The Abomination of Desolation
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Why is it so hard to see that God indeed IS concerned with political nations of this world.
The book of Daniel has A LOT to say about political kingdoms. God also is the one who sets up these kings and rulers. So God indeed IS concerned with political nations of this world.
Read the book of Daniel. It goes through all the world kingdoms from medo-persia to rome. It even predicts Rome being SPLIT into two!
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I don't see the nations as kingdoms of this world as part of that focus of political nations. Our struggle is not in respect to the things seen but the unseen spiritual matters.
Its not a famine for food necessary for the bodies of death but for a hearing of the gospel .
The gospel is the power of God unto any nation.
And it would seem that it is God who tears downs the idea of Kings and rulers of this world. Kings and rulers of this world appose his design of walking by faith
How would you reconcile the political nations as part of the gospel ? Do you have an example?
I don't see the nations as kingdoms of this world as part of that focus of political nations. Our struggle is not in respect to the things seen but the unseen spiritual matters.
Its not a famine for food necessary for the bodies of death but for a hearing of the gospel .
The gospel is the power of God unto any nation.
And it would seem that it is God who tears downs the idea of Kings and rulers of this world. Kings and rulers of this world appose his design of walking by faith
How would you reconcile the political nations as part of the gospel ? Do you have an example?
Ever heard of harmonizing the gospels???
ON the OLIVET DISCOURSE
If you take Matt 24 and compare it to Luke 21 you will see who the abomination of desolation is. The bible explains the bible to those who have eyes to see.
ON the OLIVET DISCOURSE
If you take Matt 24 and compare it to Luke 21 you will see who the abomination of desolation is. The bible explains the bible to those who have eyes to see.
The holy place or invisible place of God does not come after the things seen, the temporal . But does come after the things not seen the eternal .
The idea of making the Holy place as place seen and adding temples to it. In the end of the matter takes away from the faith principle.
Just the idea that the earthly Jerusalem is a holy place and not a shadow of the eternal not seen is a abomination of desecration in its self..
When the reformation came the holy place was restored to a period of time before kings were temporally in Israel .
No Tina "the abomination of desolation hasn't come yet. You have to remember In Daniel 9:27 the future 7-year period will be divided into two halves. The first 3 1/2 years will see the ancient temple worship restored in Jerusalem, under the protection of "the prince that shall come, (Anti-Christ)" who will have achieved sufficinent power by this time to make such a treaty with the Jews for 7 years. The last half will begin when he breaks this treaty, and demands worship of himself, that is the abomination of desolation and is the final act of Anti-Christ who will set up an idol in his own image in the holy place. Abomination is a word often used in Scripture for an idol.
A future application to Dan 9:27 is a popular and modern interpretation. A more time honored and classical interpretation would be Dan 9:27 is about Jesus, the Romans were the abomination that destroyed the temple, and all of the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. Besides, Revelation is a book with the details of the last days and a book chock full of 7s, but there is no 7 years time frame found there.
A couple way that could be looked at. One of the differences I have seen is how we understand the words "Holy Place"
A couple question I would ask.
Did Jesus as the Son of man stand in the Holy Place ?
Did he except the position of the Holy Place or did he say only God is good giving glory to the unseen father?
Did the nation of Israel when there were kings in Israel before the reformation, (Hebrews 9) stand in the Holy Place?
What is the Holy place?
I think I can literally count that high with a nap in between LOL
If 666 represented a countable number rather than used as a mark or a seal to represent unconverted mankind. From Adam to the last created being then we could count in 666 seconds.
Creating the seed (innumerable) of mankind "marked" on day six. we are given some wisdom below
Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered
Revelation 13:17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me. And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a "mark" upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.Genesis 4: 8-15
The word three denotes the end of a matter thouhout scripture, 6 6 6.
Same mark on Esau who also saw no value in the unseen things of faith and sold his birthrate for a cup of George Webb soup
666 a number no man can count, mankind, natural unconverted man.
The Hebrew word for holy is “qodesh” which means “apartness, sacredness,” or “separateness
as being set apart for God
Holy is whatever God owns as HIS alone.
1. Jesus stood in the holy place ie: when he taught in the temple as a boy
2. not sure what you are asking there
3. Hebrews nine is referring to the PRIESTS of Israel
4. There is no THE holy place, thing or person, but all that are set apart for God
God's HOLY Hill and His Holy tent in Ps 15
those are places also
I don't know if I even understood what you were looking for
I think the holy place is the place the eyes do not see. the one avenue not mixed in with the three below.
1 John 2:16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Since the kingdom of God is not of this world . Jesus I believe stood in a shadow of the holy place the temporal as that seen . When call Rabi or good master in respect to the Holy place of God not seen. Jesus said giving glory to the father not seen "only God is good" .He is the holy place our unseen city of refuge .
I think the Holy Place is in respect to the invisible glory of God You could say as the face of God that Moses sought after but God rather showed the hind parts or backside. No one can see the glory of God and live in these s earthen bodies of death.
Jesus refused standing in the Holy Place.
It is the holy place occupied partly of the antichrists, the many that are here today as those who would seduce us to believe we do need a man seen like the flesh of Jesus to teach us as the good master . One is our father in heaven, and in the same way one is our master, teacher in heaven. Call no man either father on earth or Master, Rabbi teacher . We abide in the teacher who abides in us. He will teach us all things, comfort us and as a bonus bring to mind the things he has taught us
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John3:25=27
This is any church that declares only they have the truth don't try and seek the approval of God except by them (the spirit of the antichrists)
Garee, If your question about what is the holy place that the abom of desolation stands where it should not be, that would be the army of Rome surrounding Jerusalem (God's HOLY city)
I've posted at least 5 times that the abom of desoation is the army of Rome and we know this by harmonizing Matt 24 with Luke 21, both refer to the Olivet Discourse by Jesus. The bible always explains the bible, someitmes you just have to read a little further.
Its interesting to note that in Luke the term AOB is replaced by Jerusalem surrounded by Armies.
The whole city was considered Holy not just the Temple. Also in Matthew Jesus was talking to his Disciples
then. So shunting that warning forward 2000 plus years makes a nonsense of it. Its fortunate that the
early Church in Jerusalem didn't do the same otherwise they wouldn't have escaped the City in 70AD
Hi thanks for the reply and opportunity to share my view. I am not claiming to be a teacher but again sharing the way I hear or believe what the word of God informs us or as some say offering some home made bread.
I believe I understand your point which it seems is comparing the temporal thing seen, "a army of Rome", to the "kingdoms seen of this world" and calling that a Holy Place. which is a shadow of the eternal. I believe you could be turning the things upside down as did some of the Jews before they were instructed by the prophets in various ways given the correct order" right side up."
The things seen are a shadow of the Holy Place as the thing not seen not..... the Holy Place itself.. In the end (Isaiah 29:16) it instructions seems to work or brings back the understanding that comes from hearing God not seen and not hearing men, seen.
A proper understanding between the things of God not seen and those of men must be divided or a person could end up like Peter in Mathew 16: 22-23 .Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy when he forbid the lord from doing what he came to do. But it clearly show how not dividing the differences offend Him because it does take away His understanding
Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing "framed" say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
It would if you are using the things seen, the temporal as if they were the things not seen, the eternal according to the prescription in 2 Corinthians 4:18.
The Holy place would point to the invisible presence of God, or the Bosum of Abraham . The future glory that will be revealed in the new heavens and earth.
The Holy Place is not assigned to the temporal or what the eyes see .His kingdom does not come by observation .
In that way I believe Jesus says; "its an evil generation". The thinking of natural man who says there is no God in their hearts. But even Christians who cannot call other fools do foolish things as God does work in them to form Christ in their hearts. Like the Galatians in chapter 3 .
Note.... (purple in parenthesis) my personal added understanding to try and make a poinrt
Galatians 3: 1-5 King James Version (KJV) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?(as the temporal things seen) Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (the unseen eternal)
They were reprimanded for not following the right order .Saying if it was not the work of God that worked in them to receive the Holy Spirit or good news. Why would a person look to the temporal to get the proper unseen understanding?
Its because they fail to understand that the Bible deals with spiritual things. It also uses different forms of literature symbols, numbers and types. Finally the Bible explains itself because it uses these over and over again. If we don't bother to study it properly we end up with 200 million Jets or Chinese Armies
Why would you say no man can count the number? The bible tells those who have understanding to count the number.
I would think to count the number that is already given (666) would have another meaning. Like what does the number count for or represent in a spiritual way. Seeing without parables Christ spoke not hiding the spiritual understanding from natural unconverted mankind?
The foundation of 666 is based 6. On the sixth day from the dust of the field God formed man and breathed into him the spirit essence of spirit life.
In that way the word 6 represents natural man as in Adam all die, the all under the letter of the law.
In respect to the unseen spirit of grace as many as the father gave to the Son live as those given a new spirit . Like Abel .
Six three times with three representing the end of the matter. The 666 represents a number no man could count . Just as God uses the phrase Holy, Holy, Holy. The number three or its compounds occurs hundreds of times. Most of these display a common use such as to mark quantity whether in enumerating persons, things, or activities.
Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that "if" a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
The mark of Cain is a mark or number that represents unconverted man. They would be the ones that sell the gospel and not but the truth of God, having no interest in spiritual matters.
Its been turned in a "superstitious sign" or literal mark . Christ said its an evil generation (666) natural unconverted man that does seek after it .
Its not a literal mark as a sign that we are to avoid but avoid making the grace of God without effect by some putting their hope in a sign .
Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and U generation "seeketh after a sign"; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Another suggestion it would seem that the number 666 also is represented as 2/3 again in respect to the unconverted.
How about this, if we count the number 666 we have 66 tens + 6 ones? Do those numbers represent anything in the 66 books of the bible.... maybe man (6) adding to the word of God (66).
That's the only way I know of to count any number.
The number 666 appears in Chronicles.Its the number of gold bars merchants give to Solomon. Solomon
was famous for his wisdom but he ended up filling the Temple with Idols worshiped by his many wives and concubines. Here is WISDOM! Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the Beast for it is the number of a man. His number is 666. I think Solomon is one of a number of types portrayed in the Bible of the ultimate Antichrist.