Speak Your Mind, dealing with homosexuality, sorry for the length of the topic :)

[sondra333]

Good morning everyone,
There is something that has been troubling me very much, and has weighed so heavily on my heart for some time now, and i hope that Lord you will give me the words but also speak to everyone's heart that decides to read this for i must confess Jesus i am afraid to speak.... For i know that i could be not only picked apart, but also i could hurt someone with these words of mine when i am trying so very hard to reason with my brethren. For so long i just accepted my condemnation and i only wanted to be accepted and loved by You Father, and also by Your Son and yes i must admit also loved by my brethren so temper my words Lord Jesus and let them not only see my heart, but also that i sincerely mean no harm Thank you Lord Jesus and thank you Father. I will just jump right in and start with what has been troubling me so much.... I was watching some videos on youtube and one caught my eye about a pastor that was telling his congregation to kill all lesbians and gays, and when i watched in horror that he indeed says this to his congregation i then notice video after video of very similar requests from pastors all over the country one went so far as to state that they should come up with 100 miles sq. and put up an electric fence placing the lesbians on one side and the gays on the other, and then once in awhile drop down food for them and after some time they will all die and that will be the end of homosexuality. First of all something that is i'm sure thrown into gay people's faces is that who is having the homosexual babies for after all homosexuals can't procreate remember? Again i was nauseated to realize that this behavior goes on in of all places God's house, His church, i know that not everyone of course preaches in this manner and thank you Heavenly Father for that... but after seeing these pastors that is when i finally decided to reason with Scripture where before i just accepted it at face value. So here goes... A lot of Christians believe that marriage was created by God for Adam and Eve therefore (heterosexuals) were to be the only realationship that was what God had ordained, and then also the act of procreation seemed to also determine this with the scripture of go forth be fruitful and multiply. Okay after i had read this scripture again i noticed that God had first brought His other creations (animals) forth to Adam to be named but also to see if there was a help meent for him, and when none was found God said it is not good for man to be alone and that is when He placed Adam under a deep sleep and then He took from Adam the rib that He then created Eve with and when Adam was presented with Eve, he stated flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone for this she will be called woman for she was taken out of man, and that is when God had stated for this reason man shall leave father and mother and cleave unto his wife. That word wife is why a lot of people believe that God had created marriage, the only thing i disagree with here is that i interpret it as when adam had spoken all of his words it is then that God talked of marriage to adam as a blessing if you will, for if God had truly meant to create marriage all along then why the animals? Also notice the singular use of man and wife it is not men and wives, and also the scripture of go forth be fruitful ... i found that our Father had repeated those same words to Noah, and a lot of people would say of course that it was due to the flood, but yet i again interperted it as another blessing from God, because when has God ever repeated Himself especially in a command that was meant for all of mankind? For even Jesus did not repeat the commandments He actually summed them up into two. Also look at the fact that God had found favor upon Noah for he was quite literally the last man on earth that followed and was obedient unto God, so again why did He repeat Hisself if it were truly a command and not a blessing? For if it were a command then surely Noah would have been obedient unto God as he was on all other things, following God's will. It is here where some will speak of the procreation issues of first how only heterosexuals can procreate and He created them both male and female, thereby proving that God had intended marriage to only belong to heterosexual relationship. Well the first thing that made me think upon was if they had not eaten of the fruit would they have being perfect children in the garden procreated? For i noticed that it did not happen until the fruit was eaten and they were cast out, for i could believe that God would have been pleased with just the two of them for after all how many billions of stars are in the universe and yet we can't reach them which to me is to show us how rare and precious we all are to our Father. So yes i could see a world being created for two, but don't missunderstand me of course God knew they would fall, and take a moment to consider this... Eve was taken from Adam which for me says that out of the biological make-up of adam God took what He needed to create Eve, which to me says that Adam had the potential to either be the male that God had created him to be or the female that God had taken out of Adam and created with Eve, so could there be more to the scripture of the twain will become one flesh, now i pray that you who are reading will give me a little room here please.... We could say that the "Eve" potential that adam had was for instance dormant but please forgive me for i don't wish to hurt or harm or especially anger anyone, but is it truly such a stretch to recognize that perhaps in a man that isn't dormant you could possibly see how though he was created male he had felt female all of his life or homosexuality? And also what do we judge in regards to say hormorphidites? Those who are created both with male and female organs, (which to me shows that on a biological level hormorphidites prove that potential and what i am trying to say here) once i was speaking to a gentleman on here in regards to this and his response was if they have what is needed to carry a child, then i do not care what is hanging there they are female. My first reaction i must admit was not well for when i asked the ?, and what do we JUDGE i had hoped for better, and then i thought... well okay maa'm you heard what he said so go on and shave that beard and mustache off, and also you need to let your hair grow out, and please don't work out so much whether it be lifting weights or work or both just makes you a little too manly if you catch my meaning, and lastly here is your dress.... I told you that i didn't not react well at first. I will also bring up the story of Sodom and Gomorrah which is widely believed to be the end all and tell all of God's hatred towards homosexuality, the Lord visited and held a conversation in regards to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah with Abraham and by the end of the conversation Abraham had pretty much pleaded with the Lord starting at not destroying them if there be 50 righteous and he continued this until it was then ten righteous and the Lord agreed if there was 10 righteous among them He would not destroy the two cities. This is where the angels who were disguised as men came upon Lot, and Lot offered for them to come into his home for he would was their feet, they could tarry all night and then early in the morning they could be on their way, to which at first the angels said Nay we will abide in the street all night. Lot then pressed hard upon them to again come into his home and it is then that they did, and they did enjoy a feast, but before the men layed down it is then told that the men of Sodom (Old, young, of every quarter) surrounded the home and yelled inside to Lot that the men he had welcomed into his home to bring them out for they wished to know (sexual contact) them. And it is here that Lot basically tells them that they can have his two daughters that have not known men and to do with them whatever they saw as good, but the men to not do so wickedly for they were under the shadow of my roof. And once again they essentially pressed against the man (angel) and Lot even to break the door after speaking of how they will do worse unto Lot then these men (angels). It is here where the angels strike them blind to where they were basically worn out looking for the door, and they inform Lot to gather his son-n-laws that married his daughters, and his family for they are going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah it goes on but the main sticking point for a lot of people is that the final straw (or sin) for God was homosexuality for the men had wanted to have sex with the men or angels as we know.... Well again i interpert it a little different for instance the daughters if they had been accepted we all should realize that it would have not been just rape but a gang rape, and yet for some unknown reason if the men had been also placed out into the crowd would it not have been rape, gang rape as well? For if you call this a homosexual rape which i guess you could but i honestly don't know why we would for then every time a man rapes a woman in the world will we refer to it as a heterosexual rape? And i also didn't see any mention of the homosexual sin by God or the angels that were going to destroy those two cities Sodom and Gomorrah. I also have not found in the words in red that were spoken by Jesus in regards to homosexuality, and i will give one example of why we should reason when Peter rebuked Jesus from the cross Jesus said "Get thee behind me Satan, for you want the things of man not of God" A pretty serious mistake that was done right in front of the Lord although Peter knew He was the Messiah. I have made pretty serious mistakes many times but again though i have not written a fair amount of scripture either, so please reason with me....May Lord Jesus His peace and Love be upon us all.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Once again, I couldn't even read this all. Here's a tip: for all future long posts you make, consider using paragraphs to make it easier to read. You'll get more replies that way too, because alot of people here don't bother reading walls of text such as this. Whereas if the post is broken into paragraphs, they will be more likely to read it and give comments.

 

[sondra333]

Once again, I couldn't even read this all. Here's a tip: for all future long posts you make, consider using paragraphs to make it easier to read. You'll get more replies that way too, because alot of people here don't bother reading walls of text such as this. Whereas if the post is broken into paragraphs, they will be more likely to read it and give comments.

I wish to thank you once again sister for the advice can't tell that i just woke up one day and finally decided to actually try to do something on the computer ohh only about 20-25 years to late! lol anyway thank you again for the tip i appreciate it take care

 

[Joidevivre]

1. God hates (considers detestable) homosexual acts – Lev. 18:22

I just don't see anywhere in the bible where it is considered okay with God. You can reason it out anyway you want to. But, I take God's heart on it as pretty much accurate. He has His own reasons for making such a statement.

That is not to say that he does not love the ones who do these acts, nor should they be condemned by Christians.

He also hates divorce (Mal. 2:14), yet we don't seem to accept it better. He also hates lying (Prov. 6:17). Many more things actually.

We all fall short of pleasing God in so many ways, and are struggling every day to work it out. Even though grace covers a multitude of sins, and His mercies are over all those who belong to Christ, we still try to do those things that do not grieve him. It does mean dying to self in so many ways, and living only to please him.

I do believe some people are born with a part of their sex organs not developed and soon realize they are really the opposite sex. I feel for them, and don't feel the verse in Lev. is addressing such a problem.

Sister, thank you for sharing your thoughts - and shame on those videos you saw. That should not be. My own granddaughter is living a lesbian lifestyle - I don't preach to her, but love her unconditionally as Jesus does. She knows the scriptures - I let the understanding and application of them be given to her by the Holy Spirit. The only thing I continually pray for her is that she be led into a deeper relationship with Jesus. Everything is better understood from that place. And in that place, she is totally accepted by God who sees the righteousness of Christ covering her.

 

[sondra333]

1. God hates (considers detestable) homosexual acts – Lev. 18:22

I just don't see anywhere in the bible where it is considered okay with God. You can reason it out anyway you want to. But, I take God's heart on it as pretty much accurate. He has His own reasons for making such a statement.

That is not to say that he does not love the ones who do these acts, nor should they be condemned by Christians.

He also hates divorce (Mal. 2:14), yet we don't seem to accept it better. He also hates lying (Prov. 6:17). Many more things actually.

We all fall short of pleasing God in so many ways, and are struggling every day to work it out. Even though grace covers a multitude of sins, and His mercies are over all those who belong to Christ, we still try to do those things that do not grieve him. It does mean dying to self in so many ways, and living only to please him.

I do believe some people are born with a part of their sex organs not developed and soon realize they are really the opposite sex. I feel for them, and don't feel the verse in Lev. is addressing such a problem.

Sister, thank you for sharing your thoughts - and shame on those videos you saw. That should not be. My own granddaughter is living a lesbian lifestyle - I don't preach to her, but love her unconditionally as Jesus does. She knows the scriptures - I let the understanding and application of them be given to her by the Holy Spirit. The only thing I continually pray for her is that she be led into a deeper relationship with Jesus. Everything is better understood from that place. And in that place, she is totally accepted by God who sees the righteousness of Christ covering her.[/QUOTE Thank you for your thoughts on what i had written but i am beginng to believe that perhaps although i do realize their are many "scripture" that depicts God hating and considering homosexuality an abomination but what i am not certain now is that was it really God speaking or perhaps prophets that are heterosexual that to their very core or biological make-up are completely disgusted with homosexuality acts which as i said makes sense for they are not, because as i said in regards to Sodom and Gommorah it is very simply rape, not homosexual sex. Also how long has the interpertation of the last straw for God to bring about the destruction of these two cities has been homosexuality? Christians has had that viewpoint since Genesis? And yet as i stated i guess we could refer to it as homosexuality rape but why would we? We don't in regards to a man raping a woman or vice versa it is just simply rape, also i didn't see anywhere that the "sin" of homosexuality is mentioned. Although i am sure that the two cities greived the Lord very much for even the one to be saved his family as well the son's-n-law took Lot for mocking the wife looked back, and then his two daughters had committed not only incest but rape of Lot their father as well so yes i see where His wrath came from, but i would like to have scripture that we know came from either God or Jesus speaking. As i said the words in red i was not able to find any reference to it. Also i must admit that the main thing that really concerns me about homosexuals is there is a very strong presence of just simply flat out fornication, and i must admit that i have committed this as well when i was young. But i too am concerned about the gay community inevitably turning away from God because they are gay and have felt this way since as long as they can remember, and yet when they finally open up and accept their feelings they are told sometimes in a loving manner but mostly not that God hates that it is a sin. So some turn away because as i stated they always felt like this and still do, and to them it is natural, but once again i also realize their could be an enviromental factor for a lot of gays usually suffered some childhood abuse, myself included. So i am intelligent enough to also not entirely rule this out as well, but again if you would please let me know if you find anything that the Lord had said in regards to this, for as i stated i do also realize that the example of Peter for instance is after all the whole reason why we are to reason about the "scriptures." Once again i thank you sister for your response and you are one of the good ones to treat your granddaughter as you do, and i thank you for that as well, and if i could ask you to please pray for me in regards to keep me not only from being decieved but also i would hate it if it really boils down to my own agenda....for i so desperately want to please Him and i don't want that to be it... God bless you hon