Systematic Bible Study

[GWH]

EPH 2:11-12 – “Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called 'uncircumcised' by those who call themselves 'the circumcision' (that done in the body by the hands of men)—remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world."

“Therefore, remember that formerly” – this is a flashback to before the salvation described in v. 7b-10
“you who are Gentiles by birth” – this refers to all nonJews, and brought forward includes Muslims
“and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” - this describes the separation of Israel from the rest of humanity worked by Moses
“(that done in the body by the hands of men)” – this refers to the physical operation of circumcision
“remember that at that time you were separate from Christ” – this refers to “formerly” in v.11
“excluded from citizenship in Israel” – they were separate from the Old as well as the New Covenant
“and foreigners to the covenants of the promise” – this reiterates and combines the previous phrases
“without hope and without God in the world” – except for what could be discerned from creation and conscience per RM 1:20 & 2:14-15

 

[PaulThomson]

EPH 2:11-12 – “Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called 'uncircumcised' by those who call themselves 'the circumcision' (that done in the body by the hands of men)—remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world."

“Therefore, remember that formerly” – this is a flashback to before the salvation described in v. 7b-10
“you who are Gentiles by birth” – this refers to all nonJews, and brought forward includes Muslims
“and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” - this describes the separation of Israel from the rest of humanity worked by Moses
“(that done in the body by the hands of men)” – this refers to the physical operation of circumcision
“remember that at that time you were separate from Christ” – this refers to “formerly” in v.11
“excluded from citizenship in Israel” – they were separate from the Old as well as the New Covenant
“and foreigners to the covenants of the promise” – this reiterates and combines the previous phrases
“without hope and without God in the world” – except for what could be discerned from creation and conscience per RM 1:20 & 2:14-15

Eph 2:10 For of Him (αὐτοῦ γάρ) we are (ἐσμεν) workmanship (ποίημα: used only one other time of the creation in Rom. 1:20), created (κτισθέντες) in Christ Jesus (ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ) upon good works (ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς), which (οἷς ) prepares/-ed (προητοίμασεν, aorist indicative active) the God (ὁ θεὸς), so that (ἵνα) in them (ἐν αὐτοῖς) we should walk (περιπατήσωμεν)
For we are His new creation, His oeuvre d'art, created by means of Christ Jesus on top of Christ's good works, which God prepared for Him to do for and through us, so that we should walk in them.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore (Διὸ) keep on remembering (μνημονεύετε), that ( ὅτι) ye (ὑμεῖς) being in time past (ποτὲ) the Gentiles (τὰ ἔθνη), in flesh (ἐν σαρκί) those being called (οἱ λεγόμενοι) Uncircumcision, (ἀκροβυστία) under-from the one called (ὑπὸ τῆς λεγομένης) Circumcision (περιτομῆς) in flesh (ἐν σαρκὶ) made by hands (χειροποιήτου);
Eph 2:12 because (ὅτι) ye were (ἦτε) at that time (ἐν τῷ καιρῷ ἐκείνῳ) without (χωρὶς) Christ ( Χριστοῦ), being aliens (ἀπηλλοτριωμένοι) from the commonwealth (τῆς πολιτείας) of the Israel (τοῦ Ἰσραὴλ), and strangers ( καὶ ξένοι) from the covenants (τῶν διαθηκῶν) of the promise (τῆς ἐπαγγελίας), hope (ἐλπίδα) not having (μὴ ἔχοντες), and without God (καὶ ἄθεοι) in the world (ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ):

In pursuit of this goal of us walking in the good works God prepared for Jesus to do in and through us, keep on remembering - that at one time you were Gentiles, called "Uncircumcision in flesh" by the person called "Circumcision in flesh", made circumcised by hands; that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of the promise (made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob), having no hope and godless in the world.

One of the primary motivations for a Gentile to walk in the works of Jesus is a deep gratitude for the freely grace privilege experienced when becoming one of God's children. We will see later that this was, in fact, God's primary goal: to bring together a single family of people drawn from every nation, tongue and tribe.

 

[GWH]

Eph 2:10 For of Him (αὐτοῦ γάρ) we are (ἐσμεν) workmanship (ποίημα: used only one other time of the creation in Rom. 1:20), created (κτισθέντες) in Christ Jesus (ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ) upon good works (ἐπὶ ἔργοις ἀγαθοῖς), which (οἷς ) prepares/-ed (προητοίμασεν, aorist indicative active) the God (ὁ θεὸς), so that (ἵνα) in them (ἐν αὐτοῖς) we should walk (περιπατήσωμεν)
For we are His new creation, His oeuvre d'art, created by means of Christ Jesus on top of Christ's good works, which God prepared for Him to do for and through us, so that we should walk in them.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore (Διὸ) keep on remembering (μνημονεύετε), that ( ὅτι) ye (ὑμεῖς) being in time past (ποτὲ) the Gentiles (τὰ ἔθνη), in flesh (ἐν σαρκί) those being called (οἱ λεγόμενοι) Uncircumcision, (ἀκροβυστία) under-from the one called (ὑπὸ τῆς λεγομένης) Circumcision (περιτομῆς) in flesh (ἐν σαρκὶ) made by hands (χειροποιήτου);
Eph 2:12 because (ὅτι) ye were (ἦτε) at that time (ἐν τῷ καιρῷ ἐκείνῳ) without (χωρὶς) Christ ( Χριστοῦ), being aliens (ἀπηλλοτριωμένοι) from the commonwealth (τῆς πολιτείας) of the Israel (τοῦ Ἰσραὴλ), and strangers ( καὶ ξένοι) from the covenants (τῶν διαθηκῶν) of the promise (τῆς ἐπαγγελίας), hope (ἐλπίδα) not having (μὴ ἔχοντες), and without God (καὶ ἄθεοι) in the world (ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ):

In pursuit of this goal of us walking in the good works God prepared for Jesus to do in and through us, keep on remembering - that at one time you were Gentiles, called "Uncircumcision in flesh" by the person called "Circumcision in flesh", made circumcised by hands; that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of the promise (made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob), having no hope and godless in the world.

One of the primary motivations for a Gentile to walk in the works of Jesus is a deep gratitude for the freely grace privilege experienced when becoming one of God's children. We will see later that this was, in fact, God's primary goal: to bring together a single family of people drawn from every nation, tongue and tribe.

Yes, and although saying "that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of the promise (made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob), having no hope and godless in the world" could be understood as meaning no one is saved via general revelation, perhaps it means relatively few are saved upon that basis--and it could be inferred (from the Parable of the Talents) that their just hell will be relatively less severe than it will be for those who rejected the OT revelation or Gospel.

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes, and although saying "that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of the promise (made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob), having no hope and godless in the world" could be understood as meaning no one is saved via general revelation, perhaps it means relatively few are saved upon that basis--and it could be inferred (from the Parable of the Talents) that their just hell will be relatively less severe than it will be for those who rejected the OT revelation or Gospel.

That is possible.
But it is also possible that Paul is not describing the objective reality, but the Gentiles' subjective experience. Perhaps they had felt alienated from God because of their guilty conscience, and the only religion in their midst that claimed to guarantee God's forgiveness of sins was Judaism, which most were not willing to join, and most of whose adherents were reluctant to welcome them in. But now they had a way to be guaranteed forgiveness and citizenship among God's people without the entailments of Judaism. Objectively they were not excluded from the pre-gospel covenant of promise, because God had promised in that covenant to bless those who blessed Abraham, Isaac and Israel regardless of whether they were Gentiles or Israelites, and regardless of whether they put themselves under the Mosaic Law.

 

[GWH]

That is possible.
But it is also possible that Paul is not describing the objective reality, but the Gentiles' subjective experience. Perhaps they had felt alienated from God because of their guilty conscience, and the only religion in their midst that claimed to guarantee God's forgiveness of sins was Judaism, which most were not willing to join, and most of whose adherents were reluctant to welcome them in. But now they had a way to be guaranteed forgiveness and citizenship among God's people without the entailments of Judaism. Objectively they were not excluded from the pre-gospel covenant of promise, because God had promised in that covenant to bless those who blessed Abraham, Isaac and Israel regardless of whether they were Gentiles or Israelites, and regardless of whether they put themselves under the Mosaic Law.

Well, those who were aware of Judaism might have felt alienated, but most of humanity had no knowledge of that religion until well after the destruction of Jerusalem and even until after the Moslem conquests.

I agree that God's POS included everyone via "the pre-gospel covenant of promise" or what I call the proto-gospel and gen-rev, although it extended beyond those who encountered Israelites.

 

[PaulThomson]

Well, those who were aware of Judaism might have felt alienated, but most of humanity had no knowledge of that religion until well after the destruction of Jerusalem and even until after the Moslem conquests.

I agree that God's POS included everyone via "the pre-gospel covenant of promise" or what I call the proto-gospel and gen-rev, although it extended beyond those who encountered Israelites.

My perspective is that God accepts people who reach out to Him with trust as far as they can, in whatever culture and time, but the persons who do so may not have assurance of God's acceptance, except through faith in the cross and the Saviour who bore our sins on it. My perspective is that people can find acceptance with God through faith, without salvation (Cornelius, for instance): salvation being the peace that comes through knowing one's sins are forgiven and one therefore knows one is loved and has free access by grace into God's presence.

 

[GWH]

My perspective is that God accepts people who reach out to Him with trust as far as they can, in whatever culture and time, but the persons who do so may not have assurance of God's acceptance, except through faith in the cross and the Saviour who bore our sins on it. My perspective is that people can find acceptance with God through faith, without salvation (Cornelius, for instance): salvation being the peace that comes through knowing one's sins are forgiven and one therefore knows one is loved and has free access by grace into God's presence.

How can one find acceptance with God without also finding salvation?

Anyway, I don't know if you have noticed that I gave up on trying to collate your translation with the NIV because of your complaints and decided to be satisfied with juxtaposition. I will introduce more verses soon. HAND

 

[PaulThomson]

How can one find acceptance with God without also finding salvation?

Anyway, I don't know if you have noticed that I gave up on trying to collate your translation with the NIV because of your complaints and decided to be satisfied with juxtaposition. I will introduce more verses soon. HAND

Acceptance is unilateral, and something God chooses to grant, which we have whether we experience it as ours or not.

Present salvation is wholeness. It is a healthy experience of communion with God. It is a two way intimate relationship.

One can be accepted by God, but not be presently confident in one's communion with God and not be presently Holy Spirit-led, which is what being whole/being saved is.

 

[GWH]

Acceptance is unilateral, and something God chooses to grant, which we have whether we experience it as ours or not.

Present salvation is wholeness. It is a healthy experience of communion with God. It is a two way intimate relationship.

One can be accepted by God, but not be presently confident in one's communion with God and not be presently Holy Spirit-led, which is what being whole/being saved is.

Oh, I see. I say something similar:

As a truthseeker at any time in history contemplates creation, Paul indicates that they will be able to discern God’s being and loving will in nature (RM 1:20, 2:14-15, GL 5:14) by means of what theologians call general revelation. When they realize that God has a moral requirement, if they worship Him they become like Abraham, and the relationship with God becomes personal (RM 4:1-25). Presumably God provides such believers the opportunity to learn the proto-gospel, so they may repent of sin and accept the pre-incarnate sacrifice of Christ, whether in the form of Abraham’s ram (GN 22:13) or Moses’ lamb (EX 12:21). Again, a proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or in pre-NT foreshadowings (CL 1:23, RM 10:13-18, GL 3:8). He also taught that all normal humans have an inner conscience or “common” sense (RM 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture. The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (JN 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1JN 5:6).

At the moment of repentance, the Spirit of Christ/God’s Holy Spirit enters the believer’s spiritual heart (RV 3:20)–again even though they do not realize it–because Paul taught that whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ (RM 8:9). Of course, partial knowledge of God’s Word will limit ability to cooperate with Him, so there is a need for evangelism and learning the full Gospel (MT 28:19-20). If a moralist truthseeker (on the basis of general revelation) is taught about God (perhaps via the OT), then he/she may choose to believe in God or become a theist. If theists are taught the Gospel (NT), then they may choose to believe/accept Jesus as Christ. In both cases salvation is a gift/grace from God received by faith “from first to last” (RM 1:17).

 

[lrs68]

Systematic means methodically mining the text for its teaching and harmonizing it with other passages on the same topic.

This is interesting because it's like in the LAW the Hebrews were only allowed to eat meat animals that chew the cud. In Jewish Theology "chewing the cud" literally means chewing the same thing over and over and over and over until it's ready for digestion. But God was instructing to read\study and read\study and read\study and read\study until we have perfect understanding.

 

[GWH]

This is interesting because it's like in the LAW the Hebrews were only allowed to eat meat animals that chew the cud. In Jewish Theology "chewing the cud" literally means chewing the same thing over and over and over and over until it's ready for digestion. But God was instructing to read\study and read\study and read\study and read\study until we have perfect understanding.

It worked for me! (I have read/studied four Bible translations :^)

 

[lrs68]

It worked for me! (I have read/studied four Bible translations :^)

I believe it did and commend you for the effort you made in the process of learning God's Holy Word.

 

[PaulThomson]

This is interesting because it's like in the LAW the Hebrews were only allowed to eat meat animals that chew the cud. In Jewish Theology "chewing the cud" literally means chewing the same thing over and over and over and over until it's ready for digestion. But God was instructing to read\study and read\study and read\study and read\study until we have perfect understanding.

Personally, I prefer inductive Bible study. https://research.lifeway.com/2014/01/30/seven-advantages-of-inductive-bible-study/

 

[GWH]

I believe it did and commend you for the effort you made in the process of learning God's Holy Word.

Ditto. HAND

 

[GWH]

Personally, I prefer inductive Bible study. https://research.lifeway.com/2014/01/30/seven-advantages-of-inductive-bible-study/

Can BS be both?

 

[PaulThomson]

Can BS be both?

There's a BS form of everything.

 

[GWH]

There's a BS form of everything.

Yes, every silver lining has a cloud.
Every understanding of GW has its detractors,
until truth gets sorted/revealed at the Judgment.

 

[GWH]

EPH 2:11-12 – “Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called 'uncircumcised' by those who call themselves 'the circumcision' (that done in the body by the hands of men)—remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world."

“Therefore, remember that formerly” – this is a flashback to before the salvation described in v. 7b-10
“you who are Gentiles by birth” – this refers to all nonJews, and brought forward includes Muslims
“and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” - this describes the separation of Israel from the rest of humanity worked by Moses
“(that done in the body by the hands of men)” – this refers to the physical operation of circumcision
“remember that at that time you were separate from Christ” – this refers to “formerly” in v.11
“excluded from citizenship in Israel” – they were separate from the Old as well as the New Covenant
“and foreigners to the covenants of the promise” – this reiterates and combines the previous phrases
“without hope and without God in the world” – except for what could be discerned from creation and conscience per RM 1:20 & 2:14-15

Circumcision is described as “that done in the body by the hands of men”.
It signified faith and the righteousness of Christ that is imputed or credited to believers in Christ (Rom. 3:21-22, 4:3-24),
who said the world would recognize believers by their love and unity (John 13:35, 17:20-23).
Thus, a hateful and divisive spirit (1John 4:19-21, Tit. 3:10-11) is a spiritual cancer in the body of Christ,
which is not an honorable part (1Cor. 12:12-26) but rather will be cut off by the right hand of God
(Matt. 3:8-10, Rom. 11:20-22, Mark 12:36, Rev. 19:11-16).

 

[PaulThomson]

Circumcision is described as “that done in the body by the hands of men”.
It signified faith and the righteousness of Christ that is imputed or credited to believers in Christ (Rom. 3:21-22, 4:3-24),

I don't see how you get this claim from the texts you cite. Could you explain further how circumcision equates to faith and the righteousness of Christ imputed to believers in Christ? What do you mean by "the righteousness of Christ"?

 

[GWH]

I don't see how you get this claim from the texts you cite. Could you explain further how circumcision equates to faith and the righteousness of Christ imputed to believers in Christ? What do you mean by "the righteousness of Christ"?

Your questions are answered by the texts, and we have discussed how faith like Abraham's is imputed or credited or counted as righteousness, which means moral perfection or perfect love and justness or sinlessness, which is why his unjust death is viewed by God as atoning for the sins of humanity. These truths are directly related to the next passage:

EPH 2:13-15a – “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility , by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,”

"But now in Christ Jesus" - in CJ was the key phrase in the first chapter, meaning "because of saving faith in CJ as Lord"
"you who once were far away have been brought near" - the Gentiles who were separate from the Jews are no longer such
"through the blood of Christ" - because of the death of Jesus
"For he himself is our peace" - Jesus' atonement had made moot the separation
"who has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility" - two phrases describing the separation
"by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations" - by fulfilling the reason for the separation
"His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two" - the purpose of the Law was to prepare the way for the Gospel
"thus making peace" - God's peace plan made possible fellowship of Him with humanity and of all people with each other