stealing from ourselves

[Jullianna]

Have you ever been in a relationship where you did some things you knew to be wrong, but convinced yourself otherwise? And then you lost it? Did you tell yourself that the relationship must not have been right for you or it would have worked out?

What if that is a lie? What if sin was the reason you lost it? What if you had done it God's way? Would you still have lost it? Sin steals from us, doesn't it?

EXAMPLE: Stats tell us that if we live together before marriage, we up the likelihood of divorcing by 50%.

These are questions I've been asking myself for a couple of days. Answers I need. I don't want to repeat my past mistakes, but it's so easy to do, isn't it?

Help me learn, Lord. Some lessons can be very costly. Help me let my faith pull the strings of my life, not sin. Give me wisdom.

 

[Stuey]

All to easy to deceive yourself. All too easy to believe your own lies.

I've still got damage from my last relationship and that was over two years ago now. All self inflicted.

*shrug*

 

[LightningClap0002]

I don't have much time now, but wanted to get some thoughts out there; I'll try to expand on this later.

I'm not sure that I would blame specific sins for relationships ending. We aren't punished for our sins any longer. That said, sins as a whole are the enemy of love. Whether it's one sin repeatedly, or just a general sinful attitude, they will result in destroyed relationships and general pain. For some time now I've been of the opinion that it is not beneficial to wonder if doing things different would have provided a different outcome. The hypotheticals can be fun, but I found after a while there really was no benefit in it.

You know your past, you know what is good. What is in your past may help you more quickly identify what is NOT good, but in doing, your past has helped your present. Without the help in your past, you would not be able to have your present.

Don't be afraid, sin can hurt you, but God can and will heal all pain. He has great plans for you; plans to prosper you and not to harm you. And God's plans can not be thwarted, one day the devil will learn that in a powerful way.

God bless you and give you strength!

 

[psychomom]

Have you ever been in a relationship where you did some things you knew to be wrong, but convinced yourself otherwise? And then you lost it? Did you tell yourself that the relationship must not have been right for you or it would have worked out?

What if that is a lie? What if sin was the reason you lost it? What if you had done it God's way? Would you still have lost it? Sin steals from us, doesn't it?

EXAMPLE: Stats tell us that if we live together before marriage, we up the likelihood of divorcing by 50%.

These are questions I've been asking myself for a couple of days. Answers I need. I don't want to repeat my past mistakes, but it's so easy to do, isn't it?

Help me learn, Lord. Some lessons can be very costly. Help me let my faith pull the strings of my life, not sin. Give me wisdom.

Not to take away from your (very beautiful) post, Julianna, but I do so want to give that little girl in the picture a sandwich...
-ellie

 

[zeroturbulence]

Have you ever been in a relationship where you did some things you knew to be wrong, but convinced yourself otherwise? And then you lost it?

Sounds to me like someone may have been expecting too much from the relationship or from the other person.

 

[Pen014]

i like to joke these are my confessions...because only someone like usher could make confessing sin sound romantic.

 

[Relena7]

I've never made bad relationship mistakes (still happily with my first BF). But not because I'm some great example of a person who never sins.... more that I'm kind of boring and unadventurous because of being in a mental prison of always wanting to be in control of my life.

And not control in the good way. In the bad way where it stops me from doing even some good things that aren't sins.

I feel like I've stolen from myself anyway cause of this.

 

[nw2u]

Have you ever been in a relationship where you did some things you knew to be wrong, but convinced yourself otherwise? And then you lost it? Did you tell yourself that the relationship must not have been right for you or it would have worked out?

What if that is a lie? What if sin was the reason you lost it? What if you had done it God's way? Would you still have lost it? Sin steals from us, doesn't it?

EXAMPLE: Stats tell us that if we live together before marriage, we up the likelihood of divorcing by 50%.

These are questions I've been asking myself for a couple of days. Answers I need. I don't want to repeat my past mistakes, but it's so easy to do, isn't it?

Help me learn, Lord. Some lessons can be very costly. Help me let my faith pull the strings of my life, not sin. Give me wisdom.

Yes, I have sinned while in a relationship. I did not convince myself it was not a sin. I felt, if it was okay with her, everything was fine. Yes, I lost the relationship of a lifetime. I did not tell myself anything about the relationship other than, "I blew it. I thought I knew her. I thought I knew myself. I thought we were okay. I thought I understood love."

I'm sure any sin I committed had something to do with me losing my marriage. As for God punishing me? I don't know. It may have ended for me no matter what. She grew as her business grew. She would not and/or could not share this with me. Sin steals my confidence. Sin steals whatever good may come from the relationship. Only through the grace of God are we able to overcome our adversities.

There is very little real commitment in today's relationships. In the west, we live in a throw away society. If something doesn't work. we get a new one. We are encouraged today to live in sin. It's not that this wasn't an issue throughout history, it's that we, as God fearing/loving individuals have less tolerance for others sins. We take them on our own shoulders and believe we must do something about them. We must make a statement, somehow. That is not our responsibility. We must be happy and healthy and live in a manner which provides the best opportunity for happiness and good health. This means loving God and our neighbors. It doesn't mean judging and punishing. Although, in a healthy society, we must make and keep just laws, while providing for penalties when these laws are broken.

Reading over what I have written, I realize I do not have anything figured out. It is a shame. I have found that the folks who are doing well, have found a way to love their neighbors. They may be fornicating but, it is not an issue for them. I do not do this. I may never again enter the dating world. What I do realize is, I don't know much at all. The best I can do is pray for you and myself. I will do that in Jesus name.

 

[violakat]

I have a friend who broke up with his fiance due to a lie for covering up something. He felt that if she could not trust him with the truth, then there was not telling what she would hide from him.

 

[Jullianna]

By no means do I want it to seem as though I am blaming another person for anything here. I’m talking about our OWN personal accountability. MINE. There may be people who enable us or who desire to take advantage of our weaknesses; but, in the end, we can still say no. But we don’t because we tend to want what we want when we want it, so we look for explanations (excuses). (Refer back to Stilly’s recent thread.)

And I was wondering whether if we say that a relationship wasn’t God’s will, are we in some way blaming Him for it not working out? What if we are wrong? What if He did want it to work out, but we were either too lazy/stubborn to stick it out or the relationship died from the wounds of our sins? Just like He wants people to come to Him who choose not to do so.

Don’t misunderstand me. I’m a christian and I know that God forgives sin. But I also know we can still have to live with the scars and fruit of our sin in this life in some ways, baggage that God never intended for us to carry. The amazing thing is that ALL things work together for good for those who are in Christ Jesus, if not for us, then for another sibling in Christ. That’s a good thing to know even when we blow it.

There are concepts here that I want to understand. I don’t want to be like the children of Israel who repeated the same wrong things, expecting different results. As the man said, those who don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. We get tired. We get bored. We get lazy. We get selfish. We get impatient. We get stupid. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’d like to have a lot less stupid in my life.

There are a lot of things in this life that sound very pretty and tickle our ears. I’m just wondering whether they are actually true or whether they are self-made pats on the back that keep us from God’s best in our lives.

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

This is something i wrestle with all the time, sometimes on a daily basis to be honest. Especially when things are going so wrong.

10 years ago i was dating a guy who i just thought was the right one, i wanted him to be the right one so bad i ignored all reasoning that told me otherwise we were polar opposites and both of us were pretty messed up, however i was bound and determined to get away from my parents and he was the way i was going to do it. I didnt trust God and i thought i could do a better job at managing my life than he could.

My sin ripped everything apart... i was impatient and i wanted what i wanted, and i didnt want God any where near me because i thought he would mess it all up. Instead my sin did that for me. well i ended up getting what i wanted and it was a nightmare. At the risk of sounding morbid truly i will pay for that sin in my relationship with him for the rest of my life.

I wonder this constantly.... God what did i do.... How would my life be different if i hadnt of did what i did. Lord would i have been better off, would my life had been different for the good if i hadnt of sinned in that way....

Sin has its consequences, If you are his child he will only allow you to stray but so far before coming after you. Sometimes its not pretty when he does..

The last thing i will say is this, Sin will always take you farther than you want to go, im sure all of us can vouch for that. I know mine sure did and because of that i cant help but wonder where would i be if i had just let God take control instead of pushing him out of the way.

 

[jb]

'Love is blind!'

We need to make sure that 'love' for another person does not blind our judgement and commonsense!

Yahweh Shalom...

 

[LightningClap0002]

And I was wondering whether if we say that a relationship wasn’t God’s will, are we in some way blaming Him for it not working out? What if we are wrong? What if He did want it to work out, but we were either too lazy/stubborn to stick it out or the relationship died from the wounds of our sins? Just like He wants people to come to Him who choose not to do so.

What if God wanted me to eat ham today instead of turkey? What if God wanted me to walk on the right side of the road instead of the left? What if God wanted me to sleep in today so that I'd be late and rush through a traffic light so I wouldn't get in an accident from the drunk driver who was going to blow through the stop sign? I'm not trying to mock you, but God is a God of details. He can make any normal circumstance extraordinary. He is a very personal God, knowing and interacting with even the most intimate things about us; shaping minute details into a masterful creation. Our "failures", our successes, they all are used to shape us and teach us. 'Better' with God can only apply to the future. We can do better, we will do better, we want to do better. Whatever happened in the past just was, there is no better for the past.

What if I was less lazy? Well.... maybe you would have pushed him away faster. Maybe you would have pulled him closer and caused him to stumble even greater than he did you... In the end, God knows, and for now He tells us that we can not fathom his plan. Seeking to honor him and obey him is an active command, not a retroactive suggestion.

Is it blaming God? Why would you blame God for being perfect? I say no, you can not blame God for his perfection, or our imperfect understanding.

There are concepts here that I want to understand. I don’t want to be like the children of Israel who repeated the same wrong things, expecting different results. As the man said, those who don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. We get tired. We get bored. We get lazy. We get selfish. We get impatient. We get stupid. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’d like to have a lot less stupid in my life.

There are a lot of things in this life that sound very pretty and tickle our ears. I’m just wondering whether they are actually true or whether they are self-made pats on the back that keep us from God’s best in our lives.

But that's just it! Certainly don't repeat your mistakes, but focusing on the what if's won't help your future. The answer is always "I should have trusted God more, I should have followed God's commands better." I say seek God always, identify your mistakes, and build on them moving forward; there seems no benefit in contemplating them beyond this. God forgave you, wiped your sins away completely. Would He want you to cling to them? Is it maybe like saying "God, I know you forgave me, but look how terrible this thing was. I won't do it in the future, but are you really sure you want to forgive me for it?"

 

[psychomom]

'Love is blind!'

We need to make sure that 'love' for another person does not blind our judgement and commonsense!

Yahweh Shalom...

My wedding day toast--
love is blind.
But marriage is a real eye opener.

 

[Jullianna]

What if God wanted me to eat ham today instead of turkey? What if God wanted me to walk on the right side of the road instead of the left? What if God wanted me to sleep in today so that I'd be late and rush through a traffic light so I wouldn't get in an accident from the drunk driver who was going to blow through the stop sign? I'm not trying to mock you, but God is a God of details. He can make any normal circumstance extraordinary. He is a very personal God, knowing and interacting with even the most intimate things about us; shaping minute details into a masterful creation. Our "failures", our successes, they all are used to shape us and teach us. 'Better' with God can only apply to the future. We can do better, we will do better, we want to do better. Whatever happened in the past just was, there is no better for the past.

What if I was less lazy? Well.... maybe you would have pushed him away faster. Maybe you would have pulled him closer and caused him to stumble even greater than he did you... In the end, God knows, and for now He tells us that we can not fathom his plan. Seeking to honor him and obey him is an active command, not a retroactive suggestion.

Is it blaming God? Why would you blame God for being perfect? I say no, you can not blame God for his perfection, or our imperfect understanding.


But that's just it! Certainly don't repeat your mistakes, but focusing on the what if's won't help your future. The answer is always "I should have trusted God more, I should have followed God's commands better." I say seek God always, identify your mistakes, and build on them moving forward; there seems no benefit in contemplating them beyond this. God forgave you, wiped your sins away completely. Would He want you to cling to them? Is it maybe like saying "God, I know you forgave me, but look how terrible this thing was. I won't do it in the future, but are you really sure you want to forgive me for it?"

I don't want to change the past. I don't want to dwell on the past. I want to learn from it. If I can, then this will be part of the "All things working together for good" part.

I trust God. Always have. It's myself I don't trust sometimes. I'm accepting responsibility for bad choices. Choices I want Him to help me not repeat, as He just has.

 

[LightningClap0002]

I don't want to change the past. I don't want to dwell on the past. I want to learn from it. If I can, then this will be part of the "All things working together for good" part.

I trust God. Always have. It's myself I don't trust sometimes. I'm accepting responsibility for bad choices. Choices I want Him to help me not repeat, as He just has.

I don't doubt your motives, I don't doubt your faith. I've asked your questions myself before. I have been down that road. There are better ways to learn the things we can learn. Even still, there are some things that can not simply be learned; not sinning happens to be one of them. Obedience comes from the heart, not the mind (Romans 6:17).

I know you seek holiness Dianna, I truly was not questioning that.

 

[Jullianna]

I know you know.

It's not so much sin itself that I seek to understand. That's actually the easy part, isn't it? It's relationships with others and the effects they can have on us and vice versa. That's the part I want to understand. How the spiritual is so closely intertwined with who we are and how our lives and the way we live them affect others and they us.

 

[LightningClap0002]

I did touch on that in my initial post; maybe it got lost in the noise. If you understood and just disagreed, I apologize for repeating it.

I believe that trying to divine the consequences of specific sins is meaningless. I don't see any benefit in trying to create a link between something we consider to be "bad" and a sin we've committed. You know, both in your heart and mind, that sin is bad. You have felt pain and we know it is because of sin. In some cases, the "bad" simply exists for the good to be more clearly shown (John 9). In the end, what we deem "bad" very well may be for a far greater good. Perhaps I've taken the wrong message from this verse, but it seems to me that Jesus is saying: "Bad things are in this world, they are a result of Sin(as a whole), but not necessarily A specific sin or sins." If this is accurate, the understanding that can be gained is that Sin leads to pain (which you already understand ). Not only for us, but also those around us. Am I oversimplifying this? Do you see something more going on here?

 

[zeroturbulence]

I know you know.

It's not so much sin itself that I seek to understand. That's actually the easy part, isn't it? It's relationships with others and the effects they can have on us and vice versa. That's the part I want to understand. How the spiritual is so closely intertwined with who we are and how our lives and the way we live them affect others and they us.

Ah, I think I finally know what you're talking about. Let me offer you this perspective (which may or may not be relevant at all, I'm really not sure).

Ok, your life outside a relationship is like a rehearsal. You say to yourself "this time I'm not going to do this", "this time I am going to handle this better", "when this issue comes up I will know how to deal with it", etc... and you build up your confidence waiting for that right person to come along, knowing that this time you are "ready!"

THEN....someone comes along who takes your breath away. Its no longer a rehearsal. Its opening night and you didn't count on all these overwhelming feelings of excitement and joy and in being caught up in the moment. The things that you rehearsed in your mind and the strong sense of conviction you felt about them have suddenly turned to silly putty and you soon find yourself repeating the very same mistakes you swore you would avoid this time. There is a name for that. Its called "being human".

You have to forgive yourself and not count it as a failure. Love has that affect on EVERYBODY. Put it this way, if you weren't so taken off your guard by this person then the love just wasn't there. God made love to be like that. Its more powerful than any drug. When a person's in love, everything else fades into insignificance including one's personal convictions.

 

[Jullianna]

I did touch on that in my initial post; maybe it got lost in the noise. If you understood and just disagreed, I apologize for repeating it.

I believe that trying to divine the consequences of specific sins is meaningless. I don't see any benefit in trying to create a link between something we consider to be "bad" and a sin we've committed. You know, both in your heart and mind, that sin is bad. You have felt pain and we know it is because of sin. In some cases, the "bad" simply exists for the good to be more clearly shown (John 9). In the end, what we deem "bad" very well may be for a far greater good. Perhaps I've taken the wrong message from this verse, but it seems to me that Jesus is saying: "Bad things are in this world, they are a result of Sin(as a whole), but not necessarily A specific sin or sins." If this is accurate, the understanding that can be gained is that Sin leads to pain (which you already understand ). Not only for us, but also those around us. Am I oversimplifying this? Do you see something more going on here?

I agree to a point. For me though, taking it that extra step, attempting to see things through His eyes (the big picture, not just my finite little corner of the planet), seeing how deeply it not only affects me, but those around me and even on down generations, deeply affects me in ways I seem to have trouble relating here. I know it's forgiven and I don't want to dwell on the sin itself, but rather its cause and effect.

When I think about all of this, it isn't only the things I have done wrong that touch me, but the things I have neglected to do as well, particularly in light of this verse:

James 4: 17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

If the wrong things I do can impact generations (as they did for so many in scripture), so can the things I neglect to do. THIS is what I must keep in mind.

Ah, I think I finally know what you're talking about. Let me offer you this perspective (which may or may not be relevant at all, I'm really not sure).

Ok, your life outside a relationship is like a rehearsal. You say to yourself "this time I'm not going to do this", "this time I am going to handle this better", "when this issue comes up I will know how to deal with it", etc... and you build up your confidence waiting for that right person to come along, knowing that this time you are "ready!"

THEN....someone comes along who takes your breath away. Its no longer a rehearsal. Its opening night and you didn't count on all these overwhelming feelings of excitement and joy and in being caught up in the moment. The things that you rehearsed in your mind and the strong sense of conviction you felt about them have suddenly turned to silly putty and you soon find yourself repeating the very same mistakes you swore you would avoid this time. There is a name for that. Its called "being human".

You have to forgive yourself and not count it as a failure. Love has that affect on EVERYBODY. Put it this way, if you weren't so taken off your guard by this person then the love just wasn't there. God made love to be like that. Its more powerful than any drug. When a person's in love, everything else fades into insignificance including one's personal convictions.

Uh oh...a guy understands. The female handbook must be changed immediately. I hereby call an emergency meeting of all women in the forum to the forum ladies room.

I was actually typing out loud in an attempt to organize my own thoughts. I didn't expect it to make sense to anyone. You are exactly right, Gabe. But it's still just an excuse like Stilly said, isn't it?