Systematic Bible Study

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Feb 18, 2025
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I see you like to see how a book ends before reading from the beginning.
Would you like to comment on EPH 1:10 first? :^)
to me it speaks for itself :)

10 with regard to the fulfillment of the times [that is, the end of history, the climax of the ages]—to bring all things together in Christ, [both] things in the heavens and things on the earth.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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to me it speaks for itself :)

10 with regard to the fulfillment of the times [that is, the end of history, the climax of the ages]—to bring all things together in Christ, [both] things in the heavens and things on the earth.
True, but I will give PT a chance to respond before moving on to v.11.
TTYL
 
Oct 19, 2024
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"I do", said the little red hen:

EPH 1:10, “to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.”

“to be put into effect” refers to God’s mystery
“when the times will have reached their fulfillment” indicates God’s timing
“to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head” seems to indicate world unification
“even Christ” names Jesus as the head of God’s government

The mystery Paul has in mind will be explained later in Ephesians in terms of including Gentiles in God’s plan of salvation.
The time of fulfillment would have to be by what is termed the “last days” (in ACTS 2:17, 2TM 3:1 and 2PT 3:3)
or “end of the age” (MT 24:3, 10, 19, 21, etc.).
Other passages indicate that “all things” does not include God’s enemies (1CR 15:25),
who will be separated from those who belong to Christ (1CR 15:23) per the eschatological parables of Jesus
(MT 22:13-14, 24:33, 25:12, 25:30, etc.) and destroyed (1CR 15:26).
Christ’s first advent was for the purpose of creating his spiritual body,
but his second coming will be on Judgment Day (HB 9:26-28)
EPH 1:11, "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.”

“In him” means saved by faith in Christ
“we were also chosen” includes Paul with the Christians reading the epistle
“having been predestined” repeats the term used in v.5 to refer to “from creation” per v.4
“according to the plan of him” refers to God’s will and purpose in v.9-10
“who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will” means that God is in control
of history so that His plan will be achieved as He determines
 
Oct 19, 2024
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I sense that our systematic study is proceeding too slowly for some, so I will speed up the pace by going ahead
and presenting verses 12-14 with a summary commentary regarding EPH 1:1-14.

In EPH 1:1-14, v.3-14 is one sentence in the Greek.

The main theme of the passage is indicated by the use of the phrase “in Christ” or equivalents (in bold) twelve times. The meaning is most clearly signified in v.7: through his blood (because of Christ’s death on the cross) we have redemption or the forgiveness of our sins.

A second theme is indicated by references to Christ’s atonement being God’s will from the beginning, including “before the creation”, “predestined”, and “purposed to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment.”

A problematic (diversely interpreted) part of the passage is “you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession”, which has been understood in two contradictory ways:

1. Saints being sealed by the HS means that they cannot commit apostasy (intentionally repent of having saving faith in Jesus as Lord).

2. Being sealed does not prevent saints from committing apostasy (intentionally failing to persevere/continue in having saving faith).

Take your pick. I choose the latter for reasons that have been explained on other threads but we can review them here if folks desire.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
4,098
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"I do", said the little red hen:

EPH 1:10, “to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.”

“to be put into effect” refers to God’s mystery
“when the times will have reached their fulfillment” indicates God’s timing
“to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head” seems to indicate world unification
“even Christ” names Jesus as the head of God’s government

The mystery Paul has in mind will be explained later in Ephesians in terms of including Gentiles in God’s plan of salvation.
The time of fulfillment would have to be by what is termed the “last days” (in ACTS 2:17, 2TM 3:1 and 2PT 3:3)
or “end of the age” (MT 24:3, 10, 19, 21, etc.).
Other passages indicate that “all things” does not include God’s enemies (1CR 15:25),
who will be separated from those who belong to Christ (1CR 15:23) per the eschatological parables of Jesus
(MT 22:13-14, 24:33, 25:12, 25:30, etc.) and destroyed (1CR 15:26).
Christ’s first advent was for the purpose of creating his spiritual body,
but his second coming will be on Judgment Day (HB 9:26-28)
9 After making known to us the revealed secret of his will, according to his sense of good which he purposed/purposes in himself:
10 To gather into one, into the economy (εἰς οἰκονομίαν) of the fulness (τοῦ πληρώματος) of the times (τῶν καιρῶν), to be headed up (ἀνακεφαλαιώσασθαι) all things (τὰ πάντα) in the Christ, (ἐν τῷ Χριστῷ) both which are within the heavens (τὰ τε ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς), and which are from on the earth (καὶ τὰ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς); in him ( ἐν αὐτῷ):

Some think the final "in Him should be at the beginning of the next verse, echoing the "in Christ " with all things etc being parenthetical -

10 [the revealed secret of His will, namely], into the economy of the fulness of the times, all things in the Christ to be headed up/ gathered together (both which are within the heavens, and which are from on the earth)
11 In Him (ἐν αὐτῷ) in whom (ἐν ᾧ) also we inherit (καὶ ἐκληρώθημεν), after being predestinated (προορισθέντες) according to the purpose of him (κατὰ πρόθεσιν τοῦ) who is working all things (τὰ πάντα ἐνεργοῦντος) according to the counsel (κατὰ τὴν βουλὴν) of his own will (τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ).

I like that, otherwise the final "in Him" seems redundant.

v. 10 God's end goal is to sift all of creation and put all that has trusted Christ into one space; and all that has chosen not to trust Christ into another separate space where it cannot devalue that which is in Christ.
v. 11 The first cohort of believers knew they would inherit an inheritance in the former, after being predestined to the same when they became in Christ through faith in Him, and destined to that inheritance by someone who is working all things toward this exhaustive separation of the Christ-followers from the Christ-rejectors.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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9 After making known to us the revealed secret of his will, according to his sense of good which he purposed/purposes in himself:
10 To gather into one, into the economy (εἰς οἰκονομίαν) of the fulness (τοῦ πληρώματος) of the times (τῶν καιρῶν), to be headed up (ἀνακεφαλαιώσασθαι) all things (τὰ πάντα) in the Christ, (ἐν τῷ Χριστῷ) both which are within the heavens (τὰ τε ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς), and which are from on the earth (καὶ τὰ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς); in him ( ἐν αὐτῷ):

Some think the final "in Him should be at the beginning of the next verse, echoing the "in Christ " with all things etc being parenthetical -

10 [the revealed secret of His will, namely], into the economy of the fulness of the times, all things in the Christ to be headed up/ gathered together (both which are within the heavens, and which are from on the earth)
11 In Him (ἐν αὐτῷ) in whom (ἐν ᾧ) also we inherit (καὶ ἐκληρώθημεν), after being predestinated (προορισθέντες) according to the purpose of him (κατὰ πρόθεσιν τοῦ) who is working all things (τὰ πάντα ἐνεργοῦντος) according to the counsel (κατὰ τὴν βουλὴν) of his own will (τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ).

I like that, otherwise the final "in Him" seems redundant.

v. 10 God's end goal is to sift all of creation and put all that has trusted Christ into one space; and all that has chosen not to trust Christ into another separate space where it cannot devalue that which is in Christ.
v. 11 The first cohort of believers knew they would inherit an inheritance in the former, after being predestined to the same when they became in Christ through faith in Him, and destined to that inheritance by someone who is working all things toward this exhaustive separation of the Christ-followers from the Christ-rejectors.
Better late than never (but don't be late to the pearly gate :^)

V.10 seems to be the most convoluted yet, but sifting is consistent with the parables of Jesus about the separation of the saved from the unsaved at the Judgment.

Please comment on v.12-14 too, which somehow I did not post successfully before sharing the summary.
(Too early in the morning I guess :^)
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,469
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113
I sense that our systematic study is proceeding too slowly for some, so I will speed up the pace by going ahead
and presenting verses 12-14 with a summary commentary regarding EPH 1:1-14.

In EPH 1:1-14, v.3-14 is one sentence in the Greek.

The main theme of the passage is indicated by the use of the phrase “in Christ” or equivalents (in bold) twelve times. The meaning is most clearly signified in v.7: through his blood (because of Christ’s death on the cross) we have redemption or the forgiveness of our sins.

A second theme is indicated by references to Christ’s atonement being God’s will from the beginning, including “before the creation”, “predestined”, and “purposed to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment.”

A problematic (diversely interpreted) part of the passage is “you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession”, which has been understood in two contradictory ways:

1. Saints being sealed by the HS means that they cannot commit apostasy (intentionally repent of having saving faith in Jesus as Lord).

2. Being sealed does not prevent saints from committing apostasy (intentionally failing to persevere/continue in having saving faith).

Take your pick. I choose the latter for reasons that have been explained on other threads but we can review them here if folks desire.
I found myself here after skimming through the "never saved" thread with a thought that I wondered where I might manage to insert a toe and found this seemingly warm enough, as well as very useful in helping me crystalize the initial thought.
In the previously mentioned thread, the first and second Adam were briefly mentioned which initiated my thought and the conclusion of this referenced post finalized it for me. Thus providing me perfect opportunity of time and place to express it.

The first Adam(s) was given a choice with the influence of the serpent introduced and the Second Adam introduced the life-giving Spirit with (re-stored? or perhaps somewhat more "galvanized"?) influence on the choice, both powerful influences but, at least it should seem to me, that One is more so (although influence may yet be left to the chooser, :unsure:) than the other....

I lean toward taking the former pick, as I view apostasy as Adam(s) sin, and the sin of all unbelievers. It is my opinion that all unbelievers know there is a God but deny him in varying degrees. And those that believe in Him have faith in varying degrees but without ever falling (away) completely. I mean, a grain of mustard seed amount is given much account, right?
 
Oct 19, 2024
3,787
847
113
I found myself here after skimming through the "never saved" thread with a thought that I wondered where I might manage to insert a toe and found this seemingly warm enough, as well as very useful in helping me crystalize the initial thought.
In the previously mentioned thread, the first and second Adam were briefly mentioned which initiated my thought and the conclusion of this referenced post finalized it for me. Thus providing me perfect opportunity of time and place to express it.

The first Adam(s) was given a choice with the influence of the serpent introduced and the Second Adam introduced the life-giving Spirit with (re-stored? or perhaps somewhat more "galvanized"?) influence on the choice, both powerful influences but, at least it should seem to me, that One is more so (although influence may yet be left to the chooser, :unsure:) than the other....

I lean toward taking the former pick, as I view apostasy as Adam(s) sin, and the sin of all unbelievers. It is my opinion that all unbelievers know there is a God but deny him in varying degrees. And those that believe in Him have faith in varying degrees but without ever falling (away) completely. I mean, a grain of mustard seed amount is given much account, right?
I think contrasting the evil spirit with the Holy Spirit is biblical, and yes, the latter was not clearly revealed
or introduced until by Jesus and Paul.

Apostasy is the sin of reverting to atheism after having had saving faith in God as revealed (HB 6:4-6),
so it might apply to A&E if they were created as believers, but not to atheists who have never repented/converted.

Relating what you posted to the study of EPH, we can say that Paul addresses the epistle to believers/saints,
who once were influenced by the spirit of Satan but repented/converted to faith in Christ and were then
indwelt and influenced by His Holy Spirit.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,469
2,283
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Apostasy is the sin of reverting to atheism after having had saving faith in God as revealed (HB 6:4-6),
so it might apply to A&E if they were created as believers, but not to atheists who have never repented/converted.
Without looking up the passage for want of the convenience, do I recall it correctly as speaking toward that which is commonly interpreted as "impossible to restore"? In any case, I'll look more into your claim of the definition of apostasy before I will, wholeheartedly, 'take your word for it.' Thank you.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Without looking up the passage for want of the convenience, do I recall it correctly as speaking toward that which is commonly interpreted as "impossible to restore"? In any case, I'll look more into your claim of the definition of apostasy before I will, wholeheartedly, 'take your word for it.' Thank you.
Don't worry about my claim; read HB 6:4-6 and the foilowing:

MT 10:22, “All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.”

RM 11:22, “Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.”

1CR 15:2, “By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.”

GL 5:4, “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”

CL 1:22-23, “But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

2THS 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

2TM 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

HB 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

HB 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.”

HB 10:26-36, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God… So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”

JM 1:12, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”

2PT 1:10-11, “Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”

2PT 2:20, “If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.”

1JN 2:24-25, “See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.”

JUDE 21, “Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.”

RV 2:10, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”