If people would be accountable for their own behavior and deal with the sin in their lives, they also wouldn't need deliverance.
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T
Tintin
Guest
Well, no. But I don't think we need to know the ins and outs of demons etc. to know that we're victorious against them by Jesus righteous blood. Also, I don't remember any time in the Bible where there are specific demons for specific things. Even "Legion" refers to a large number of demons, not one specific demon. I'm not advocating that we ignore talk of demons but I also think we should avoid an unhealthy fixation on them.
J
jinx
Guest
your right, it just opens "conversations" between us and spiritual darkness that we don't need in our lives.
Well, sadly the Blue Letter Bible quotes KJV, not the early manuscripts. It is NOT in verse 22 in the earliest version which were much closer to the time of Christ than the manuscripts used by the translators of KJV.
Besides which, Blue Letter goes from English back to Greek. A better tactic is to go from Greek to English.
So try this one:
Ephesians 5:22 Greek Texts and Analysis
If you look at the Greek Orthodox and Byzantine, you will find hypotassio, but they are later and considered unreliable texts. Because the Greeks like to add things to the text.
And King James himself had certain ideas about the place of women, the place of pretty much anyone, (Divine Right of Kings was part of his heritage!!) and so he made sure the translators only used the manuscripts which he wanted. Erasmus was a Catholic priest who was trying to translate the Bible correctly, but the Catholic church would not allow him to change things from Jerome's poor translation of the Vulgate, and the KJV committee used a lot of Erasmus and did not know that it was a corrupted version of the Bible.
No submit in the original of Ephesian 5:22
A little more on the errors in the KJV. It is not just about Eph. 5:22
Why Does the King James Bible Have Some Different Verses Than Modern Translations? – Justin Taylor
Textus Receptus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
D
danschance
Guest
Well, I knew I needed deliverance and yes there was sin in my life. I was involved in things no christian should be. Then again, I was not a christian at that point. My home became haunted. My family witnessed some bizarre things and I knew with out a shadow of doubt, I needed help. I knew I possessed by a demon. Twice I was attacked by a demon.
I had no idea where to turn so I went to see a priest. I knew I had a chance of them believing me. The priest helped me but it wasn't until I entered into a protestant deliverance ministry that my demon problem got addressed That was 5 years ago. God has been healing me and cleaning me up in ways I never dreamed possible.
There are many people who could be helped by deliverance but satan has done a good job convincing the church that Christians can't be demonized or even that demons do not exist. The vast majority of pastors have never cast out a single demon or encountered one even though demonized people faithfully attend their church services weekly. Even so, God is sovereign and none of His sheep falls thru the cracks.
J
jinx
Guest
don't give me wrong, I believe in demons/angels and such, but it's the name of JESUS buy a spirit filled man of GOD speaking peace over that persons life that delivers people. not holy water, special chants in latin, or classes to teach you how to over come. the name of JESUS is what we need in our lives.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
D
danschance
Guest
All I know is that all major translations say the same thing, more or less. You alone are saying things that contradicts them all. I don't know what your credentials are in koine Greek, but I trust that they all used their best judgement in translating the bible accurately. The claim that it is mistranslated is the same claim the Jehovah's Witnesses use in John 1:1. I don't buy into their claims either.
Here is one article which disagrees with your position. The Myth of "Mutual Submission" by Wayne Grudem
Have you noticed how it says to submit yourself to your OWN husband as to the Lord. I wonder if the message is really about faithfulness?
In any relationship the woman has to 'submit' so why mention it? Paul is talking about marriage and comparing it to our life with Christ and the church and men submit to Christ as well but not all remain faithful.
For the man to love his wife means to be faithful to her as well.
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J
jinx
Guest
so we can like this scripture where it says OWN husband but not the one that says " i suffer not a woman to authority over men"
splitting hairs aint we?
splitting hairs aint we?
I thought the implicit thought about being faithful was a nice thought that is applied equally to the men who were told to love their wives. Again it speaks of faithfulness and contented families.
The KJV reads 1Ti 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man." I suppose the same could be said about a man who shouldn't usurp authority over his wife in the running of the house?
Anyway the verse begins, "I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man"
So it reads to me as though it was Paul's opinion, and if that is the case I suppose it can be ignored like it often is these days.
Now watch the sparks fly.
Friends?
J
jinx
Guest
so, now it depends on who writes it regardless if GOD spoke through that person or not, and we some 2000 years after the fact can determine who GOD did this through or not.
really?
really?
How do you know God didn't inspire me, because truthfully the thought about being faithful to your OWN husband as unto the Lord, just came into my head and bearing in mind the number of times we read in the Bible "the Lord said" and remembering that Paul used the pronoun "I" then perhaps my comment carries some weight.
And I am a Spirit filled Pentecostal, I see you are Pentecostal as well.
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D
danschance
Guest
I thought the implicit thought about being faithful was a nice thought that is applied equally to the men who were told to love their wives. Again it speaks of faithfulness and contented families.
The KJV reads 1Ti 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man." I suppose the same could be said about a man who shouldn't usurp authority over his wife in the running of the house?
Anyway the verse begins, "I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man"
So it reads to me as though it was Paul's opinion, and if that is the case I suppose it can be ignored like it often is these days.
Now watch the sparks fly.
Friends?
I understand it to be Paul's opinion. Even so it is also scripture. I do not believe God would allow opinions that are contrary to Godly principals and theology to enter His word. Even if it is just and only opinion, would you not play it safe and follow his advice just because you would not want to risk being wrong and offending God?
[h=3]1 Timothy 5[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
5 Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father, and the younger men as brethren,
[SUP]2[/SUP]the elder women as mothers, the younger as sisters, in all purity.
[h=3]Proverbs 1:8[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother;
[h=3]Philippians 4:3[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women who labored with me in the Gospel, with Clement also and with my other fellow laborers, whose names are in the Book of Life.
[h=3]Judges 4:4[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time.
[h=3]2 Kings 22:1421st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asaiah went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college), and they communed with her
Acts 9:36[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha (which interpreted is called Dorcas). This woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
[h=3]Romans 16:3[/h]Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[h=3]Greeting to Roman Christians[/h][SUP]3 [/SUP]Give my greetings to Prisca[SUP][a][/SUP] and Aquila, my coworkers in Christ Jesus,
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
5 Rebuke not an elder, but entreat him as a father, and the younger men as brethren,
[SUP]2[/SUP]the elder women as mothers, the younger as sisters, in all purity.
[h=3]Proverbs 1:8[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother;
[h=3]Philippians 4:3[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women who labored with me in the Gospel, with Clement also and with my other fellow laborers, whose names are in the Book of Life.
[h=3]Judges 4:4[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time.
[h=3]2 Kings 22:1421st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asaiah went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college), and they communed with her
Acts 9:36[/h]21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha (which interpreted is called Dorcas). This woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did.
[h=3]Romans 16:3[/h]Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[h=3]Greeting to Roman Christians[/h][SUP]3 [/SUP]Give my greetings to Prisca[SUP][a][/SUP] and Aquila, my coworkers in Christ Jesus,
[h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
- Romans 16:3 Traditionally, Priscilla, as in Ac 18:2,18,26
C
CDavid
Guest
Rush Limbaugh coined a term that more accurately describes the women's movement. They are "Feminazis".
The German Nazis blamed the Jews for all things wrong, believed the world would be a better place without Jews, and considered themselves to be superior to all other people.
The Feminazis blame men for all things wrong, consider themselves superior, and believe the world would be a better place without men.
The German Nazis murdered six or eight million innocent people, in the concentration camps.
Feminazis murder 1.2 million each year in abortion clinics. Four decades sense Roe V. Wade, this comes to 48 million innocent babies murdered.
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
As I said, Genesis 3... "Your desire shall be for your husband" which would be more accurately put "to rule over your husband". The desire women have to rule their husbands, and to rule the church is a result of the fall, and we see the great lengths they will try to go, by propping up lofty arguments.
On a more humorous note, if we're going to be posting propoganda and citing wikipedia, then I think General Whiskers needs some new recruits.
I think Paul was playing it safe. The reason was that in the culture of the day women did not have the same education as the men and the services in the synagogue were in a different language (Hebrew?) from the everyday Koine Greek and because the women did not understand they used to chatter between themselves. Paul had to admonish them for it as we know and he also told the women to ask their husbands when they got home.
Paul had very good reasons at that time which are not valid today.
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I have to agree with you on Wikipedia. But it was the best source I could find. Which I guess means not too many good sources on the Internet! So I will instead quote what the Bible has to say about this topic in the future, unless it is historical or something like that!
As far as men ruling over the wives, whatever word you use, it is the truth. AFTER THE FALL!!
Fortunately, we have been redeemed from the FALL! AMEN!! So the old ways have passed away!
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way ofthe Spirit and not in the old way of the written code" Romans 7:6
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." 2 Cor. 5:17
We are no longer under the curse of the law. Or would you put women back under the curse? Just curious!
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
The curse of the law is the condemnation it brings having transgressed it. The law itself is not a curse.
1 Timothy 1:8
We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
Lawlessness is becoming a common theme here.