Sound Doctrine is not popular today

[crossnote]

Yeah we spoke on this as well how some churches instead of ministers feeding the flock, we have clowns entertaining monkeys !!!

Right and I think that is the aim of the thread...not to fight each other over specific doctrinal issues we happen to disagree with.

 

[KennethC]

My biggest complaint with churches I have visited thus far and the messages I have received while there are that the whole activity seems to be more about getting people in the pews than it does to actually share the Gospel with them.

Now, I know I'm a weird guy so what works for me probably wouldn't work for someone else but:

If a fire-and-brimstone preacher was to shake an old finger at me and tell me I was wallowing in sin and needed to immediately repent and beg Jesus for his saving grace...that would go a lot farther with me than a flabby handshake and a chocolate chip cookie and tepid coffee.

There should be a balance of both Grace and warnings in the preaching behind the pulpit, it should never be just one sided.

This is why we get people thinking none of the warnings in the bible apply to believers, because all they hear is Grace and not the many warnings that sin still poses !!!

Thus they are lead in a false sense of security and not the true assurance that only comes in Christ, and thus end up thinking that even when they fall away they are still saved.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Doctrine in general is downplayed.
We are too much into Church growth bending over backwards to give the visiting adult kiddies a fun and 'relevant' time.
Don't bring up sin and judgment and other icky things as that will scare off the people (interpreted as $$).
Don't bring up specific sins as that is so judgmental and not politically correct.
Keep the pablum running with videos and clown acts that'll keep their attention and the fun seekers coming.
Don't dive into doctrinal issues, that is just something they fought over in the 17th century.
I'm OK, you're OK unless you fail to smile.

I think this is the gist of the OP, not what is the 'perfect doctrine'.

What guys like you never understand, Crossnote, is how old and passe all that first century doctrine stuff is, how we've moved on. Got to have that anointing!

[video=youtube;PTCiMxPz2Qg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCiMxPz2Qg[/video]​

Furthermore, if Benny Hinn can't bring back Reverend Ike, it's about time for a Joel Osteen theme park at Disneyland, that is as long as he remains faithful, doesn't frown and crack his face.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Behavior certainly does matter...
[video=youtube;yPFZv08ZCoY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPFZv08ZCoY[/video]

Here Farley teaches the lie that behavior doesn't matter in regards to salvation, because such would make it a works-based salvation. He creates the straw man that doing things (behavior) is required to earn or keep salvation, and then knocks it down. What he doesn't cover is that sinning (also behavior) will definitely affect one's fellowship with GOD, and worst case, it will forever cut one off from GOD. Jesus said that many in the end will think that they did GOD's will, but will be denied entrance into his glory because they were lawless, i.e., did not do GOD's will, which forbids sinning.

 

[crossnote]

God's Word should be sufficient.
If people come for other reasons fine but the Churches basic duty is to feed and equip the sheep.

 

[KennethC]

Right and I think that is the aim of the thread...not to fight each other over specific doctrinal issues we happen to disagree with.

I know and I try not engage, as I still need to work on withdrawing myself !!!

When I left the church in my teens and did not return tell I was 25, God by His Holy Spirit told and showed me exactly what my ending would have been if I remained in that lost state. And it was not a pretty picture of eternal life !!!

 

[KennethC]

What guys like you never understand, Crossnote, is how old and passe all that first century doctrine stuff is, how we've moved on. Got to have that anointing!

[video=youtube;PTCiMxPz2Qg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCiMxPz2Qg[/video]​

Furthermore, if Benny Hinn can't bring back Reverend Ike, it's about time for a Joel Osteen theme park at Disneyland, that is as long as he remains faithful, doesn't frown and crack his face.

What, I hope I am not reading you right !!!

Are you trying to say what the Church taught in the 1st Century is out of date now ???

That is what passe means, and if that is what you are saying then you are in some very dangerous teaching.

What was taught in the 1st Century is just as much valid today, and Jesus teachings have never been done away with. They have only been built on and expounded from in the teachings by Paul !!!

What Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are just as valid today as they were then !!!

 

[JesusIsAll]

What, I hope I am not reading you right !!!

Are you trying to say what the Church taught in the 1st Century is out of date now ???

That is what passe means, and if that is what you are saying then you are in some very dangerous teaching.

Your sense of humor is dead, too? Seems like another personal problem.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What guys like you never understand, Crossnote, is how old and passe all that first century doctrine stuff is, how we've moved on. Got to have that anointing!

[video=youtube;PTCiMxPz2Qg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCiMxPz2Qg[/video]​

Furthermore, if Benny Hinn can't bring back Reverend Ike, it's about time for a Joel Osteen theme park at Disneyland, that is as long as he remains faithful, doesn't frown and crack his face.

Joel Osteen and Oprah Winfrey. Now that would be a wiener!

 

[crossnote]

What guys like you never understand, Crossnote, is how old and passe all that first century doctrine stuff is, how we've moved on. Got to have that anointing!

[video=youtube;PTCiMxPz2Qg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCiMxPz2Qg[/video]​

Furthermore, if Benny Hinn can't bring back Reverend Ike, it's about time for a Joel Osteen theme park at Disneyland, that is as long as he remains faithful, doesn't frown and crack his face.

This is sickeningly sad and is a result of those that shun sound doctrine. What is sadder is those laughing in the audience e.g. at the 3:50 min mark.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Joel Osteen and Oprah Winfrey. Now that would be a wiener!

Brilliant! Could have Preachers Gone Wild in the New Age! Throw in the Pope and whoever the raghead Grand Panjandrum is (could require a long sorting process, or maybe have to wait to see who's left alive that wears a Rolex...), and we could have a Lake of Fire Cruise Lines.

 

[JesusIsAll]

This is sickeningly sad and is a result of those that shun sound doctrine. What is sadder is those laughing in the audience e.g. at the 3:50 min mark.

As I recall, there are those here who actually defend the ringmasters under that big top. Somebody made a comment about spiritual discernment, or lack thereof, that was spot on.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Brilliant! Could have Preachers Gone Wild in the New Age! Throw in the Pope and whoever the raghead Grand Panjandrum is (could require a long sorting process, or maybe have to wait to see who's left alive that wears a Rolex...), and we could have a Lake of Fire Cruise Lines.

I can just see it now. The grand finale at years' end where Oprah and Joel appear onstage together and do a Vulcan mind meld with each other, which miraculously conjures up a holographic Dr. Spock behind them blessing them with his Kabbalistic hand sign! The crowd would go absolutely wild!

 

[KennethC]

Your sense of humor is dead, too? Seems like another personal problem.

That did not come acrossed as if you were joking, the way you wrote it seemed like you were serious.

Sorry if I misunderstood, but that is why I asked a question to make sure, and instead of be respectful and answer you come back with insults !!!

 

[Willie-T]

My biggest complaint with churches I have visited thus far and the messages I have received while there are that the whole activity seems to be more about getting people in the pews than it does to actually share the Gospel with them.

Now, I know I'm a weird guy so what works for me probably wouldn't work for someone else but:

If a fire-and-brimstone preacher was to shake an old finger at me and tell me I was wallowing in sin and needed to immediately repent and beg Jesus for his saving grace...that would go a lot farther with me than a flabby handshake and a chocolate chip cookie and tepid coffee.

This is more than understandable. It is the "I need to be punished" guilt trip that many churches have perpetuated because it is so difficult, for even those preachers, to accept something from God that we don't deserve. I think that, without "surrender", it is much more difficult to simply accept God's forgiveness than it is to earn it by "taking our punishment like a man." And we do that through the ritual we have created of penitence. Penitence is something that is initiated by our actions. We get to be the active one when we take it upon ourselves to "cause" God to forgive us because of our actions in getting all hang-dog looking, and doing what we have learned to be an approved procedure for us to enact. And that can range from simple asking for forgiveness each time, through the more advanced Catholic ritualistic Confessional scene, right on up to the Spanish pilgrims beating and cutting themselves. No matter how we couch it, this is still us doing something (making our sacrifice) in order to appease the deity, and thus prove ourselves worthy of being forgiven.

Simply telling God we are sorry for doing it again... and thanking Him that He has forgiven us, not for our proof of feeling bad today, but because of what Jesus did 2,000 years ago... is so difficult to just swallow and do, that it is a near impossibility for many people.

It is ten times harder to just thank God for His gift, knowing how much we want to demonstrate (probably just to ourselves) our sorrow. Jesus said to just tell Him... confess it. I'm pretty sure He isn't too impressed when we try to upstage His work on the cross.

 

[KennethC]

I can just see it now. The grand finale at years' end where Oprah and Joel appear onstage together and do a Vulcan mind meld with each other, which miraculously conjures up a holographic Dr. Spock behind them blessing them with his Kabbalistic hand sign! The crowd would go absolutely wild!

Oprah is a shame !!!

She clearly stated that Jesus is not the only way to heaven, and it is so sad so many follow her and that new age church she belongs to. They are going to be in for a rude awaking at judgment if they don't come out of that false church !!!

 

[JesusIsAll]

That did not come acrossed as if you were joking, the way you wrote it seemed like you were serious.

So I asked a question to make sure, and instead of be respectful and answer you come back with insults !!!

Sorry. It was just a matter of if the shoe fits, or if it walks like a duck. But never mind. I don't want to interrupt your working out your eternal insecurity and doubts. You know, trying to drag other people into that won't help anything. You'll still be stuck with the Catholics, trying to work it out, in vain.

 

[KennethC]

Sorry. It was just a matter of if the shoe fits, or if it walks like a duck. But never mind. I don't want to interrupt your working out your eternal insecurity and doubts. You know, trying to drag other people into that won't help anything. You'll still be stuck with the Catholics, trying to work it out, in vain.

I do not agree with Catholic doctrine so please don't go there, I am always exposing the falsehoods taught in it.

I also do not defend the likes of Olsteen and Oprah, nor do I defend a number of other ministers that teach falsely or live lifestyles that are not acceptable by the Word of God.

 

[PeterJens]

I have to say a lot of people are ignorant of Catholic theology.

The reason why the Pope and Kenneth Copeland are able to get together because their doctrines of original sin, hell, and being saved are very similar. A priest can bind and set free, forgive sins, and withhold sacrements without which people will be caste out.

What is amusing is those who say hyper-grace is against religion and they are happy to cosy up with the most religious group in christianity and then say this makes spiritual sense. It shows how lunatic and off the wall this spirituality really is.

 

[Mec99]

Once Saved Always Saved is a True Doctrine. We cannot lose our Salvation based on our sins because we never received Salvation based on us not sinning.

So tell me Kennethc how can we lose our Salvation if its a Gift from God based on Faith from Him and Grace from Him?

We cannot lose our Salvation. BUT, we can lose out on our Rewards in Heaven if we keep on practicing our sins.