What seems audacious to me is the claim that a sign gift that was clearly intended for those unbelievers present at pentecost (hearing in their native tongues) is today being hailed as a sign for those who supposedly believe. Why would a believer desire "self-edification" if he truly already believes and trusts in his own salvation ? Being validated was never an issue for the believers present at pentecost. But it certainly was validated by the hearing of those who weren't believers. You personally may not "need" validation from anybody. But if an unbeliever is not validated (convicted) by what you claim and practice, it is not serving God's intended purpose. Audacious, don't you think ?
Speaking in Tongues (Privately, Outside of Church)
- Thread starter BenFTW
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What seems audacious to me is the claim that a sign gift that was clearly intended for those unbelievers present at pentecost (hearing in their native tongues) is today being hailed as a sign for those who supposedly believe. Why would a believer desire "self-edification" if he truly already believes and trusts in his own salvation ? Being validated was never an issue for the believers present at pentecost. But it certainly was validated by the hearing of those who weren't believers. You personally may not "need" validation from anybody. But if an unbeliever is not validated (convicted) by what you claim and practice, it is not serving God's intended purpose. Audacious, don't you think ?
Everything that Jesus Christ said and did during His sojourn on earth was, is and shall forevermore be validated. His miracles .. His own death and resurrection .. His love for us .. everything. If His words and works on our behalf were not validated (seen and understood), from where and how could our faith and trust in Him be warranted ? Anybody can claim to do and be something. But if our Lord and Saviour saw fit to validate His claims of Who He was and is on and for our behalf, should less be expected of us when making such claims ..i.e.. tongues ? Truth needs no validation ... but claims of truth do and always will.
Kavik wrote,
I hope you are more careful if you write academic linguistic papers. You should at least write that you are unaware of any recordings that were shown to be human languages. There was a recording of a Polish girl speaking in tongues in English on YouTube a few years ago. I think it was Pnuema review that had an article up about a certain Lutheran seminary that wasn't Charismatic that had a documented case in their library.
I hope you are more careful if you write academic linguistic papers. You should at least write that you are unaware of any recordings that were shown to be human languages. There was a recording of a Polish girl speaking in tongues in English on YouTube a few years ago. I think it was Pnuema review that had an article up about a certain Lutheran seminary that wasn't Charismatic that had a documented case in their library.
BenFTW -
Why is it that you two put forth a challenge for believers to speak in tongues at your command, which in fact, it is the Spirit giving the utterance unto our spirit? How audacious, wouldn't you consider it to be? This is likened to you practically saying, "Spirit give them words so that I may see if your gift is genuine." Believers do not seek, nor do they need, your validation.
There is no challenge in what I’m saying in the quote above – it’s simply stating fact. If you mean a previous post where I ask if a person has recorded themselves speaking and then listened to it, again, that’s not a challenge; For anyone to do so would be an observation – a closer, in-depth look at what the speaker is actually producing.
Presidente -
I hope you are more careful if you write academic linguistic papers. You should at least write that you are unaware of any recordings that were shown to be human languages. There was a recording of a Polish girl speaking in tongues in English on YouTube a few years ago. I think it was Pnuema review that had an article up about a certain Lutheran seminary that wasn't Charismatic that had a documented case in their library.
Yes, I saw that video maybe a few years ago, actually – when it comes to English and Europeans though, and even just English, I have to take anything shown with a huge grain of salt; English is a required language in elementary schools in Poland. You have to take two foreign languages; one is typically always English, the other is a choice of about three different ones. In high school, I believe a foreign language is required, but I don’t think it has to be English.
The point is, for a European kid not to know some English, they’d have to be living in a cave somewhere shut off from the world. Even in Eastern Europe, English is just too common and widely used.
If you look at the transcription, her sentences are in broken English. They’re very short and very repetitive.
I have tried tracking down that article - any idea when it was published?
Why is it that you two put forth a challenge for believers to speak in tongues at your command, which in fact, it is the Spirit giving the utterance unto our spirit? How audacious, wouldn't you consider it to be? This is likened to you practically saying, "Spirit give them words so that I may see if your gift is genuine." Believers do not seek, nor do they need, your validation.
There is no challenge in what I’m saying in the quote above – it’s simply stating fact. If you mean a previous post where I ask if a person has recorded themselves speaking and then listened to it, again, that’s not a challenge; For anyone to do so would be an observation – a closer, in-depth look at what the speaker is actually producing.
Presidente -
I hope you are more careful if you write academic linguistic papers. You should at least write that you are unaware of any recordings that were shown to be human languages. There was a recording of a Polish girl speaking in tongues in English on YouTube a few years ago. I think it was Pnuema review that had an article up about a certain Lutheran seminary that wasn't Charismatic that had a documented case in their library.
Yes, I saw that video maybe a few years ago, actually – when it comes to English and Europeans though, and even just English, I have to take anything shown with a huge grain of salt; English is a required language in elementary schools in Poland. You have to take two foreign languages; one is typically always English, the other is a choice of about three different ones. In high school, I believe a foreign language is required, but I don’t think it has to be English.
The point is, for a European kid not to know some English, they’d have to be living in a cave somewhere shut off from the world. Even in Eastern Europe, English is just too common and widely used.
If you look at the transcription, her sentences are in broken English. They’re very short and very repetitive.
I have tried tracking down that article - any idea when it was published?
Presidente -
I hope you are more careful if you write academic linguistic papers. You should at least write that you are unaware of any recordings that were shown to be human languages. There was a recording of a Polish girl speaking in tongues in English on YouTube a few years ago. I think it was Pnuema review that had an article up about a certain Lutheran seminary that wasn't Charismatic that had a documented case in their library.[/quote]
Yes, I saw that video maybe a few years ago, actually – when it comes to English and Europeans though, and even just English, I have to take anything shown with a huge grain of salt; English is a required language in elementary schools in Poland. You have to take two foreign languages; one is typically always English, the other is a choice of about three different ones. In high school, I believe a foreign language is required, but I don’t think it has to be English. [/quote]
I think the audio was supposed to have been from the early 1990s. I don't know what the policy was on teaching English then.
I haven't lived in Europe, but from what a European friend has told me, what you write is exaggerated.