Soul Sleeping? What does scripture say happens to us when we die.

[massorite]

This is why we don't determine doctrine on once instance of scripture. No place else are we told of resurrected saints but in Matthew. No place else is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus but in Luke. They could well be pointing to something very different. Either it all fits together or we don't try to decipher.

New Testament references to two or more witnesses:

John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true." Jesus' own words!

Matt. 18:16 "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."

2 Cor. 13:1 "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

There might be only one parable of Lazarus and the rich man. But many other places where the lower parts of the earth and their names are spoken of and other places were people who are dead and are asleep are spoken of. Which means that there is lots of scripture that lines up with the doctrine of Soul Sleep. So all of those scriptures that line up with the doctrinal belief of Soul Sleeping.
What your reply is doing here is doubt casting on the very words of Christ as if Christ didn't know what He was talking about and
Ms. mailmandan is doing the same thing. No matter how much scripture I gave her she simply refused to believe in those scriptures. Folks like you both do an injustice to other bible student by not researching scripture as you should and basing your opinion not on what scripture says but on ignorance. In the case of Ms. mailmandan she is using a tainted and corrupted bible. If one verse has been corrupted, all of the bible she is use has been corrupted.
And you haven't provided a single scripture that proves Soul Sleep is directly contradicted. Ms,mailmandan hasn't either.

 

[EleventhHour]

There might be only one parable of Lazarus and the rich man. But many other places where the lower parts of the earth and their names are spoken of and other places were people who are dead and are asleep are spoken of. Which means that there is lots of scripture that lines up with the doctrine of Soul Sleep. So all of those scriptures that line up with the doctrinal belief of Soul Sleeping.
What your reply is doing here is doubt casting on the very words of Christ as if Christ didn't know what He was talking about and
Ms. mailmandan is doing the same thing. No matter how much scripture I gave her she simply refused to believe in those scriptures. Folks like you both do an injustice to other bible student by not researching scripture as you should and basing your opinion not on what scripture says but on ignorance. In the case of Ms. mailmandan she is using a tainted and corrupted bible. If one verse has been corrupted, all of the bible she is use has been corrupted.
And you haven't provided a single scripture that proves Soul Sleep is directly contradicted. Ms,mailmandan hasn't either.

I think you are wrong on that.
Scriptures have been provided.
Clear as day!!


New King James Version
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
2 Cor 5:8

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

There might be only one parable of Lazarus and the rich man. But many other places where the lower parts of the earth and their names are spoken of and other places were people who are dead and are asleep are spoken of. Which means that there is lots of scripture that lines up with the doctrine of Soul Sleep. So all of those scriptures that line up with the doctrinal belief of Soul Sleeping.
What your reply is doing here is doubt casting on the very words of Christ as if Christ didn't know what He was talking about and
Ms. mailmandan is doing the same thing. No matter how much scripture I gave her she simply refused to believe in those scriptures. Folks like you both do an injustice to other bible student by not researching scripture as you should and basing your opinion not on what scripture says but on ignorance. In the case of Ms. mailmandan she is using a tainted and corrupted bible. If one verse has been corrupted, all of the bible she is use has been corrupted.
And you haven't provided a single scripture that proves Soul Sleep is directly contradicted. Ms,mailmandan hasn't either.

Hang on. Mailmandan is a man. It's in the name. Mailman Dan. And which bible are you labeling corrupt?

 

[EleventhHour]

Hang on. Mailmandan is a man. It's in the name. Mailman Dan. And which bible are you labeling corrupt?

Funny ... I was thinking to do the same.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Hang on. Mailmandan is a man. It's in the name. Mailman Dan. And which bible are you labeling corrupt?

This is absurd.....

 

[Deade]

There might be only one parable of Lazarus and the rich man. But many other places where the lower parts of the earth and their names are spoken of and other places were people who are dead and are asleep are spoken of. Which means that there is lots of scripture that lines up with the doctrine of Soul Sleep. So all of those scriptures that line up with the doctrinal belief of Soul Sleeping.
What your reply is doing here is doubt casting on the very words of Christ as if Christ didn't know what He was talking about and
Ms. mailmandan is doing the same thing. No matter how much scripture I gave her she simply refused to believe in those scriptures. Folks like you both do an injustice to other bible student by not researching scripture as you should and basing your opinion not on what scripture says but on ignorance. In the case of Ms. mailmandan she is using a tainted and corrupted bible. If one verse has been corrupted, all of the bible she is use has been corrupted.
And you haven't provided a single scripture that proves Soul Sleep is directly contradicted. Ms,mailmandan hasn't either.

You are disagreeing with the wrong fellow. I fully believe in soul-sleep. Go back and read my post #108. My last paragraph states:

So, are our loved ones already with Christ? If they have to be resurrected at His coming—they must not be. I believe our lost loved ones are asleep; they have no awareness of time.

I simply was addressing Matthew 27:51,52 as being a single reference as to resurrected saints. Like you said it never says where they go after roaming the city. I believe this is one instance where scripture was messed with. We have other controversial scriptures that also suggest corruption. I mean, look who had control of all the ancient manuscripts through the dark ages.

 

[Deade]

I think you are wrong on that.
Scriptures have been provided.
Clear as day!!


New King James Version
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
2 Cor 5:8

When you go to sleep at night, is it not like "Presto - it's morning?" So, your scripture proves nothing. Here are some scriptures that tell us the sleeping state of the dead:

Nobody is in heaven or hell yet! I believe the dead are asleep. Paul may have said: To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto - it is morning. It is the same principal.

Nobody is in heaven yet: John 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." They are asleep.

Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."

Acts 2:34, 35: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool."

All the OT patriarchs are mentioned in Heb.11 and none of them have received their reward yet.

Want more?
Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”

Psalms 6:5: “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”

Psalms 30:9: “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?”

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Isaiah 38:18: “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.”

Psalms 88:10-12: “Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

 

[EleventhHour]

This is absurd.....

What do you mean?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

What do you mean?

To think Dan is a girl... somebody is looking for attention.

 

[EleventhHour]

When you go to sleep at night, is it not like "Presto - it's morning?" So, your scripture proves nothing. Here are some scriptures that tell us the sleeping state of the dead:

Nobody is in heaven or hell yet! I believe the dead are asleep. Paul may have said: To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. OK, to close your eyes at night: presto - it is morning. It is the same principal.

Nobody is in heaven yet: John 3:13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." They are asleep.

Acts 2:29: "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."

Acts 2:34, 35: "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool."

All the OT patriarchs are mentioned in Heb.11 and none of them have received their reward yet.

Want more?
Ecclesiastes 9:5,6: “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.”

Psalms 6:5: “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”

Psalms 30:9: “What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?”

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Isaiah 38:18: “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.”

Psalms 88:10-12: “Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

Psalms 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

Mr. Deade.... you are subconscious when you sleep not unconscious

No scripture states the soul sleeps upon death. Sleep is in reference to the body.

 

[EleventhHour]

To think Dan is a girl... somebody is looking for attention.

Or not paying attention!!

 

[Deade]

Mr. Deade.... you are subconscious when you sleep not unconscious

No scripture states the soul sleeps upon death. Sleep is in reference to the body.

Satan whispered into Eve's ear "Ye shall not surely die" in the Garden of Eden (see Gen. 3:4). He is still whispering it to Christians everywhere. Not one of us is immortal yet. God is doing something quite different than your mother Catholic Church has passed to you. I am here simply to state the truth not to persuade anyone. If God doesn't convict you against your false teaching you won't convert. It is time for those He calls to "Come out of her" (Rev. 18:4).

 

[EleventhHour]

Satan whispered into Eve's ear "Ye shall not surely die" in the Garden of Eden (see Gen. 3:4). He is still whispering it to Christians everywhere. Not one of us is immortal yet. God is doing something quite different than your mother Catholic Church has passed to you. I am here simply to state the truth not to persuade anyone. If God doesn't convict you against your false teaching you won't convert. It is time for those He calls to "Come out of her" (Rev. 18:4). View attachment 212945

What do you think immortal means?

The fact that the soul in your belief enters a sleep state suggests some type of immortality....otherwise when the body died so would the soul where consciousness resides ...no need for a sleep state.

 

[Deade]

What do you think immortal means?

The fact that the soul in your belief enters a sleep state suggests some type of immortality....otherwise when the body died so would the soul where consciousness resides ...no need for a sleep state.

Do you not know that God has promised to resurrect everyone? Rev. 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." When God says something, it is as good as calling it a done deal.

That is very good news, because it means nobody is yet completely condemned. Tradition tells you God is trying to save as many as He can before the end of the age. That is nonsense! God does not try anything and even predicts most will not make the cut this first time. You know: "Broad is the road to destruction." Everything is going according to His great plan.

Here is a scripture for you that suggests only Christ has immortality at this time, then the called saints in this era: 1 Cor.15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

Then comes the Great White Throne Judgment, a period of time when our Lord will deal with the rest of the dead. And no, He is not going to resurrect them just to shake His finger at them and turn around and destroy them. Most people have no idea how to serve our Lord in this first life. They are deceived by Satan (see Rev. 12:9). BTW - Nobody burns forever.

 

[massorite]

Hang on. Mailmandan is a man. It's in the name. Mailman Dan. And which bible are you labeling corrupt?

Do you not know that God has promised to resurrect everyone? Rev. 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." When God says something, it is as good as calling it a done deal.

That is very good news, because it means nobody is yet completely condemned. Tradition tells you God is trying to save as many as He can before the end of the age. That is nonsense! God does not try anything and even predicts most will not make the cut this first time. You know: "Broad is the road to destruction." Everything is going according to His great plan.

Here is a scripture for you that suggests only Christ has immortality at this time, then the called saints in this era: 1 Cor.15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

Then comes the Great White Throne Judgment, a period of time when our Lord will deal with the rest of the dead. And no, He is not going to resurrect them just to shake His finger at them and turn around and destroy them. Most people have no idea how to serve our Lord in this first life. They are deceived by Satan (see Rev. 12:9). BTW - Nobody burns forever.

Yes I figured out my mistake but it was to late.
'

 

[massorite]

As you wish.

LOL You still haven't produced one single scripture to prove your right. But there comes a time when one should realize that no matter h how many scriptures are put in front of your face, your going to deny those scriptures no matter what.

 

[massorite]

You are disagreeing with the wrong fellow. I fully believe in soul-sleep. Go back and read my post #108. My last paragraph states:


I simply was addressing Matthew 27:51,52 as being a single reference as to resurrected saints. Like you said it never says where they go after roaming the city. I believe this is one instance where scripture was messed with. We have other controversial scriptures that also suggest corruption. I mean, look who had control of all the ancient manuscripts through the dark ages. View attachment 212944

Yes I did disagree with the wrong person but it was to late to edit when I realized my mistake.
I was talking about Ms. EleventhHour.
Sorry about that.

 

[massorite]

Hang on. Mailmandan is a man. It's in the name. Mailman Dan. And which bible are you labeling corrupt?

I did apologize to Mr. mailmandan. I don't know which bible version is corrupted as Ms. EleventhHour hasn't said which bible she is reading from. But what ever the bible version it is corrupted because in my KJV and several other bibles the word "standing" is not in Luke 16:23
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
The words "in his bosom" are speaking abou t a person who is laying their head into the chest of another person to be comforted and such is the case with Lazarus. Nothing here about standing at all.
The phrase bosom of Abraham occurs only once in the New Testament, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in the gospel of Luke (Luke 16:22). Leprous Lazarus is carried by the angels to that destination after death. Abraham's bosom contrasts with the destination of a rich man who ends up in Hades (see Luke 16:19-31). The account corresponds closely with documented 1st century AD Jewish beliefs (see above), that the dead were gathered into a general tarrying-place, made equivalent with the Sheol of the Old Testament. In Christ's account, the righteous occupied an abode of their own, which was distinctly separated by a chasm from the abode to which the wicked were consigned. The chasm is equivalent to the river in the Jewish version, but in Christ's version there is no angelic ferryman, and it is impossible to pass from one side to the other.

The unique phrase found in a parable of Jesus describing the place where Lazarus went after death ( Luke 16:19-31 ). It is a figurative phrase that appears to have been drawn from a popular belief that the righteous would rest by Abraham's side in the world to come, an opinion described in Jewish literature at the time of Christ. The word kolpos [kovlpo"] literally refers to the side or lap of a person. Figuratively, as in this case, it refers to a place of honor reserved for a special guest, similar to its usage in John 13:23. In the case of Lazarus, the reserved place is special because it is beside Abraham, the father of all the righteous. The phrase may be synonymous to the paradise promised to the thief on the cross ( Luke 23:43 ). Together these passages support the conviction that a believer enjoys immediate bliss at the moment of physical death.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I did apologize to Mr. mailmandan. I don't know which bible version is corrupted as Ms. EleventhHour hasn't said which bible she is reading from. But what ever the bible version it is corrupted because in my KJV and several other bibles the word "standing" is not in Luke 16:23
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
The words "in his bosom" are speaking abou t a person who is laying their head into the chest of another person to be comforted and such is the case with Lazarus. Nothing here about standing at all.
The phrase bosom of Abraham occurs only once in the New Testament, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in the gospel of Luke (Luke 16:22). Leprous Lazarus is carried by the angels to that destination after death. Abraham's bosom contrasts with the destination of a rich man who ends up in Hades (see Luke 16:19-31). The account corresponds closely with documented 1st century AD Jewish beliefs (see above), that the dead were gathered into a general tarrying-place, made equivalent with the Sheol of the Old Testament. In Christ's account, the righteous occupied an abode of their own, which was distinctly separated by a chasm from the abode to which the wicked were consigned. The chasm is equivalent to the river in the Jewish version, but in Christ's version there is no angelic ferryman, and it is impossible to pass from one side to the other.

The unique phrase found in a parable of Jesus describing the place where Lazarus went after death ( Luke 16:19-31 ). It is a figurative phrase that appears to have been drawn from a popular belief that the righteous would rest by Abraham's side in the world to come, an opinion described in Jewish literature at the time of Christ. The word kolpos [kovlpo"] literally refers to the side or lap of a person. Figuratively, as in this case, it refers to a place of honor reserved for a special guest, similar to its usage in John 13:23. In the case of Lazarus, the reserved place is special because it is beside Abraham, the father of all the righteous. The phrase may be synonymous to the paradise promised to the thief on the cross ( Luke 23:43 ). Together these passages support the conviction that a believer enjoys immediate bliss at the moment of physical death.

I can't find 'standing' in any one of 7 translations I've searched.

I'm not convinced of soul sleep because of that though.
The rich man was in torment and Lazarus was comforted. Both comfort & torment seem to indicate some form of awareness.

 

[EleventhHour]

LOL You still haven't produced one single scripture to prove your right. But there comes a time when one should realize that no matter h how many scriptures are put in front of your face, your going to deny those scriptures no matter what.

I am not denying I am following scripture.
People who believe in "soul sleep" are reading into scripture that is very obvious.