Some words by Spurgeon;

[Speak2Me]

Didn't read it all, but loved this part: Law and boasting are twin brothers, but free grace and gratitude always go together.

Some people love anything with "free grace" in it.

 

[Speak2Me]

But on the topic of context, I’ve noticed the NT writers sometimes took OT Scriptures out of context to prove their points. It appears the Spirit of God can do what He wants with His Book. Even when the theologians of His day didn’t agree. They were so confident in their theology they attacked and killed the One they professed to know. Let’s not let the traditions of theology speak louder to us than the Spirit of our Living God.

It seems there's times people will attack the writers of the scriptures to justify their buddies parroting eisegesis.

 

[Speak2Me]

When people write in allegory and/or read into a text, I’ve seen it called taking things out of context. What the writers did would more than likely in some circles today be called taking things out of context. I’ve seen people ridicule revelations of Scripture from people that are based on allegory. And reading into a text. To the Jews, the learned theologians of their day, the writers were taking things out of context. Jews today still use that argument.

I’m not reversing, I am saying if we are inflexible because of past traditions to what the Spirit is speaking we could see things out of context. He knows how to use His Book. He is OUR Teacher.

And I am not saying learned men are not lead by the Spirit. That would be silly, but I am saying being lead by Him is most important. It is by His Spirit we are transformed. As you said spiritual things are spiritually discerned. And spiritual things are foolishness to the natural mind. We must be open to being taught to be taught. Paul says let those who think they are wise realize they are fools, he says he didn’t use words of wisdom, he says God loves to use the foolish things to confound the wise.

After reading this I have no clue what he's saying, because he seems to be agreeing on both sides of the discussion.

I guess you agree with everyone when you know you can't win.

 

[preacher4truth]

It seems there's times people will attack the writers of the scriptures to justify their buddies parroting eisegesis.

Yep, no holds barred for some. Even Scripture must bow to their unsubstantiable opinion. Then of course, on top of that Scholars aren't transformed, they just have knowledge but don't walk with God.

 

[Speak2Me]

In light of all that has been said here about interpretation and context., I'm extremely thankful we each have the Holy Spirit who opens the many different meanings of the Word to us and shows us precious doctrines and teachings no matter what our educational backrounds.

Do I hear what I think I hear?

It sounds like "The Holy Spirit gives me multiple meanings of one scripture"

Don't blame HIM for that. That's blasphemy.

 

[Speak2Me]

In my opinion JM’s not on trial. She doesn’t need to know Hebrew or Greek to know God.

Yep, that's an opinion. That plus $1.04 still wouldn't get you a cup of coffee.

Any person who teaches their own or parrots someone else's false doctrine is still a false teacher, & will receive a false teacher's reward.

 

[Speak2Me]

I liked what you said here, and also what Spurgeon said. My brother said once that our sins are a "drop in the ocean," of God's mercy, and he is Russian Orthodox. Despair is a form of rebellion in a way, and Dr. Neil Anderson says in his book, "The Bondage Breaker," that it comes from the condemnation of the night which leads to hopelessness, instead of the conviction of the Holy Spirit, which leads to repentance, like Peter. And unbelief is also a form of rebellion where people don't want to submit to a power greater than ourselves--or even prefer to condemn themselves and take the role of judge, rather than servant.

It's crazy but even depression has got to be some form of resisting the light--
A chatter named NickT said it very well this evening on the same subject-- we all want to earn our salvation.
I think God said: "the buck stops here!" even the Beatles had it figured out: "money can't buy me love..."

thank-you for your friendly "welcoming the stranger" in Christian chat! (Matt. 25--)

Dr. Neil Anderson says in his books that born-again christians can be demon-possessed.

Write a book, & they will buy...

 

[Nehemiah6]

it would be interesting to hear what you think apostle John was teaching about sin. Spurgeon was talking about repentance, i dont get your remark about cherry picking.

Gerty,

I notice that you have just one post so Welcome to CC and I trust you will have a good time. Back to your question, I was referring to the first epistle of John. Although it is not directly related to this OP, if you will check out the threads generated by joaniemarie, you will note that she cuts and pastes "devotionals" from Joseph Prince. Many of us have pointed out his false doctrines to her, but that makes no difference.

Prince erroneously teaches that Christians DO NOT have to deal with their present sins, whereas John teaches that they absolutely have to deal with them. Furthermore, if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, the truth is not in us, and we make God a liar. But if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is all spelled out in the first two chapters of this epistle. Now while John does not explicitly state that confession of sins includes repentance (turning away) from those sins, it is perfectly clear from Scripture that that is what is required. Otherwise confession would be simply a farce. But Prince (and other like him) have influenced people like joaniemarie to believe that none of this applies to Christians.

As to the OP what Spurgeon was talking about is repentance for the remission of sins. That is a necessity for the sinner. That he or she TURN FROM sins and idols in their lives and TURN TO GOD AND CHRIST. Why? Because sinners who do not repent are not converted and will not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 2:38; 3:19).

 

[joaniemarie]

Still, I know what they mean, for in the days of my darkness I used to feel in the same way. I desired to repent, but I thought that I could not do it, and yet all the while I was repenting. Odd as it may sound, I felt that I could not feel. I used to get into a corner and weep, because I could not weep; and I fell into bitter sorrow because I could not sorrow for sin.

What a jumble it all is when in our unbelieving state we begin to judge our own condition! It is like a blind man looking at his own eyes. My heart was melted within me for fear, because I thought that my heart was as hard as an adamant stone. My heart was broken to think that it would not break. Now I can see that I was exhibiting the very thing which I thought I did not possess; but then I knew not where I was. Remember that the man who truly repents is never satisfied with his own repentance.

We can no more repent perfectly than we can live perfectly. However pure our tears, there will always be some dirt in them: there will be something to be repented of even in our best repentance. But listen! To repent is to change your mind about sin, and Christ, and all the great things of God. There is sorrow implied in this; but the main point is the turning of the heart from sin to Christ. If there be this turning, you have the essence of true repentance, even though no alarm and no despair should ever have cast their shadow upon your mind.“



I agree with Spurgeon here as I agreed before. I didn't need to post the whole sermon. But my understanding of his writing comes to a totally different understanding than some of you about what Mr.Spurgeon is saying. Spurgeon knows that:

We can no more repent perfectly than we can live perfectly. However pure our tears, there will always be some dirt in them: there will be something to be repented of even in our best repentance. But listen! To repent is to change your mind about sin, and Christ, and all the great things of God. There is sorrow implied in this; but the main point is the turning of the heart from sin to Christ



When a believer realizes that their life is IN Christ., they know their life is not secure in their feelings or their sorrow of their sin. We are no longer to live as we did in our former life and understanding. The "repentance" needed is the changed mind towards God. To see themselves and God and Christ in a new and living way. We look away "to" someONE., And that someone is NOT ourselves.

We look away to JESUS...The Author and finisher of our faith. As we were first saved by grace through faith., that is how we live here after.... by grace through faith. When we sin., we know now that we have an Advocate with the Father. We don't count on our own emotions and thoughts of sadness or regret so be be- self righteousness., we look away to the sacrifice of Jesus and the righteousness He gave us as a free gift. (just as we did when we first heard the good news) We bring to remembrance who we are now IN Christ.

And so., I and many other believers agree with Spurgeon. But not the way you and Angela see it. In the beginning of this writing., he is explaining the despair of he has of why his heart is not "feeling" the remorse he thinks he should for the lack of "spirituality" his mind thought he should be feeling. He is looking so much at himself and the feelings and emotions that he felt he should feel., that he missed the simplicity of Christ and of total forgiveness given to him from what he used to be. His old man is dead., his new man lives. Because Jesus lives., so do we. As He is., so are we in this world.

Romans 8:1-2 Explains it well., For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets me free from the law of sin and of death.
Spurgeon and I do see we are no longer under the law of sin and death that brings guilt and empty works stemming from our own righteousness of the flesh. but we now rest in the salvation Jesus died to give us and we do it each day. There is a rest for the people of God.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.

 

[joaniemarie]

Some people love anything with "free grace" in it.

As we should. Grace is by definition FREE. Grace us undeserved., unmerited love and favor. We can't do anything earn it.,to deserve it., to merit it., or it no longer is grace., but works. The two cannot co-exist.

 

[joaniemarie]

After reading this I have no clue what he's saying, because he seems to be agreeing on both sides of the discussion.

I guess you agree with everyone when you know you can't win.

If we come to these forums or to any gathering with other Christians (or other people) with the mentality to "win" over them than we are here for the wrong reasons and or motives. IMO.

I believe we come together as believers to share the things the Holy Spirit has taught us and to encourage and help our brethren who are in need to know the truth. The Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. God gives the church pastors, teachers, evangelists, deacons., etc.. as gifts.

Many of us have been blessed over the years to have heard or read some amazing Christians and preachers and teachers (such as Spurgeon) and many others. And so we desire to share the good news of what we were given about Jesus and His love for the brethren. To help to build up one another in the faith by sharing the Word again and again.,and again and again.

 

[Laish]

JoanieMarie, I see she doesn't just hate me! Does Angela53510 ever say what she believes, or just cast stones for fun?

Yes she dose express what she believes . Learn to read ! You may not agree with her but don’t slander the lady’s good name . That is pathetic.
Bill

 

[joaniemarie]

Do I hear what I think I hear?

It sounds like "The Holy Spirit gives me multiple meanings of one scripture"

Don't blame HIM for that. That's blasphemy.

Yes., you heard right., the Holy Spirit tells some people things that others don't hear as it is plainly seen here on this thread. That is not "blasphemy" that is living the Christian life along with other Christians.

Not all of us will read a verse in the Bible and have the exact same message revealed to us because the Bible is an amazing book. It opens up to each one of us what we each need to know for any given time in our lives. Spiritual truths come to us in a spiritual way. The Bible has the uncanny supernatural ability because of the living Holy Spirit who works in us to reveal the truth as we need to understand.,

Hebrews 4:12-14
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And there is no creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and laid open before the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes she dose express what she believes . Learn to read ! You may not agree with her but don’t slander the lady’s good name . That is pathetic.
Bill

People with sound doctrine are slammed by people on here like him who aren't.

 

[joaniemarie]

Gerty,

I notice that you have just one post so Welcome to CC and I trust you will have a good time. Back to your question, I was referring to the first epistle of John. Although it is not directly related to this OP, if you will check out the threads generated by joaniemarie, you will note that she cuts and pastes "devotionals" from Joseph Prince. Many of us have pointed out his false doctrines to her, but that makes no difference.

Prince erroneously teaches that Christians DO NOT have to deal with their present sins, whereas John teaches that they absolutely have to deal with them. Furthermore, if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, the truth is not in us, and we make God a liar. But if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is all spelled out in the first two chapters of this epistle. Now while John does not explicitly state that confession of sins includes repentance (turning away) from those sins, it is perfectly clear from Scripture that that is what is required. Otherwise confession would be simply a farce. But Prince (and other like him) have influenced people like joaniemarie to believe that none of this applies to Christians.

As to the OP what Spurgeon was talking about is repentance for the remission of sins. That is a necessity for the sinner. That he or she TURN FROM sins and idols in their lives and TURN TO GOD AND CHRIST. Why? Because sinners who do not repent are not converted and will not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost...Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 2:38; 3:19).

hello Gerty., I am sorry that Nehemiah is not representing me properly. I believe we daily deal with sin in our lives but like it has been explained here in this thread, we don't look to or focus on our selves., we look and focus on Jesus and the forgiveness that He gives as a guarantee.

We don't cry and wallow in self pity and remorse that often keeps us from the very throne of grace we are instructed to go to., As believers we now can come "boldly" to the throne of grace and find grace and help in time of need just as the Bible instructs us to. Hebrews 4:16

For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let us therefore draw near with boldness unto the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and may find grace to help us in time of need.




We can only do that when we have confidence in the One (Jesus) who has made our way clear. We can't clear our own way by our tears and by our guilt and self condemnation. The devil is the one who condemns the brethren. We go to God in the righteousness of Christ. He gave us His righteousness as a gift and we are to walk in His righteousness., not our own. When we do that., we are empowered to walk in newness of the life Christ died to give us.

 

[joaniemarie]

Was just thinking again about the Biblical meaning of repentance and some of the things people think it means that it doesn't mean. . Judas was very sorry and regretful and his kind of repentance was not towards God but towards his own ideas of what repentance means and trying to remedy it himself.

"Repentance towards God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" Is true repentance.

Judas got into the act of human sorrow that looks back again to self and finds no hope. Even after he threw the money away that he got from the religious leaders for betraying Jesus., Judas saw only doom.,regret and hopelessness. So Judas went and hung himself in all his sorrow and regret and what some would call "repentance". The kind of repentance that cries.,mourns., hates self, hates the sin. But Judas didn't look to Jesus who is the answer, the remedy for all sin and shame and regret and forgiveness. Judas instead killed himself., and actually denied Jesus. Acts.20:21

[SUP]20 [/SUP]how I shrank not from declaring unto you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly, and from house to house, [SUP]21 [/SUP]testifying both to Jews and to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus [SUP][a][/SUP]Christ.

​Worth repeating in light of the other posts here.

 

[stillness]

Thought this was worth re posting in light of all the different kinds of repentance-s going on. Do we cry or do we change our minds and agree with God? I say we change our minds and agree with God. Basically let the Holy Spirit have reign over our thoughts each day so He can change our minds and "we" can be in agreement with Him. Amen!

Hi Joaniemarie, Years ago when I was a New Christian taking pride in hearing the Lord speak, He told me: Your going to fall that you may learn to continually repent.
Like what you wrote and cheer you on, may your spirit be refreshed: I see your a godly woman as well, was obvious the first I saw you but this is the first I see you persecuted for righteousness, don't forget to count it all joy. Your secret admirer with my hands up.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Do I hear what I think I hear?

It sounds like "The Holy Spirit gives me multiple meanings of one scripture"

Don't blame HIM for that. That's blasphemy.

I have found in my walk that the same scripture can show me many different things at different times. I think we should be careful about using terms like "blasphemy" for two reasons, first, it tends to retard the open sharing of ideas when all we say or type is scrutinized then labeled and second it cheapens the term. We should be striving to lift up one another instead of claiming bad doctrine or blasphemy when we do not agree with one another.

When we decide that we know all there is to know and anyone who dares disagree is a blasphemer, we not only take a step back towards the dark ages but on a more important note we blind ourselves to what God may be trying to teach us. I find that as I learn more I must be ever watchful that my pride be kept in check. When I am able to stay humble and love others I am shown much more.

I applaud anyone who goes to seminary or bible college and learns the ancient languages and strives to increase their knowledge. I also have found that some of the greatest things God has shown me have occurred in small bible studies.
I think that we all grow and learn in the way God sees fit to teach us and that we all are much more in the spirit when we can listen to each other and respectfully disagree than when we argue.

Shalom.

 

[stillness]

As we should. Grace is by definition FREE. Grace us undeserved., unmerited love and favor. We can't do anything earn it.,to deserve it., to merit it., or it no longer is grace., but works. The two cannot co-exist.

Came to understand One thing:
Found 3 times in the bible: One thing is needful and Mary has chosen that good part, witch will not be taken from her.
Mary is the first, Jesus made an example of receiving Grace: God's ability to forget her old life and go on to know the Lord.
Paul's words: One thing I do, forgetting what lies behind I press on...
The first mention was to the rich young ruler, "One thing you lack," Explains the cost of Grace to repent: giving up our Life for the Life of God. "A new commandment I give you, that you Love one another as I Love you."
Yes we come short and we can misunderstand, it's not about giving up money, as Paul explains that could be done without Love and "Without Love I am nothing. Grace is freely given as we come to Him for help. Now you don't have to "Sell all that you have and give to the poor and come follow Me" as you won't find Him on earth to follow, it's to late for that:
"If we have known Jesus after the flesh, from now on we no longer know Him after the flesh."
How do we know sell all you have and give to the poor is no longer a requirement to be a disciple? lol some of you are thinking, you better have a good answer in the bible about this. "Let him that has a purse take it." Just before Jesus left.
It's giving our whole heart that counts: Not having a divided spirit, this was represented by Mary Magdalene breaking the Jar of ointment, as her heart, and pouring her admiration and appreciation, anointing Jesus for burial. It was needful for the Lord to experience appreciation for His sacrifice, and He said that where salvation would be preached, what she did would be mentioned.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Philippians 3:13-14

“Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,”
“I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.”
​