Some Xmas Stories

Webers.Home · Dec 7, 2022

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Jesus' Mom

• Luke 1:31-33 . . Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son,
and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the
Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and
he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be
no end.

Jesus' genealogy is relatively unimportant to the average Gentile, whereas
very important to Jews because only David's biological posterity qualifies to
ascend his throne and govern the land of Israel.

• Ps 89:4-5 . . I have made a covenant with my chosen one; I have sworn
to David my servant: I will make your dynasty stand forever and establish
your throne through all ages.

• Ps 89:36-38 . . By my holiness I swore once for all: I will never be false to
David. His dynasty will continue forever, his throne, like the sun before me.
Like the moon it will stand eternal, forever firm like the sky!

• Ps132:11 . .The Lord swore an oath to David in truth, He will never turn
back from it: “Your own offspring I will set upon your throne."

It's actually a fairly simple task to prove Jesus' biological connection to
David.

• Rom 1:3 . . . His son; descended from David according to the flesh

The Greek word translated "descendant" in that passage is a bit ambiguous
because it can refer to spiritual posterity as well as to biological; for
example:

• Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendant,

That descendant is obviously spiritual; whereas David's is biological because
it's "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

* Seeing as Jesus' dad Joseph played no role in his son's conception, and his
wife Mary was a virgin at the time, then Jesus' biological connection to David
defaults thru his mother.

Now, the thing is: if true that Mary's baby is David's biological posterity, and
if true that David is Adam's biological posterity; then it must be that Jesus
too is Adam's biological posterity, viz: Jesus' human origin was the very dust
with which the human race was constructed in the very beginning per
Genesis 2:7

FAQ: From whence did baby Jesus obtain a Y chromosome for his male
gender?

REPLY: In the beginning, Eve's entire body-- inside and out, front to back,
top to bottom, and side to side --was constructed with material taken from
Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-22) So if God could construct an entire woman
from material taken from a man's body, then it shouldn't be too difficult for
Him to construct a teensy little chromosome from a woman's body.

Seeing as how Eve is the mother of all women (Gen 3:20 & Acts 17:26) then
any material taken from Mary's body to construct a Y chromosome for baby
Jesus would be owed to Eve's body; and by construction: Adam's body.

The beauty of it is that a Y chromosome constructed with material taken
from Mary's body wouldn't be an alien substance created ex nihilo; but
would be 100% natural, and easily traceable all the way back to Eve, and
from thence to the very dust that was used to construct Adam's body.

I sincerely believe that what I suggest herein actually took place when the
power of the Most High overshadowed Jesus' mom per Luke 1:35; and if my
suggestion is true, then little Jesus was thoroughly a Jew-- biologically
descended not only from David and Abraham as all other Jews, but also from
the Man that God created in the book of Genesis.

• Heb 2:17 . . He had to be made like his brethren in every way
_

Webers.Home · Dec 7, 2022

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Jesus' Dad

Joseph played no role in Jesus' conception. (Matt 1:18-19 & Luke 1:31-35)

Even so; Mary's boy is positioned in Joseph's genealogy. (Matt 1:1-17)

It's sometimes assumed Jesus was Joseph's foster child. But foster kids have
no place in a man's family tree. Seeing as how Jesus wasn't Joseph's
biological progeny, then the only way he could be legally placed in Joseph's
genealogy was by adoption.

Joseph and Mary were both instructed give her baby the name Jesus. (Matt
1:21 & Luke 1:31) In ancient Israel, when a man stood with a woman to
name her child, it was assumed his.

• Luke 2:21 . .On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he
was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been
conceived.

From then on: the Bible, the neighbors, and Jesus' mom knew him as
Joseph's son. (Luke 2:27-28, Luke 2:41, Luke 2:48, & Luke 4:22)

FAQ: Why make an issue out of Jesus' association with Joseph?

REPLY: Because Jesus was ordained of God to inherit David's throne. (Luke
1:32-33)

Now the thing is: David's throne never passes down to his posterity via
women; it's always passes down via the men in his line, viz: Mary was able
to give her son a biological connection to David, but she couldn't give him
the throne.

For another thing; the throne has to come down via David's son Solomon.
(1Kings 1:13 & 1Chron 22:9-10) Joseph is related to Solomon. (Matt 1:6
and Matt 1:16)

Long story short: it was necessary for Joseph to adopt Mary's boy in order to
place the lad in Solomon's genealogy and thus validate him as a rightful heir
to the throne.

FAQ: Since when did the Jews begin placing men in positions of power by
adoption?

REPLY: Jacob was the first. (Gen 48:5-6)

He divided the tribe of Joseph in two, and set Manasseh and Ephraim over
them as tribal heads equal in position to Jacob's eldest sons Reuben and
Simeon.
_

Webers.Home · Dec 7, 2022

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Jesus' Shepherds

• Luke 2:8-12 . . Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields
and keeping the night watch over their flock. The angel of The Lord
appeared to them, and the glory of The Lord shone around them, and they
were struck with great fear.

. . .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you
good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of
David a savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord.

The angel announced the birth of a savior; defined by Webster's as one who
rescues.

Rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what
Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings or need to be
cut out of a crumpled car wreck. Rescuing is what mountaineer teams do
when climbers are in trouble. Rescuing is what EMT paramedics do when
someone needs to get to a hospital in a hurry and kept alive till they arrive.
Rescuing is what surgeons do when someone needs an organ transplant.

I could go on and on giving example of rescuer after rescuer; but I think we
get the idea. The New Testament's Jesus is like that: he rescues people from
the wrath of God-- people who not only fully deserve it, but definitely in line
to get it; and with no humanly possible way to avoid it.

Now; of what real benefit would the savior of Luke 2:8-12 really be to
anybody if he couldn't guarantee a fail-safe rescue from the wrath of God?
He'd be of no benefit to anybody. No; he'd be an incompetent ninny that
nobody could rely on.

But, if a savior were to be announced who guaranteed anybody who wants
it, a completely free of charge, no strings attached, guaranteed fail-safe, sin
proof, human nature-proof, Ten Commandments-proof, bad behavior-proof,
apostasy-proof, reprobate-proof, back-sliding proof, God-proof, Devil-proof
rescue from the wrath of God, and full-time protection from future
retribution; wouldn't that qualify as good news of great joy?

I think just about everybody concerned about ending up in the lake of
brimstone depicted at Rev 20:10-15 would have to agree with me that news
like that would not only most certainly be good; but also cause for
celebration, and ecstatic happiness.
_

Webers.Home · Dec 7, 2022

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Jesus' Star

The verse below is deliberately misquoted. Watch for the revision.

• Matt 2:2 . . Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have
followed his star from the east

No, they didn't follow Jesus' star from the east; rather, they saw it in the
east.

Jerusalem was a logical destination seeing as how it was Israel's capital city.
Personally I think the wise men fully expected to find the new king quartered
right there in Jerusalem rather than elsewhere; so their inquiry "where is he"
was probably not meant for asking directions to another town.

• Matt 2:9 . . After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the
star they had seen in the east went ahead of them.

They likely thought they had seen the last of that star back home, so it was
very reassuring to see it again; and this time as a guiding light rather than a
sign.

• Matt 2:10 . . When they saw the star, they were overjoyed.

NOTE: As the earth turns, stars appear to move across the sky from the east
towards the west. Here is a star that moved south, and also came to a stop;
which should alert planetariums that it wasn't an astronomical object.

• Matt 2:9 . . It stopped over the place where the child was.

Nobody had precision astronomical instruments back then; so it would've
been a challenge finding the exact house over which the object hovered. Try
it sometime. Find a dark-sky location and, using only your eyes, see if you
can pick out the star that is precisely over your head.

Normal stars are so far out in space that it is nigh unto impossible to tell the
exact spot on earth where one of them is at any given moment without
special instruments; so I think we can be reasonably confident that this star
was low enough that there was no mistaking the exact house where young
Jesus was lodged. In other words; this star wasn't a star, rather, it was a
God-given apparition.

Now this is curious. The shepherds were given no guide. They had to
conduct a house to house search for baby Jesus; and their target was
different too. The shepherds went looking for a savior whereas the wise men
were seeking a sovereign. Plus the wise men were educated, whereas the
shepherds likely weren't; and the wise men were wealthy and privileged
whereas shepherds were just cow pokes; so to speak.

FAQ: How the wise men knew their star was associated with the Jews?

REPLY: Well; Matt 2:12 strongly suggests to me that their entire odyssey
was micro-managed by God from start to finish so that when the men
spotted the star back home in the east, they were at the same time
informed by God as to its purpose and urged to pack up and head for the
land of Israel; specifically the city of Jerusalem because that's always been a
sort of Washington DC for David's dynasty.

I think the wise men fully expected to find the young king there because
they didn't inquire as to where he'd be born, rather: where is he that "is
born" because they were sure in their own minds that he was already out
and about even before they left home.
_

Webers.Home · Dec 7, 2022

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Jesus' Taxation

• Luke 2:1-6 . .In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census
should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that
took place while Quirinius was governing in Syria.) And everyone went to his
own town to register.

. . .So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to
Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of
David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married
to him and was expecting a child.

The distance from Nazareth in the north, to Bethlehem in the south just
outside Jerusalem, is about 68 line-of-sight miles, and roughly 93 road
miles. So the journey on a donkey's back would be no picnic; especially for a
woman in her final trimester and ready to pop any minute.

I don't know why artists always depict Mary traveling those 93 miles on
donkey-back when the mode of transportation isn't mentioned. Personally, I
don't think Joseph and his fiancée traveled to Bethlehem alone anyway, but
rather, in the company of their kin just as they did when Jesus was 12 years
old. (Luke 2:41-45) Seeing as how Mary and Joseph were of the house and
lineage of David, then their kinfolk would've been too.

In Mary' condition, the padded bed of a wagon makes far more sense than
the back of an animal; and no doubt Joseph's and Mary's relatives pooled
their resources and made sure she was comfortable.

* Luke 2:1-2 states: "And it came to pass in those days that a decree went
out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This
census first took place while Quirinius was governing Syria."

Mr. Quirinius (a.k.a. Cyrenius) is an historical figure. His name is mentioned
in Res Gestae-- The Deeds of Augustus, by Augustus --placing Quirinius as
consul as early as 12 BC.

The Roman historian Tacitus mentions that Quirinius was appointed by
Augustus to be an advisor to his young son Caius Caesar in Armenia.

Quiinius didn't become a Governor till around 6 CE which appears to make
the dating of the taxation several years after Jesus was already born.
However, Quirinius, though not the Governor, was governing in Syria in a
capacity that we today might call a bureaucrat.

The first century historian Josephus wrote: "Quirinius, a Roman senator who
had gone through other magistracies, and had passed through them all until
he had become consul, was appointed governor of Syria by Caesar and was
given the task of assessing property there and in Judea."

Webster's defines a consul as: an official appointed by a government to
reside in a foreign country to represent the commercial interests of citizens
of the appointing country.

NOTE: We can get by with naming this discussion "Jesus' Taxation" because
according to Heb 7:9-10, unborn children pay taxes too.
_

Webers.Home · Dec 7, 2022

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Herod

• Matt 2:7-8 . .Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them
the exact time the star had appeared. He sent them to Bethlehem and said,
"Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report
to me, so that I too may go and worship him.

Well; the visitors might've returned had not God intervened.

• Matt 2:11-12 . . And having been warned in a dream not to go back to
Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

That was a safety measure to prevent Herod from knowing where to find the
lad because rulers in that day were typically Machiavellian, tyrannical, and
despotic-- they didn't just crush potential threats to their power; they utterly
annihilated it; and as subsequent events demonstrate, ol' Herod had neither
conscience nor concern for child welfare.

* Saddam Hussein's first order of business upon taking control of Iraq was
to order the executions of some of his closest supporters because they
weren't totally onboard with his ideals. Kim Jong-Un is suspected of ordering
the murder of his uncle for similar reasons.

• Matt 2:16a . .Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise
men, was exceeding wroth

There's really nothing in the story to even remotely suggest that the wise
men made a fool out of Herod and/or jeered him. They simply failed to
comply with his wishes; which in his mind wasn't merely refusal of his
request, but a failure to take him seriously.

* The book of Genesis tells of "mighty men: men of old, men of renown".
Their Hebrew word describes bullies, i.e. men whose ambition is not only to
rule people, but to quite dominate them and own their souls. For bullies like
that, people aren't fellow human beings; instead they're assets and
commodities.

• Matt 2:16b . . He sent forth, and slew all the children that were in
Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under,
according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

The Greek word for "coasts" is a mite ambiguous. It technically indicates
borders, but can also indicate regions and/or environs and surrounding
areas.

That verse is commonly appropriated to calculate Jesus' age relative to when
the wise men visited him and his mother. But the verse merely indicates the
passage of time since Herod interviewed the men; which is quite useless for
calculating Jesus' age seeing as how he was already born before the men
even left their country-- how long before they left their country, nobody
knows for sure.

• Matt 2:17-18 . .Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was
fulfilled: "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel
weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because they are no
more." (Jer 31:15)

Ramah was roughly six miles north of Jerusalem, while Bethlehem is roughly
the same distance south in the opposite direction.

Ramah was settled by the people of Rachel's biological son Benjamin, so that
any weeping done by the mothers in that area would be reckoned, by
heritage, to be Rachel's weeping.

What this suggests to me is that the slaughter of the innocents extended
beyond the community of Bethlehem. Were we to set a draftsman's compass
to a radius equal to the distance from Jerusalem to Bethlehem, and scribe a
circle, it would yield a pretty good idea of the area covered by Herod's death
squads.

But Herod's efforts were futile. Jesus wasn't even in the country; Joseph had
moved the child and his mother down into Egypt before all the killing began
(Matt 2:13) and in time, Herod died and his danger to Jesus' survival died
with him. (Matt 2:19-23)
_

Webers.Home · Dec 7, 2022

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Mary's Atonements

• Luke 2:22-25 . .And when the days for their purification according to the
aw of Moses were completed, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present
him to the Lord (as it is written in the law of The Lord: "Every first-born
male that opens the womb shall be consecrated to the Lord" and to offer a
sacrifice according to what was said in the law of The Lord: "A pair of
turtledoves, or two young pigeons."

The days of purification for a boy baby are a total of 40 days.

• Lev 12:1-4 . .Then The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: Speak to the sons of
Israel, saying: When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she
shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall
be unclean. And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be
circumcised. Then she shall remain in the blood of her purification for thirty
three days; she shall not touch any consecrated thing, nor enter the
sanctuary, until the days of her purification are completed.

(It looks like 41 days but what would be the 41st day is actually the day the
mommy goes to the Temple with her offerings.)

The low dollar-value of Mary's offerings attest to her and Joseph's status as
low-income Israelis.

• Lev 12:6-8 . .And when the days of her purification are completed, for a
son or for a daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the doorway of the tent
of meeting, a one year old lamb for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon or
a turtledove for a sin offering. Then he shall offer it before The Lord and
make atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her
blood.

. . .This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female. But
if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young
pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the
priest shall make atonement for her, and she shall be clean.

Too many Gentiles are quick to assume Mary's offerings prove she was a
sinner; but one of those birds was for Jesus in lieu of the lamb that the law
mandates for redeeming boy babies; so then, if Mary's offering proves she's
a sinner; then by association, the offering for Jesus proves the very same
thing.

• Ex 13:11-13 . .After The Lord brings you into the land of the Canaanites
and gives it to you, as He promised on oath to you and your forefathers, you
are to give over to The Lord the first offspring of every womb. All the
firstborn males of your livestock belong to The Lord. Redeem with a lamb
every firstborn donkey, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem
every firstborn among your sons.

Josephs' wife brought those offerings for herself and Jesus because that is
what the law of The Lord mandates; and it doesn't matter whether a woman
is a sinner or a non-sinner nor whether the baby is a sinner or a non-sinner.
It would have been sin for Jesus' mother to disobey that law, and would
have put her baby in jeopardy of its life. She had to bring the birds for her
and Jesus simply because it was the right thing to do.

Another case in point of "the right thing to do" is John the Baptist. His
mission was a baptism unto repentance (Matt 3:11). Did the Lord need
repentance? No; but he submitted himself to John's baptism because it was
the right thing to do since John's mission was God-given.

• Matt 3:13-15 . .Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized
by John. But John tried to deter him, saying; I need to be baptized by you,
and do you come to me? Jesus replied; Let it be so now; it is proper for us
to do this to fulfill all righteousness. Then John consented.
_

Webers.Home · Dec 7, 2022

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Jesus' Fathers

Christ is unusual because he's the progeny of two fathers: the one natural
and the other supernatural.

• Luke 1:30 . .Then the angel said to her: Do not be afraid, Mary, for you
have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear
a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son
of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his
father.

Jesus is sometimes described as a demigod, i.e. a singular amalgam of
human and divine, i.e. 50% god and 50% human.

But Jesus isn't a 50/50 singularity. He's actually a 100/100 plurality, i.e.
according to John 1:1-3, John 1:14, 1Cor 15:45-47, and 1John 1:1-2, Jesus
exists as an eternal spirit being whose origin is currently unknown, and as a
temporal material being whose origin can be easily traced from David all the
way back to the dust from which Adam was created, viz: Jesus exists as the
creator and as a creation simultaneously.

This is possible due to the fact that when The Word of John 1:1-3 came into
the world in human form per John 1:14, he didn't lose his life in the process;
no, The Word cannot die because his life is life itself. (John 1:4 & 1John 1:1
2)

This particular construct is not only nigh unto impossible to comprehend, but
also unpopular among quite a few Christians. They're usually okay with
Jesus as fully God and fully Man, but not as two distinct individuals. They'd
rather Jesus be God and Man as one person rather than the Son of God and
the Son of Man retaining their own identity-- the one a natural being, and
the other a supernatural being.

* Caution: this is a hot button topic, so it's my advice that folks avoid
getting into debates over it because the discussion will likely turn into a
perpetual food fight that never gets to the bottom of anything.
_

Amosathar · Dec 8, 2022

I find it interesting that you're talking a lot about Jesus and things that surrounded him that are related to Christmas, yet you use the secular Xmas in your title like the world does when they want to avoid using the word Christ in Christmas

Cameron143 · Dec 8, 2022

Question: as you went through your explanation of genealogy, it seemed to suggest that Jesus received DNA from Mary. If so, wouldn't Jesus have been born with a sin nature inherited through Adam?
Matthew 1:20 doesn't suggest this, but that which was conceived was by the Holy Ghost.
There are a number of issues that arise if Jesus actually inherited a sin nature in conception or that He didn't but received DNA from Mary.

Webers.Home · Dec 8, 2022

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The so-called fallen nature is believed to be propagated by parents. Oh?
Then whence did Eve obtain it?

She was already alive and fully constructed with material taken from Adam's
body prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after
his wife was already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass
the fallen nature to her by means of his body.

In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I
seriously doubt it because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she
did, nothing happened. She remained just as shameless in the buff as
before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that Eve began to feel exposed; so
I'm pretty sure that the underlying source of man's fallen nature is far more
serious than the chemistry of that fruit.

FAQ: If Eve's altered moral perception wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to
Adam's body, then what?

REPLY: Mr. Serpent is the logical source, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) He has
the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human
body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16,
Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

So then; it was only a simple matter of keeping the Serpent's paws off Christ
in order for him to be born free of the problem.

* I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting blame
away from himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to believe
parents propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the Serpent all along.
Jesus' statement: "You are of your father the Devil" wasn't idle slander;
rather, it was 100% fact. (John 8:44)

How he has managed to deceive so many people for so long a time I don't
know, but what's really ironic about it is that there are people behind pulpits,
and chairing whole Sunday school departments, helping him do it as
unsuspecting accomplices; which goes to show that if an idea is repeated
often enough, widely enough, and loud enough by people held in high
enough esteem; pretty soon it's accepted by the masses as fact without
thought or question. (a.k.a. the Asch Conformity Phenomenon)

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong;
Gives it a superficial appearance of being right.
(Thomas Paine)
_

ZNP · Dec 8, 2022

What about all the other Christmas stories?

1. Santa (signifying Satan) comes as a thief in the night. When you wake up you discover that you have traded an eternal weight of glory in Christ's kingdom for a bunch of junk from the mall that is sitting under this tree that dates back to Babylonian worship of a type of the AntiChrist.

2. How about the mockery of the rapture with the story of a magic chariot visiting every house on Earth in contrast to the chariot that Elijah was taken up in and Elisha saw.

3. How about the worship of material things taught during this festival with the "letter to Santa" being a lesson on prayer for material things. Year after year teaching the children that their life needs to be focused on some doll, some toy, or some thing your parents can buy for you.

4. But above all that the lesson that those who you trust are in fact lying to you. The entire farce about Santa ultimately being discovered by your kids and giving them the lesson to associate these lies with Jesus. Most kids think that the Santa Stories and "Christmas" stories like Rudolph are all in the Bible too.

5. Then of course if you dare to speak against this holiday you must be "Scrooge" who hates little crippled kids or the Grinch "whose heart is too small".

Amosathar · Dec 8, 2022

Sin came from Adam's disobedience because he was the one put in charge of the earth as it's caretaker, that is why they both noticed they were naked only after he ate because He was the one instructed by God never to eat that fruit from that tree, so he knew he shouldn't eat, but did it anyway thus calling all mankind to follow to be born into sin. The reason Jesus was born without sin is because he had no earthly father and sin is passed down through the male lineage because of Adam's disobedience. Luke 1:35 tells us that the Most High overshadowed Mary, logically this would have created the seed that would of given Jesus the Y chromosome. So Jesus would then be both the Son of man and the Son of God.

Moses_Young · Dec 9, 2022

Cameron143 said:

I thought the sin nature was only passed down by males. Hence, Jesus was the "seed of the woman". Descended from Adam so He could be our kinsman redeemer, but He didn't inherit the sinful nature, as this is only passed down by the man.

I thought this symbolism was also the reason only males were required to be circumcised? Foreskin represents the sinful nature, the seed of Adam, which needs to be removed from the male before he produces offspring. Females don't need circumcision, as they don't pass on the sinful nature.

Cameron143 · Dec 9, 2022

Moses_Young said:

I thought the sin nature was only passed down by males. Hence, Jesus was the "seed of the woman". Descended from Adam so He could be our kinsman redeemer, but He didn't inherit the sinful nature, as this is only passed down by the man.

I thought this symbolism was also the reason only males were required to be circumcised? Foreskin represents the sinful nature, the seed of Adam, which needs to be removed from the male before he produces offspring. Females don't need circumcision, as they don't pass on the sinful nature.

Romans 5 says says death was passed to all men...for that all have sinned...

Moses_Young · Dec 9, 2022

Cameron143 said:

Yes, but not all pass on the sinful nature. That's why Jesus is referred to as the "seed of the woman" (Genesis 3:15). Women get their sinful nature from their (Earthly) fathers. But the women don't pass it down. So Jesus, not having an Earthly father, was sinless, but yet still fully man - our kinsman redeemer - the "seed of the woman".

Cameron143 · Dec 9, 2022

Moses_Young said:

That's an assumption. It clearly says that which is conceived in her is conceived of the Holy Spirit. Technically, women have no seed. It points to a supernatural line. We see this in the line of Abraham...the seed. It's not the seed of Sarah.

Moses_Young · Dec 9, 2022

Cameron143 said:

Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. "

Eve's seed - the seed of the woman - is Jesus.

Cameron143 · Dec 9, 2022

Moses_Young said:

2 things:
1. Women don't have seed so it's not literal
2. When a woman becomes pregnant it is common to say she conceived. God makes a point to say it was the Holy Spirit

Moses_Young · Dec 10, 2022

Cameron143 said:

I probably won't convince you in this thread, so I will leave with this.

1. Both males and females contribute to the conception of children. So how Jesus was conceived certainly aligns with the description "seed of the woman", as no man was involved.
2. Women conceive via means of a husband (man). The scripture is clear that in Mary's case, there was no man involved - she conceived by the Holy Spirit.

That Jesus was fully man and fully God is doctrinally necessary. A kinsman redeemer had to be a relative of the one for whom he was redeeming. Jesus redeemed us - He needed to be our relative - the second Adam, in order to die in our place. And who can forgive sins but God alone? Jesus forgave sins and accepted worship, in addition to many miracles and rising from the dead.

Fully man and fully God. This is the miracle and the mystery of the Incarnation.

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