TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!
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The seven seals are time of the end events. The martyred great tribulation saints who's souls are in the 5th seal is time of the end; martyred during the 42 months of the beast leading up to Jesus's return.
They will be brought back to life in Revelation 20:4-6 to reign and rule with Jesus.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
They will be brought back to life in Revelation 20:4-6 to reign and rule with Jesus.
Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
You should look a little closer at the 70 weeks. Daniel 9:24...70 weeks are determined upon Thy people, and upon Thy holy city, to finish the transgression...Can stop here a moment. What transgression? The filling of the cup of God's wrath and the outpouring of that wrath. Where? The holy city. Jerusalem perhaps? On whom? Thy people. Sounds like Israel.When was this aaccomplished? 70 AD.
Daniel 9:25 adds more information. 69 weeks is 483 years. From the command given to rebuild, that coincides with when Jesus began His public ministry. This is the beginning of the 70th week.
So now we know the 70th week begins with the ministry of Jesus and ends with the destruction of Israel.
The rest of the chapter gives details about what happens during the 70th week.
So the wrath was not concerning martyrs. It is the wrath spoken of by John the Baptist. The cup of God's wrath ran full with the crucifixion of Christ, and the wrath was culminated in the destruction of the holy city and the inhabitants still there.
Daniel 9:25 adds more information. 69 weeks is 483 years. From the command given to rebuild, that coincides with when Jesus began His public ministry. This is the beginning of the 70th week.
So now we know the 70th week begins with the ministry of Jesus and ends with the destruction of Israel.
The rest of the chapter gives details about what happens during the 70th week.
So the wrath was not concerning martyrs. It is the wrath spoken of by John the Baptist. The cup of God's wrath ran full with the crucifixion of Christ, and the wrath was culminated in the destruction of the holy city and the inhabitants still there.
Time of the end of what? If your answer is the time of the end of the old covenant then bingo. The destruction of Israel coincided with the end of the covenant because the sanctions for not fulfilling the covenant were completed.
If you don't get this understanding correct, error will inevitably ensue.
If you don't get this understanding correct, error will inevitably ensue.
This is getting quite silly.
Gen 15
18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: 19The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, 20And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, 21And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
Jer 31~~
35This is what the LORD says,
He who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
The LORD of armies is His name:
36“If this fixed order departs
From Me,” declares the LORD,
“Then the descendants of Israel also will cease
To be a nation before Me forever.”
37This is what the LORD says:
“If the heavens above can be measured
And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
Then I will also reject all the descendants of Israel
For everything that they have done,” declares the LORD.
38“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead, to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. 40And the entire valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be uprooted or overthrown ever again.”
Gen 15
18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: 19The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, 20And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, 21And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
Jer 31~~
35This is what the LORD says,
He who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
The LORD of armies is His name:
36“If this fixed order departs
From Me,” declares the LORD,
“Then the descendants of Israel also will cease
To be a nation before Me forever.”
37This is what the LORD says:
“If the heavens above can be measured
And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
Then I will also reject all the descendants of Israel
For everything that they have done,” declares the LORD.
38“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead, to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. 40And the entire valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be uprooted or overthrown ever again.”
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The people of the prince who shall come in Daniel 9:26 destroyed the temple in 70 AD.
The prince who shall come in Daniel 9:27 will be the person who becomes the Antichrist, who as the King of Israel coming in his own name will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years as required by Moses of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-31.
No, the ministry of the messiah is not mentioned in Daniel 9. Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15, hailed as the messiah, the King of Israel. 4 days later, Jesus was crucified. The 7 year 70th week is still unfulfilled.
John 12:
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
No it is not. Some is. The resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints is not in the Tanach (OT).
The prince who shall come in Daniel 9:27 will be the person who becomes the Antichrist, who as the King of Israel coming in his own name will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years as required by Moses of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-31.
No, the ministry of the messiah is not mentioned in Daniel 9. Jesus arrived in Jerusalem in John 12:12-15, hailed as the messiah, the King of Israel. 4 days later, Jesus was crucified. The 7 year 70th week is still unfulfilled.
John 12:
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,
15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
No it is not. Some is. The resurrection of the martyred great tribulation saints is not in the Tanach (OT).
No. Time of the end of Satan and his angels activities into the affairs of man. Satan and his angels kingdom of mystery Babylon the great will be destroyed in the second half of the 7 years.
Satan, when cast down to earth in Revelation 12, will have a time, times, half times left. Which does not fit into you 1st century scenario.
Satan, when cast down to earth in Revelation 12, will have a time, times, half times left. Which does not fit into you 1st century scenario.
YES!
The "69 Weeks" [total, to that point] were concluded on this very day ^ ...
... the day when Jesus SAID the Lk19:41-44 thing [read it] and DID the Zech 9:9 thing... BOTH having to do with "the city" / "Jerusalem" (i.e. the Dan9:24 time-prophecy... ["... are determined upon THY [Daniel's] people, AND upon THY [Daniel's] holy city"]).
RIGHT!
[then, shortly "AFTER," He was "CUT OFF"--Dan9:26a.]
The "69 Weeks" [total, to that point] were concluded on this very day ^ ...
... the day when Jesus SAID the Lk19:41-44 thing [read it] and DID the Zech 9:9 thing... BOTH having to do with "the city" / "Jerusalem" (i.e. the Dan9:24 time-prophecy... ["... are determined upon THY [Daniel's] people, AND upon THY [Daniel's] holy city"]).
RIGHT!
[then, shortly "AFTER," He was "CUT OFF"--Dan9:26a.]
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I agree. Joshua 21:43...And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land He sware to give unto their fathers...Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
And you left out the most important part of Jeremiah 31...verses 31-34:
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant I made with your fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant I make with the house of Israel; After those days saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and remember their sin no more.
This is the new covenant. After those days...refers to after the destruction of Israel. It was disingenuous to give the verses you did in Jeremiah 31 without first giving the reason for them.
And you left out the most important part of Jeremiah 31...verses 31-34:
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant I made with your fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant I make with the house of Israel; After those days saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and remember their sin no more.
This is the new covenant. After those days...refers to after the destruction of Israel. It was disingenuous to give the verses you did in Jeremiah 31 without first giving the reason for them.
Satan will have only a time, times, half time left after being cast down to earth. Then in Revelation 20:1-3 he will be cast into the bottomless pit prison. Not the lake of fire at that time.
When was Satan exposed in the 1st century and bound in a chain, in your scenario ?
Ezekiel 28:16-19 is about Satan cast down to earth and being made physically seen by the kings of the earth.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Cameron, your 1st century scenario has no way to account for the magnitude of that day. And the mount of Olives has yet to be split, half to the north, half to the south. Zechariah 14:3-4
When was Satan exposed in the 1st century and bound in a chain, in your scenario ?
Ezekiel 28:16-19 is about Satan cast down to earth and being made physically seen by the kings of the earth.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Cameron, your 1st century scenario has no way to account for the magnitude of that day. And the mount of Olives has yet to be split, half to the north, half to the south. Zechariah 14:3-4
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At Jesus' Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), this ^ isn't what happens to satan at that point in the chronology.
Rather, at that point the beast and the false prophet, those two, will be "cast alive into lake of fire burning with brimstone" (19:20c) but as for satan (20:1-3) at that point he will be cast into "the bottomless pit" until after the 1000 years [so Rev19:20c wasn't "the end of time"], after which [after the 1000 yrs] "he must be loosed a little season"
[why does it take me SO LONG to type just that little bit! LOL]
Rather, at that point the beast and the false prophet, those two, will be "cast alive into lake of fire burning with brimstone" (19:20c) but as for satan (20:1-3) at that point he will be cast into "the bottomless pit" until after the 1000 years [so Rev19:20c wasn't "the end of time"], after which [after the 1000 yrs] "he must be loosed a little season"
[why does it take me SO LONG to type just that little bit! LOL]
I'm not sure why you think anything I referred to was an attack against anyone's rapture doctrine. To me I was trying to convey that the people we were speaking of(ones in the 1st century who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place) also had followers in the 3rd and 4th century ad and they "corrected" the book we refer to as the Gospel of Matthew to reflect their belief. Afterwards Jerome obtained it and translated it into Latin, it was included into the LV and all our modern translations translated it into one translation or the other. The error is that they combined the gospel of the Hebrews(Ebionite) with the Gospel of Matthew(the Apostles autograph)...
I apologize for saying this so bluntly because many have never thought to read about the Q source or the M source discussion of Matthew most assume it to be good as gold. For the most part I notice that Jerome,Eusabius,Pamphilus ect. in the late 300ad's(380-400) were themselves not sure if the translations they obtained were correct(they corrected them by their own admittance in their own writings).. Not to drag the post on and on but we often hear of those disagreeing with Paul's writings(there's a thread about it here on CC contemplating what if his writings did not exist). The friction is not that Mark,Luke John to Revelation disagree with Paul it's that Mark,Luke John to Revelation disagree with Matthew(or the gospel of the Hebrews)...
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Yes. Satan and his fallen angels are cast out after the Rev 12 war. Because of him accusing the brethren. Likely the newly raptured brethren of Rev 4 & 5!
Great relief and great rejoicing by the angelic host follows.
They are ALSO vexed and tormented by the presence of Satan just as we are. A lot of people do not realize this. That there is anguish and chaos in heaven much like there is on earth.
Not much longer though thank God.
Great relief and great rejoicing by the angelic host follows.
They are ALSO vexed and tormented by the presence of Satan just as we are. A lot of people do not realize this. That there is anguish and chaos in heaven much like there is on earth.
Not much longer though thank God.
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