to teach or have authority over a man , but to be in silence.

Is this man’s judgement or the Lords ?
If a women does this is she sinning against the Lord ? If in ignorance she can learn as she should , other wise it’s wilful sin against the Lord .

2 Colossians 16 let no man judge you in food or in drink , or regarding festival or a new moon or sabbaths .

This is speaking of men of the religious Jews or other men apart from the Lord . Not at all about the Lords judgement for the person that’s entirely another matter . We can not disallow the Lords commandments and voice using this scripture in Colossians as an excuse. As some appear to be doing .

Certainly not breaking the law . Obedient followers do the Lords commandments out of love for the Lord . Those that break the Lords commandments more so in the NT will be judged by the Lord , for the purpose of growth into maturity as a believer. But those that rebel against the truth are also revealed . Jesus Sheep follow him . Tares do not .
Apostle Paul said 1 Corinthians 4.3 But it’s a very small thing that I should be judged of you or by a human court . In fact I do not even judge myself.

He who judges me is the Lord . (Read more of the chapter for clarity)

 

[BBerean]

A reminder the Lord wrote his commandments and also gave them to the Apostles known as the Apostles doctrine. I did not write them , so if you do not want to follow the Lords commandments he wrote them for us all , I’m just repeating what he said , I did not make them up or write them . God bless as you seek and obey the truth , Lord willing!

 

[memberofthebride]

Absurd. You just make it up as you go along.

LOL So sin just pops up out of thin air??

Who is it that has the right to tell us what sin is?

Do you actually believe Christ put man here on earth without any instructions on how to live, what is acceptable and what is Not?
I am shock at what folks are willing to believe.
Christ was dead on --- many shall be deceived and they surely are.

 

[Gideon300]

LOL So sin just pops up out of thin air??

Who is it that has the right to tell us what sin is?

Do you actually believe Christ put man here on earth without any instructions on how to live, what is acceptable and what is Not?
I am shock at what folks are willing to believe.
Christ was dead on --- many shall be deceived and they surely are.

Jesus came that we might have life, not a set of rules to follow. Look how that worked out for Israel. Since you are not born again, you have only the law to go by. The problem with that is that you cannot obey the law. Get saved and born again. Then you will have eternal life.

Tell me the hundreds of commandments Adam and Eve were given. You cannot There was just one prohibition. And God warned them that the fruit of the tree would kill them. God did not kill Adam.

Lord Jesus gave us His Spirit that we might have eternal life right now. There is a new law, one without words, that is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. You think that you can save yourself by obeying the law. You are deluded.​

 

[GWH]

The Sabbath is a nice day of the week, and Sabbath Law was part of the OT Torah,
but per the NT it should no longer be regarded as special, because believers should do good/godly deeds every day.

 

[memberofthebride]

Jesus came that we might have life, not a set of rules to follow. Look how that worked out for Israel. Since you are not born again, you have only the law to go by. The problem with that is that you cannot obey the law. Get saved and born again. Then you will have eternal life.

Tell me the hundreds of commandments Adam and Eve were given. You cannot There was just one prohibition. And God warned them that the fruit of the tree would kill them. God did not kill Adam.

Lord Jesus gave us His Spirit that we might have eternal life right now. There is a new law, one without words, that is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. You think that you can save yourself by obeying the law. You are deluded.​

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

"that is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus".
what in the world does that even mean?
the words of Jesus Christ I quoted are clear, understandable

not a set of rules to follow. ???

Really, tell that to Jesus Christ.
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

there are many many more like this -- obeying is required

 

[God-fearing]

I just wanted to say that my stance on the weekly sabbath as well as the feastdays of the Lord as I see it are not part of the Law given to Israel. Yes they are included as God had pick Israel as his chosen.
All of them point to Christ and were established well before the law was given. All are found in Genesis a part of the creation.
I do not advocate that Christians have to or need to observe them but do not condemn those that do.
I will always defend my beliefs that these were not for Israel only and this is the law to Israel only as a misunderstanding, and should never be taught as such.
We honor God in worship and praise in fellowship and obedience hear what the Spirit has to say. This is the part of freedom in Christ
We have.

 

[GWH]

I just wanted to say that my stance on the weekly sabbath as well as the feastdays of the Lord as I see it are not part of the Law given to Israel. Yes they are included as God had pick Israel as his chosen.
All of them point to Christ and were established well before the law was given. All are found in Genesis a part of the creation.
I do not advocate that Christians have to or need to observe them but do not condemn those that do.
I will always defend my beliefs that these were not for Israel only and this is the law to Israel only as a misunderstanding, and should never be taught as such.
We honor God in worship and praise in fellowship and obedience hear what the Spirit has to say. This is the part of freedom in Christ
We have.

Well, as God-fearing truthseekers we should always amend our beliefs when we learn more of GW that should improve understanding.
Thus, it would be better to say that our current understanding is such and such, but because of freedom in Christ we remain open
to reasons for amending our beliefs (Rom. 12:2, Eph. 4:11-15, Phil. 3:12-16). Right?

 

[Roger316]

It is the 7th day. And it does not matter what it is called in man's culture or language. The 7th day is the 7th day.

Yes, it does matter because Jewish culture defines the Seventh Day of the week as Saturday. But for Gentiles, the seventh day of the week is Sunday. That is a fact of our reality.

Look at the life of Jesus. He would not have gotten the day wrong. Jesus obeyed the law perfectly.

Of course. He was living under a Jewish calendar. Gentiles today live under another calendar.

There is no debate about which day of the week is the seventh day of creation.

Of course there is no debate because the Jewish calendar was not established until after Mount Sinai.

The seventh day of creation is Saturday and this is the day that God blessed and sanctified.

Keeping the sabbath.... = sunset Friday until sunset Saturday.

The Jews have not lost track of time..

This an error because the Jewish calendar didn't name the days of the week, such as Saturday or Sunday. The Jewish calendar numbered them instead, such as "day one", "day two", "day three," and etc.

 

[TMS]

Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭35‬-‭40‬ ‭

The 2 great laws are a summary of all ....
On these two hang all the laws

So the 10 commandments are summarizes by these two...

Rom 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The first 4 of the 10 commandments are about our relationship with God.
So love for God is a summary of the first 4..

The 2 great commandments do not replace the 10. They are a the principles that the 10 are based on. LOVE.
LOVE FOR GOD, AND LOVE FOR EACH OTHER.

 

[Roger316]

Then how did God legally take the lives of gentiles.

God doesn't need a Law to take a life. He has the right of authorship. Just as a potter has the right to destroy a pot he created, and just as a painter has the right to destroy a painting he made, God has the right to destroy a person he created.

But God declared. After the flood event, a murderer shall suffer the death penalty. Genesis 9:4-6

transgressions of God's Holy Law the 10 Command"s", all 10 carry the penalty of death

Yes, but violating the 10 Commandments is a civil matter. A suspect must be tried before a Jewish court in the presence of two witnesses. Only then can the death penalty be carried out.

That was carried out within the Jewish context according to a covenant God made with Israel. The Gentiles are not obligated to obey the 10 commandments unless their nation has adopted them into their legal system.

Do you think God does things that are not legal?

To be clear and precise, we need to maintain the distinction between moral absolutes and moral laws. One such moral absolute is the sacredness of human life. The Bible teaches us that we are to take all measures possible to preserve and protect human life. And we should create laws to enforce such measures.

The fourth commandment contains both a moral law and a civil law. The command to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy is a moral imperative. All human beings are obligated to remember that God created the world in seven days and that he rested on the seventh day. Only the Jewish people are obligated to rest on Saturday. The Gentiles are not obligated to rest at all.

 

[memberofthebride]

Yes, it does matter because Jewish culture defines the Seventh Day of the week as Saturday. But for Gentiles, the seventh day of the week is Sunday. That is a fact of our reality.

Of course. He was living under a Jewish calendar. Gentiles today live under another calendar.

Of course there is no debate because the Jewish calendar was not established until after Mount Sinai.

This an error because the Jewish calendar didn't name the days of the week, such as Saturday or Sunday. The Jewish calendar numbered them instead, such as "day one", "day two", "day three," and etc.

the only day with a name is the Sabbath.

The word Sabbath originates from the Hebrew verb shavat (or shabbath), which literally translates to "to rest," "to stop," or "to cease."

And where did the calendar come from, Rome, gentiles
Practically every thing the christian church does and believes came from Rome and Gentiles, not the Word of God, O or N T.
who was given oversight of the O T, the Jews, who has preserved it, Jews
Who wrote the N T, Jews.

The shift from celebrating the resurrection during Passover to observing a separate Easter Sunday was formalized at the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. (roman) Church leaders established that Easter would be celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the vernal equinox, intentionally separating it from the Jewish calendar's Passover. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD was convened and heavily influenced by the Roman Emperor Constantine I to establish Christian doctrine and unity,

Do you believe God the Father and Jesus Christ turned all things over to gentiles, Roman gentiles, to alter what Christ set up?
nope!

 

[TMS]

Jesus came that we might have life, not a set of rules to follow. Look how that worked out for Israel. Since you are not born again, you have only the law to go by. The problem with that is that you cannot obey the law. Get saved and born again. Then you will have eternal life.

He came to save us. Save us from what?

Sin.

Sin is the transgression of the law.

If we are saved by removing the law we can transgress the law and not sin.

Sin is still present today so the law is still pointing out sin.

Jesus paid the price of transgressing the law, He did not remove the law.

The fact that He died, for our sins is fact that the law is still present.

I agree that we can not keep the law in the flesh..
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Be careful, you are judging the heart's of people when you say, "since you are not born again". Keeping the law is what born again people do.. This spiritual transformation is not a release from the law, but a divine work that brings the soul into harmony with it.

Born again people do not rob banks or lie.

Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9
Phil 2:15.
Sin is the transgression of the law. So the Bible states that born again people do not transgress the law, commit sin.

1Pe 1:22-23
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Born again people obey the Spirit of God. They obey the law of God.

 

[memberofthebride]

God doesn't need a Law to take a life. He has the right of authorship. Just as a potter has the right to destroy a pot he created, and just as a painter has the right to destroy a painting he made, God has the right to destroy a person he created.

But God declared. After the flood event, a murderer shall suffer the death penalty. Genesis 9:4-6

Yes, but violating the 10 Commandments is a civil matter. A suspect must be tried before a Jewish court in the presence of two witnesses. Only then can the death penalty be carried out.

That was carried out within the Jewish context according to a covenant God made with Israel. The Gentiles are not obligated to obey the 10 commandments unless their nation has adopted them into their legal system.

To be clear and precise, we need to maintain the distinction between moral absolutes and moral laws. One such moral absolute is the sacredness of human life. The Bible teaches us that we are to take all measures possible to preserve and protect human life. And we should create laws to enforce such measures.

The fourth commandment contains both a moral law and a civil law. The command to remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy is a moral imperative. All human beings are obligated to remember that God created the world in seven days and that he rested on the seventh day. Only the Jewish people are obligated to rest on Saturday. The Gentiles are not obligated to rest at all.

forget all that civil matter stuff---
what gives Jesus Christ the legal right to put people to death? because He has and He will again.
The Torah. there is nothing else - period.

If the Torah did not demand the penalty of death for transgressing the 10 Commandments, then Jesus Christ did not need to die.

No pardons, no forgiveness no way around the penalty of death. sin and you die!!

Therefore: without the Torah, Jesus Christ would have no legal right to put a single person to death.
and the death of billions is shown in the N T and the O T, to be just ahead -- because of SIN and sin is only found in the TORAH.
Sin, physical and spiritual, is the transgression of the Torah = period.

all human life that God has taken to date, was legal because of sin, giving God the legal right to carry out the penalty of death as prescribed by and in the Torah.

Is it possible to "word" this to death certainly, that is what humans do best and why "sudden destruction" is certain.

 

[BBerean]

I’m done with this thread , the darkness is astounding! May God bless those that find the truth ! and I get refreshed when I keep the Sabbath like the Early believers did rather than breaking the Law . Amen !

 

[Roger316]

the only day with a name is the Sabbath.

In ancient Hebrew usage the seventh day was literally called “the seventh day” (yom ha‑shevi‘i). It did not have a separate name like “Saturday.” The name of the day was its number.

And where did the calendar come from, Rome, gentiles
Practically every thing the christian church does and believes came from Rome and Gentiles, not the Word of God, O or N T.
who was given oversight of the O T, the Jews, who has preserved it, Jews
Who wrote the N T, Jews.

It doesn't matter who established the Gentile Calendar because the Hebrew people maintain "the Seventh day" as the Sabbath "day of rest."

Do you believe God the Father and Jesus Christ turned all things over to gentiles, Roman gentiles, to alter what Christ set up?
nope!

No one has altered what Christ set up because, contrary to Catholic Teaching, Christ didn't establish a religion. He was a practicing Jew and obeyed the laws of Israel while he was on earth.

Paul the Apostle also discouraged Gentile believers from establishing a religion and especially from adopting Jewish practices. Christianity is not about living out a religious practice, whether it be Jewish, Catholic, or Protestant. We are free in Christ.