Again, I like to know a little about who I am engaging with .. if engaging ... I grasp a little, now, about your focus ... good start. I too am an expectant of the so-called "rapture" ... it's not a good title, but it is recognized, so will deal with it as such ... Just lately, on another site, I have gleaned some information about the early "fathers" ... some of whom, did, indeed, view the so-called rapture as an awaited event. Thought this interesting, because there iw so much fluff on the internet about this subject being something that was "invented" within the last couple hundred years, by certain scriptural notables ... or by some teenager, even! Bottom line, it is scriptural, so just because the various church corporate "orgaizations" did not recognize it ... we are suppose to hold it at arms length ... I, on the other hand, hold all church "organization" at arms length, and am every so much mor happy and at peace doing so ... But I ramble ... You are "into" rapture information ... alright, I like that. But honestly, all I really know about it ... for sure ...is what Paul tells us. Anything else, I have to look at with at least some hesitation ... What say you ... ZNP ... about that stance?
Summary of Bible references on the Rapture
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Ummmm .... Sorry ZNP, I am a "show me" type of person .. always have been , always will be ... The book of Revelations is just a bunck of scattered dust in the wind to me ... I ignore it, totally. Why don't you? Writing on the wall ... come into my kitchen, the kids have done lots of than .. you think any of it is from God? ... Tow calves .. Yes, and the price of good hamberger and steak is shocking! Seven years prio to the tribulation ... Paul told me, indicated to me that being concernied about such times and events is sorto of a trivial matter, and not to pay much attentin to it ...
Now aren't I an xss for saying all that ... Yes, it has been said ... that of me. I agree!
But ZNP, with all of htat chaff put aside, and ignored, we do have some common points of understanding .. lets build on those?
That is, we both appreciate the scriptures ... you tend to go with the fluff, whereas I tend to go with the Pauline gold; but, you do focus on the rapture, so in that arena we do have a strong commonality of interests. Good start, don't you think!
ZNP ...I believe they are not preaching according to the pattern demonstrated by Peter
(Robin)
And that's the critical point ... that critical difference that I sense between you and I ... You follow Peter; I follow Paul. We really can not come together with that ... or there's good reason to think that. As far as I'm concerned, we could dump the lot of scriptures, if we just kept our focus on the ten Pauline epistles. Yah ... Christ said this and that, but wo did He say them to? On the other hand, Christ told Paul, to tell us ... all of us, not just some "chosen peoples" ... allof us, imcludimng the so-called chosen ones ... Christ told Paul, to tell all of us certain matters ... So then, why not focus on what Christ told Paul to tell us? It's a valid question ... do you have a good answer?
Elijah was raptured, taken up in the whirlwind.
Enoch was also raptured, taken up.
Samson pushing out the pillars is referenced by Paul. The numerical value of pillars equals the numerical value of the church. It indicates the church will be taken out of the way, the pillar and base of the truth, and when that happens the temple to Dagon will collapse. (Dagon is the worship of global trade -- the collapse of the world trade center was a harbinger, warning of the coming collapse of the world's economy when the Lord takes out the church as the two pillars).
On the one hand the rapture is the calling up of the believers, on the other it is judgment falling on the earth.
1. When Samson pushed out the pillars it killed all those in the temple to Dagon. That indicates that at the same time as the rapture there will be this judgment falling.
2. When Elijah was on the mountain he called down fire, immediately after that the 450 prophets of Baal were executed and the tribulation began.
3. Adonijah is a type of the Antichrist trying to usurp the anointed one, Solomon, from being crowned king. When Solomon is crowned king all those who were with the Antichrist are exposed and flee.
4. In the book of Revelation Jesus tells the church in Philadelphia that He would keep them from the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole earth.
5. Later, when the sixth seal is opened everyone on earth knows that it is the "wrath of the Lamb". Only Jesus is known as the Lamb of God. This isn't a reference to any of the pagan gods. So how do they know based on an earthquake that this is the "wrath of the lamb"? An earthquake is not unique to Jesus. The dead being raised and the rapture taking place, that is unique to Jesus, no other religion talks about that. Every time there was a resurrection from the dead there was an earthquake.
Which raises the question, why is there a rapture? When you are dedicated to the priesthood you are separated for seven days by the door of the temple. There is a temple in the heavens. When Jesus was raised from the dead He was separated for seven days. The second time he appeared to the disciples was seven days later. Jesus was made our high priest according to the order of Melchizedek. But the description of the raptured saints standing on the sea of glass is of priests being dedicated to the Lord.
The first reference to the rapture in the Bible is in Genesis chapter 1 when God separated the waters above the firmament with those on the earth. The Bible tells us that "the waters" refer to peoples and nations. Water being taken up above the firmament is part of the water cycle and without it we would not have life on Earth.
According to Ecclesiastes that which has been is that which shall be. God tells us the end from the beginning because it is proof that He alone is God.
In Colossians Paul told us that the feast of the Lord were a shadow of things to come. The Old Testament calls them "dress rehearsals".
John the Baptist tells us that Jesus is the Lamb of God, the Passover lamb, which takes away the sins of the world. Jesus was crucified precisely as a fulfillment of the Passover. He rose from the dead precisely as a fulfillment of the first feast of firstfruits. The seven day feast of unleavened bread is a fulfillment of the church age, beginning with the crucifixion and Shavuot was fulfilled by Jesus ascension.
Meanwhile there are three Fall feasts: the prophet Joel tells you what the fulfillment of the Feast of trumpets will be, the Day of atonement is the day of judgment, and the Feast of Tabernacles is the wedding of the lamb.
So I take these other prophecies very seriously, the fact that you are clueless about the two calves born in 2014, or the Revelation 12 sign in 2017, or the writing on the Wall sign from 2017 to 2024, or the fulfillment of the frankenstein bug in Joel, that is your choice.
Based on the two epistles to the Thessalonians it seems quite clear that Paul also incorporated the signs, prophesies and current events pointing to the end days into his preaching just as Peter did. The book of Acts has two witnesses, Peter and Paul, just as the seven year tribulation will also have two witnesses in the first half of that time. The church age will end as it began.
Why are the signs and prophecies so crucial?
1. The appearance of the two calves with 7's on their foreheads on the Feast of Trumpets in 2014 gives us a very specific countdown in which the seven years of famine begins in 2026. I have shared on this extensively in this blog.
2. The Revelation 12 sign in 2017 also gives us a specific countdown to 2026 as well.
3. The writing on the wall sign from 2017 to 2024 was confirmed when Biden was removed from office and Trump won the election in 2024. That sign gives a two year countdown from 2024 to 2026.
4. The prophet Joel prophesied of the Pandemic in 2020. That was a seven year countdown from 2020 to 2026.
The odds of these four events taking place and all giving us a countdown to 2026 are truly astronomical. God tells us the end from the beginning because it is proof that He alone is God. Not only so but He tells us in the prophets that He will do nothing without telling the secret to His prophets.
The verse that "no one knows the day or hour" has a very big problem. In Revelation 3 Sardis is warned that if they don't repent and study the word as they did at the beginning they will not know the hour of the Lord's return. Therefore you cannot interpret the Lord's word that we will never know the day or hour, only that no one knew it at the time He said that. Jesus said it would be as the days of Lot and Lot was given a heads up that judgment was about to fall about 12 hours before it did. Meanwhile Abraham was given a heads up at least. a day before that and maybe a few days before that. Jesus also said it would be as the days of Noah. Noah entered the ark and the door was shut by God seven days before the flood began. So in both examples they were given a heads up a few days or at least a few hours beforehand.
When Jesus was born there was a sign in the heavens that the Magi saw and came to worship. That was their two year warning.
There is a big misunderstanding of the tribulation, most people see the Antichrist, the Beast, and the armies of them. What they don't get is this is because the disguise has been stripped off of them. The New Testament tells us that the whole world lies in the evil one. That isn't a reference to some future date but rather has been the fact for the entire church age. During the tribulation everything is collapsing around the Antichrist and Satan and the fallen angels have been cast to the Earth. They are fighting a desperate losing battle. The rapture results in the Lord Jesus as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah leading 144,000 warriors to the Earth because the Lord is not going to leave anyone as an orphan. What Revelation is really revealing is Jesus Christ and His victory.
Jesus is the greater Joseph and Joseph was able to read the dreams and visions from God and interpret them. That is how he knew the tribulation would be seven years. Joseph is saving people alive during the famine.
Mordecai and Esther are also standing against the evil Haman, revealing his evil plot and defeating him.
1. The appearance of the two calves with 7's on their foreheads on the Feast of Trumpets in 2014 gives us a very specific countdown in which the seven years of famine begins in 2026. I have shared on this extensively in this blog.
2. The Revelation 12 sign in 2017 also gives us a specific countdown to 2026 as well.
3. The writing on the wall sign from 2017 to 2024 was confirmed when Biden was removed from office and Trump won the election in 2024. That sign gives a two year countdown from 2024 to 2026.
4. The prophet Joel prophesied of the Pandemic in 2020. That was a seven year countdown from 2020 to 2026.
The odds of these four events taking place and all giving us a countdown to 2026 are truly astronomical. God tells us the end from the beginning because it is proof that He alone is God. Not only so but He tells us in the prophets that He will do nothing without telling the secret to His prophets.
The verse that "no one knows the day or hour" has a very big problem. In Revelation 3 Sardis is warned that if they don't repent and study the word as they did at the beginning they will not know the hour of the Lord's return. Therefore you cannot interpret the Lord's word that we will never know the day or hour, only that no one knew it at the time He said that. Jesus said it would be as the days of Lot and Lot was given a heads up that judgment was about to fall about 12 hours before it did. Meanwhile Abraham was given a heads up at least. a day before that and maybe a few days before that. Jesus also said it would be as the days of Noah. Noah entered the ark and the door was shut by God seven days before the flood began. So in both examples they were given a heads up a few days or at least a few hours beforehand.
When Jesus was born there was a sign in the heavens that the Magi saw and came to worship. That was their two year warning.
There is a big misunderstanding of the tribulation, most people see the Antichrist, the Beast, and the armies of them. What they don't get is this is because the disguise has been stripped off of them. The New Testament tells us that the whole world lies in the evil one. That isn't a reference to some future date but rather has been the fact for the entire church age. During the tribulation everything is collapsing around the Antichrist and Satan and the fallen angels have been cast to the Earth. They are fighting a desperate losing battle. The rapture results in the Lord Jesus as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah leading 144,000 warriors to the Earth because the Lord is not going to leave anyone as an orphan. What Revelation is really revealing is Jesus Christ and His victory.
Jesus is the greater Joseph and Joseph was able to read the dreams and visions from God and interpret them. That is how he knew the tribulation would be seven years. Joseph is saving people alive during the famine.
Mordecai and Esther are also standing against the evil Haman, revealing his evil plot and defeating him.
Just a thought:
The Savior only requires Baptism. Whereas the followers of Lucifer require tattoos or other markings. Like the mark of the beast (Rev. 13:15-17), etc. But the Savior's mark is not outwardly. A mark that he can see. A mark of the repentant soul (Rev. 14:1, Rev. 1:5-6).
The gangs have their little markings. But the Savior's people regard their bodies to be holy. No marks.
I knew a guy that had his fathers initials tattooed on his leg. The father tattooed him just in case the child was lost, then he could identify him. It was during war time when thousands of children were massed together.
The Savior only requires Baptism. Whereas the followers of Lucifer require tattoos or other markings. Like the mark of the beast (Rev. 13:15-17), etc. But the Savior's mark is not outwardly. A mark that he can see. A mark of the repentant soul (Rev. 14:1, Rev. 1:5-6).
The gangs have their little markings. But the Savior's people regard their bodies to be holy. No marks.
I knew a guy that had his fathers initials tattooed on his leg. The father tattooed him just in case the child was lost, then he could identify him. It was during war time when thousands of children were massed together.
Acts 3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. 7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. 8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God: 10 And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him. 11 And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.
Acts is given to us as a pattern. One brother said that the healing miracles are the "dinner bell for the gospel". This is perfectly portrayed here, you can see that by healing this man it was like ringing a dinner bell and everyone ran over there to be fed. In the gospels Jesus "sent them to preach the gospel and heal the sick". Somehow we have no issue with being sent to preach the gospel, but how often does that include healing the sick? Recently I heard a report from those who had gone to Peru to hand out wheelchairs to those in need. That is a good work, a compassionate work, but it isn't "healing the sick". Imagine what would have happened in Lima, a city of 10 million if instead of handing out a few dozen wheelchairs they had healed a few dozen people who were wheel chair bound? Instead of me hearing the news in a small gathering it would have been front page news and instead of a few hundred grateful people you would have had a hundred thousand showing up to gospel rallies. Jesus said He desires that His joy would be in us and that our joy would be made full. Imagine how joyful for all these people in wheelchairs to be healed of that sickness.
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Preaching the gospel is a joint effort with God, we are coworkers with God. He is the one that heals, we can't do that, but we are the ones who testify, who are witnesses, and share concerning the Lord. If your gospel message is only what you can do and doesn't give place for God to do His work then don't be surprised that the results are based on your strength and not on God's.
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Notice how quickly Peter turns from glorifying Jesus to convicting them of sin. The pattern is very simple God heals the man --> Everyone gathers around --> Peter gives all glory to Jesus --> Peter convicts them of sin.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
The crucifixion was in early spring and this is in late summer. People want to forget things like this but Peter let's them know that this is not going away. Today you could do the same thing with the Pandemic, pointing out that everyone desired a liar named Fauci rather than those who were speaking the truth to them.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
This is why the healing ministry needs to be a central part of the gospel. It is the evidence that Jesus is the Prince of Life.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
That is also why they listened to Fauci, "he was an expert". In a crisis everyone is looking to the expert, everyone is ignorant.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
So now Peter is turning from convicting them to pointing out that what happened was a fulfillment of prophecy. You could do the same thing with the Pandemic, turning to Joel and showing that it was a fulfillment of prophecy, a sign that the day of the Lord is nigh.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
You see, the fulfillment of prophecy tells you that the day of the Lord is at hand, therefore you need to repent now.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
This is how God operates. Here is the law, you sinned, you fell short of the glory of God, but here is Jesus, here is what it looks like when you are filled with the word of God and live it out. Christ in you, the hope of glory.
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
This is crucial, this explains the entire church age. We walk by faith, not by sight. Hope that is seen is not hope. Jesus is in the heavens to draw out those that walk by faith, those who hope in what they don't see. It is just like the refining of silver where you melt it and scoop off the dross.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
God is the one who knows the hearts. If you loved God you would have been looking and seeking for the one that Moses was talking about. Being indifferent or ambivalent about Jesus reveals where your heart is.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
This is one step worse, this is willful disregard. You have those who are looking for and seeking the Lord, then you have those who are indifferent, and now you have those who "will not hear" what the Lord has to say. For example there is an archaelogical dig right now trying to confirm Noah's ark and they are receiving death threats. That is an example of someone who "will not hear the prophet" that God "shall destroy".
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
There are many, many prophecies that have been fulfilled and you could use any of them in a message following this formula.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
This is the covenant that we are preaching. To be brought into this covenant is to be saved. Now being healed is a blessing. Our covenant includes the fact that all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. What better way to demonstrate that than by having God heal someone at the outset of this message.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Acts is given to us as a pattern. One brother said that the healing miracles are the "dinner bell for the gospel". This is perfectly portrayed here, you can see that by healing this man it was like ringing a dinner bell and everyone ran over there to be fed. In the gospels Jesus "sent them to preach the gospel and heal the sick". Somehow we have no issue with being sent to preach the gospel, but how often does that include healing the sick? Recently I heard a report from those who had gone to Peru to hand out wheelchairs to those in need. That is a good work, a compassionate work, but it isn't "healing the sick". Imagine what would have happened in Lima, a city of 10 million if instead of handing out a few dozen wheelchairs they had healed a few dozen people who were wheel chair bound? Instead of me hearing the news in a small gathering it would have been front page news and instead of a few hundred grateful people you would have had a hundred thousand showing up to gospel rallies. Jesus said He desires that His joy would be in us and that our joy would be made full. Imagine how joyful for all these people in wheelchairs to be healed of that sickness.
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
Preaching the gospel is a joint effort with God, we are coworkers with God. He is the one that heals, we can't do that, but we are the ones who testify, who are witnesses, and share concerning the Lord. If your gospel message is only what you can do and doesn't give place for God to do His work then don't be surprised that the results are based on your strength and not on God's.
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Notice how quickly Peter turns from glorifying Jesus to convicting them of sin. The pattern is very simple God heals the man --> Everyone gathers around --> Peter gives all glory to Jesus --> Peter convicts them of sin.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; 15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
The crucifixion was in early spring and this is in late summer. People want to forget things like this but Peter let's them know that this is not going away. Today you could do the same thing with the Pandemic, pointing out that everyone desired a liar named Fauci rather than those who were speaking the truth to them.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
This is why the healing ministry needs to be a central part of the gospel. It is the evidence that Jesus is the Prince of Life.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
That is also why they listened to Fauci, "he was an expert". In a crisis everyone is looking to the expert, everyone is ignorant.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
So now Peter is turning from convicting them to pointing out that what happened was a fulfillment of prophecy. You could do the same thing with the Pandemic, turning to Joel and showing that it was a fulfillment of prophecy, a sign that the day of the Lord is nigh.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
You see, the fulfillment of prophecy tells you that the day of the Lord is at hand, therefore you need to repent now.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
This is how God operates. Here is the law, you sinned, you fell short of the glory of God, but here is Jesus, here is what it looks like when you are filled with the word of God and live it out. Christ in you, the hope of glory.
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
This is crucial, this explains the entire church age. We walk by faith, not by sight. Hope that is seen is not hope. Jesus is in the heavens to draw out those that walk by faith, those who hope in what they don't see. It is just like the refining of silver where you melt it and scoop off the dross.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
God is the one who knows the hearts. If you loved God you would have been looking and seeking for the one that Moses was talking about. Being indifferent or ambivalent about Jesus reveals where your heart is.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
This is one step worse, this is willful disregard. You have those who are looking for and seeking the Lord, then you have those who are indifferent, and now you have those who "will not hear" what the Lord has to say. For example there is an archaelogical dig right now trying to confirm Noah's ark and they are receiving death threats. That is an example of someone who "will not hear the prophet" that God "shall destroy".
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
There are many, many prophecies that have been fulfilled and you could use any of them in a message following this formula.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
This is the covenant that we are preaching. To be brought into this covenant is to be saved. Now being healed is a blessing. Our covenant includes the fact that all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. What better way to demonstrate that than by having God heal someone at the outset of this message.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.