The Age of the Universe

[pottersclay]

 

[bojack]

I'd bet this didn't take all night but only an instant when God moved ..
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and take of every one of them a rod according to the house of their fathers, of all their princes according to the house of their fathers twelve rods: write thou every man's name upon his rod.
3 And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi: for one rod shall be for the head of the house of their fathers.
4 And thou shalt lay them up in the tabernacle of the congregation before the testimony, where I will meet with you.
5 And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom: and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you.
6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.
7 And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness.
8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.
9 And Moses brought out all the rods from before the LORD unto all the children of Israel: and they looked, and took every man his rod.
10 And the LORD said unto Moses, Bring Aaron's rod again before the testimony, to be kept for a token against the rebels; and thou shalt quite take away their murmurings from me, that they die not.

 

[bojack]

Somewhere these was or is a 24 hour day that contains all time and all of history. I am a dispensationalist where one day is equal to 1,000 years. The age or era we live in began 12,990 years ago when the ice melted. There was a 90% extinction at the time. This is when the woolly mammoths and Saber tooth tigers died off and went extinct. The Crocodile and Turtle survived this extinction. They were a part of the 10% remnant that repopulated the Earth. We find Adam and Eve in the Garden in Eden on the Eighth day. God rested on the seventh day. We are very close to the beginning of the last day. The 1,000 year reign of Christ. This is known as the Kingdom age when the Kingdoms of this world become the Kingdoms of God. People talk about the manifest sons (daughters) of God. When we become joint heirs with Christ.

A day is actually 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds. There is talk about a perfect day. So a literal 24 hour day has not actually happened yet. I am assuming that a literal 24 hour day would give us a 360 day year. Instead of 364 1/4 days. So for me a literal 24 hour day has not happened yet.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
You can also say a day is from sunset until sunset begins the next day, 12 hrs day light varying lengths according to season and 4 watches dark/night .. I could even say Jesus will come at the 3rd hr .. I just can't say which time zone ..

 

[JamOn]

Somewhere these was or is a 24 hour day that contains all time and all of history. I am a dispensationalist where one day is equal to 1,000 years. The age or era we live in began 12,990 years ago when the ice melted. There was a 90% extinction at the time. This is when the woolly mammoths and Saber tooth tigers died off and went extinct. The Crocodile and Turtle survived this extinction. They were a part of the 10% remnant that repopulated the Earth. We find Adam and Eve in the Garden in Eden on the Eighth day. God rested on the seventh day. We are very close to the beginning of the last day. The 1,000 year reign of Christ. This is known as the Kingdom age when the Kingdoms of this world become the Kingdoms of God. People talk about the manifest sons (daughters) of God. When we become joint heirs with Christ.

A day is actually 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds. There is talk about a perfect day. So a literal 24 hour day has not actually happened yet. I am assuming that a literal 24 hour day would give us a 360 day year. Instead of 364 1/4 days. So for me a literal 24 hour day has not happened yet.

IMO time really does go right out the window right out side of earth.

 

[crossnote]

Sure God's time is different than our time; His language is different than our language but He speaks to the Prophets in the people's language so it amounts to our understanding of a day equalling God's day. This is why He clarified His meaning of day by adding 'evening and morning, one day'.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have read the Bible five times. I always read and study the begats. It is clear that the gentiles did not descend from Adam and Eve in the Bible. This is why we are adopted into the family of God and like a branch grafted onto a tree. "For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. " (Romans 11:21)

You better read it 5 more times, because what you stated here is not in scripture

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ugh, this thread went down fast.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I am suggesting that Eve in the Bible is not the mother of all the people alive on earth today. I can understand your conclusion from looking at that passage but that must not be what that passage means. Eve had two sons, Cain and Abel. We are told that Cain killed Abel and that Cain would be: "cursed and banished". "Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, this day You have driven me from the face of the earth, and from Your face I will be hidden; I will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” (Genesis 4:13) What is this: "whoever finds me will kill me". Clearly there are people living outside of Eden (Adamah). This is what history tells us and this is what Science tells us. There were people living in Nineveh 9,000 years ago. We do not see Eve in the Garden of Eden until 6,000 years ago. Göbekli Tepe Turkey is believed to be 10,000 years old. Yet Eve is in Eden 6,000 years ago. If we go back 40,000 years we find sewing needles and fish hooks made out of bone, along with fishing nets. These sort of artifacts go back long before Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Chedder man goes back 10,000 years and from the DNA found in his tooth they found a living relatives of his working at the university in the nearby city. Again 4,000 years before Adam and Eve.

"THE WORLD’S OLDEST SEWING NEEDLE has been discovered in Siberia’s Denisova Cave, and it doesn’t look like it was made by Homo sapiens. According to the Siberian Times, the little needle was likely created by an extinct species of human known as the Denisovans.

The needle is made of an unidentified bird bone, measuring just under three inches long, and is thought to date back some 50,000 years. It even has an eye carved in the top through which to string thread. As the article points out, it’s probably still usable today."

How's that radiocarbon dating thing going?

 

[JohnR7]

How's that radiocarbon dating thing going?

That is a joke because they have to calibrate it. I use the expansion rate of the universe. The Spindown rate of the Earth and the receding rate of the moon. Also the speed of light. So IF the Universe is NOT 12.990 billion years old, then God created the Universe with the appearance of being 12.990 billion years old. So then we have to ask why did God create the Universe with the appearance of Age? Also the earth has been formed in layers. At some point in time we had the great oxygen event that turned everything red. Even the clay God used to make Adam. If you look at river rock we ask how long did it take the river to make the rock smooth like that? God gave us a wonderful world to study and we can learn a lot from the study of God's Creation. Why is it that the age we live in from the beginning is 12,990 years? How does this line up so well with a 12.990 billion year old universe? Do we really believe this is a coincidence? There are people who believe there are no coincidences in life. Everything has a reason and a purpose. God has a reason and a purpose that He put us here on this Earth at this point in time.

 

[JohnR7]

You better read it 5 more times, because what you stated here is not in scripture

Yes what I say is scriptural. I check everything out before I put it here on the board. We can only work with what we have to work with. We do not have all wisdom, knowledge and understanding. So we are limited. God has given us a lot to study and examine. We can learn a lot from the rocks (geology). Every subject there is in science we can learn a lot about God and the Bible.

The important parts of the Bible I have read maybe 100 times. The most important word in the Bible is the first word. Because we learn that Jesus the Son (Ben) of God was given as a grain offering so that Heaven and Earth could be reconciled. All of this we can learn if we study the first word in the Bible. We learn about Adam and Eve and all of the beginnings we find with them. Then we learn about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Just the first three chapters in Genesis is plenty enough for us to study and attempt to understand. Just what is God telling us here. Each word has profound meaning that we could study forever. Even every letter in the Hebrew has great symbolic meaning. So if we study the Hebrew letters then we can understand the meaning of the words. Of course in Bible school they teach context and this can help us to verify what we learn through the study of the Hebrew language. Jesus tells us that every stroke of the pen has meaning: "For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:18) We count a little more then 300,000 letters in the Torah but if they count every jot and tittle we are told there is exactly 600,000.

 

[JohnR7]

I could even say Jesus will come at the 3rd hr .. I just can't say which time zone ..

I would assume that would be Jerusalem when HIS feet touch the ground at Mount of Olives. Maybe the third hour of the third day on one of the "Jewish" festivals.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes what I say is scriptural. I check everything out before I put it here on the board. We can only work with what we have to work with. We do not have all wisdom, knowledge and understanding. So we are limited. God has given us a lot to study and examine. We can learn a lot from the rocks (geology). Every subject there is in science we can learn a lot about God and the Bible.

The important parts of the Bible I have read maybe 100 times. The most important word in the Bible is the first word. Because we learn that Jesus the Son (Ben) of God was given as a grain offering so that Heaven and Earth could be reconciled. All of this we can learn if we study the first word in the Bible. We learn about Adam and Eve and all of the beginnings we find with them. Then we learn about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Just the first three chapters in Genesis is plenty enough for us to study and attempt to understand. Just what is God telling us here. Each word has profound meaning that we could study forever. Even every letter in the Hebrew has great symbolic meaning. So if we study the Hebrew letters then we can understand the meaning of the words. Of course in Bible school they teach context and this can help us to verify what we learn through the study of the Hebrew language. Jesus tells us that every stroke of the pen has meaning: "For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Matthew 5:18) We count a little more then 300,000 letters in the Torah but if they count every jot and tittle we are told there is exactly 600,000.

your still wrong

no matter how many times you read it.

Adam and eve are first two humans to ever walk the earth. period

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

That is a joke because they have to calibrate it. I use the expansion rate of the universe. The Spindown rate of the Earth and the receding rate of the moon. Also the speed of light. So IF the Universe is NOT 12.990 billion years old, then God created the Universe with the appearance of being 12.990 billion years old. So then we have to ask why did God create the Universe with the appearance of Age? Also the earth has been formed in layers. At some point in time we had the great oxygen event that turned everything red. Even the clay God used to make Adam. If you look at river rock we ask how long did it take the river to make the rock smooth like that? God gave us a wonderful world to study and we can learn a lot from the study of God's Creation. Why is it that the age we live in from the beginning is 12,990 years? How does this line up so well with a 12.990 billion year old universe? Do we really believe this is a coincidence? There are people who believe there are no coincidences in life. Everything has a reason and a purpose. God has a reason and a purpose that He put us here on this Earth at this point in time.

Don't make the mistake of believing that skepticism over "Billions of years" is a disregard for scientific interest in creation.

Theoretical science has weaknesses, piles of cock-sure arrogance and many assumptions.

Did God create Adam as a full grown adult male or an infant? Or an embryo? There was no Eve yet.
Was God a liar if Adam was formed as an adult from the earth? With "the appearance" of being a man of say 25?

Insist on "billions of years" if you must.
But if I am to accept that assumption please stop claiming you KNOW ANYTHING about events that happened billions of years ago.
Conditions in a universe that old could have varied exceedingly.
The more ancient creation is the less we can possibly observe or discover about it.
The older it is, the more we need to rely on what God has revealed to us.

 

[keithr]

What I say is that it took God 12.990 billion years to create Adam.

Ah, but what does God say? He says:

Ex 20:1Ex 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: And God spake all these words, saying,
Ex 20:9-11 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So God says He created heaven and earth, and all living things on the earth, in 6 days. He says we should work for 6 days of the week, but rest on the seventh day, as a reminder that it only took Him 6 days to create the universe and all life on earth. Note that God used the same Hebrew word (yowm) for the days of the week and the 6 days that He spent creating, and the seventh day that He rested, confirming that the creation was performed in ony 6 days, where each day is about 24 hours.

 

[keithr]

Ex 20:1Ex 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: And God spake all these words, saying,

Sorry, that was a cut & paste error, it should have just been:

Ex 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Ex 20:9-11 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[keithr]

Also the speed of light. So IF the Universe is NOT 12.990 billion years old, then God created the Universe with the appearance of being 12.990 billion years old.

Scientists have mainly extimated the age of the universe based on the speed of light, assuming that the speed of light has been the same since the beginning of the universe. Latest scientific anaylsis shows that the spped of light is not constant, but it is slowing down. The rate of slowing is exponential, so that the speed of light was millions of times faster than it is now. Based on that the latest estimates are that the universe is no older than about 10,000 years - much closer to what the Bible says!

Here's a quote from Dr. Chuck Missler's 'Cosmic Codes: Hidden Messages From The Edge Of Eternity: Bible Codes':

The speed of light has been measured 163 times by 16 different methods over the past 300 years. However, Australian physicist Barry Setterfield and mathematician Trevor Norman, re-examining the known experimental measurements to date, have suggested a highly controversial discovery: the speed of light appears to have been slowing down!

1657: Roemer 307,600. +/- 5400 km/sec
1875: Harvard 299,921. +/- 13 km/sec
1983: NBS (laser method): 299,792.4358 +/- 0.0003 km/sec

The speed of light is now measured as 299,792.4358 kilometers per second. (This is approximately 186,000 miles/second, or one foot per nanosecond.) The Canadian mathematician, Alan Montgomery, has reported a computer analysis supporting the Setterfield/Norman results. His model indicates that the decay of velocity of light closely follows a cosecant-squared curve, and has been asymptotic since 1958. If he is correct, the speed of light was 10-30% faster in the time of Christ; twice as fast in the days of Solomon; four times as fast in days of Abraham, and perhaps more than ten million times faster prior to 3000 B.C.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
The first six days of creation are all bounded by evenings and mornings
whereas the seventh isn't bounded; i.e. it's an open-ended day; which
means that as far as the current cosmos is concerned, God is still on
sabbatical and hasn't created anything new for it since the sixth day ended.

The seventh day will finally be terminated when the next cosmos is created
as per Isa 65:17, 2Pet 3:13, and Rev 21:1.
_

 

[JohnR7]

Did God create Adam as a full grown adult male or an infant? Or an embryo? There was no Eve yet. Was God a liar if Adam was formed as an adult from the earth? With "the appearance" of being a man of say 25?

I read Bryan Sykes book: "The Seven Daughters of Eve". This was actually a very interesting book and shows what is currently know about DNA. If people want to study up on what Science has to say they can. If they do not want to know, then no one is forcing anyone to do anything.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scientists have mainly extimated the age of the universe based on the speed of light, assuming that the speed of light has been the same since the beginning of the universe. Latest scientific anaylsis shows that the spped of light is not constant, but it is slowing down. The rate of slowing is exponential, so that the speed of light was millions of times faster than it is now. Based on that the latest estimates are that the universe is no older than about 10,000 years - much closer to what the Bible says!

Here's a quote from Dr. Chuck Missler's 'Cosmic Codes: Hidden Messages From The Edge Of Eternity: Bible Codes':

The speed of light has been measured 163 times by 16 different methods over the past 300 years. However, Australian physicist Barry Setterfield and mathematician Trevor Norman, re-examining the known experimental measurements to date, have suggested a highly controversial discovery: the speed of light appears to have been slowing down!

1657: Roemer 307,600. +/- 5400 km/sec
1875: Harvard 299,921. +/- 13 km/sec
1983: NBS (laser method): 299,792.4358 +/- 0.0003 km/sec

The speed of light is now measured as 299,792.4358 kilometers per second. (This is approximately 186,000 miles/second, or one foot per nanosecond.) The Canadian mathematician, Alan Montgomery, has reported a computer analysis supporting the Setterfield/Norman results. His model indicates that the decay of velocity of light closely follows a cosecant-squared curve, and has been asymptotic since 1958. If he is correct, the speed of light was 10-30% faster in the time of Christ; twice as fast in the days of Solomon; four times as fast in days of Abraham, and perhaps more than ten million times faster prior to 3000 B.C.

If god created the heavens and earth for mankind. Then he did not to be bound by science. The stats could have appears the day created. Otherwise they are useless to
Man

 

[JohnR7]

So God says He created heaven and earth, and all living things on the earth, in 6 days.

They say that hidden in those 6 literal days is all time and all history.