"The Anatomy...

[GRACE_ambassador]

...Of God's Plan Of Salvation

“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world​

unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;​

and hath committed unto us The Word of Reconciliation.”​

—II Cor. 5:19​

A new teaching has recently been introduced into Grace circles that has caused a great deal of concern among the brethren, ourselves included. Essentially it is being proposed that the sins of the world were forgiven
when God reconciled the world to Himself...

...If this is true, then we are left with this conclusion: the terrorists who plotted and carried out the evil attack on the World Trade Center, where
nearly 3,000 souls perished, will never be judged for their sins against humanity...

...Universal Reconciliation/Universalism is the teaching that God is going
to save all the unsaved in the end, including Satan and his fallen host...

...upon further investigation it is actually a serious departure from what
The Scriptures teach on the subject...
"

View attachment 27054
'link'

Grace, Peace, and JOY!

 

[Jocund]

If this is true, then we are left with this conclusion: the terrorists who plotted and carried out the evil attack on the World Trade Center, where
nearly 3,000 souls perished, will never be judged for their sins against humanity...

If a murderer can repent and come to Christ, it is possible for the plotting minds behind the terrorist event to do the same.

 

[soberxp]

The Koran says that , who shed innocent blood,Allah will not hold him guiltless.

But the Bible says, "Forgiving others is your glory."

 

[Gideon300]

If a murderer can repent and come to Christ, it is possible for the plotting minds behind the terrorist event to do the same.

The key is repent and come to Christ. Universalism leaves that essential out.

 

[Gideon300]

...Of God's Plan Of Salvation

“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world​

unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;​

and hath committed unto us The Word of Reconciliation.”​

—II Cor. 5:19​

A new teaching has recently been introduced into Grace circles that has caused a great deal of concern among the brethren, ourselves included. Essentially it is being proposed that the sins of the world were forgiven
when God reconciled the world to Himself...

...If this is true, then we are left with this conclusion: the terrorists who plotted and carried out the evil attack on the World Trade Center, where
nearly 3,000 souls perished, will never be judged for their sins against humanity...

...Universal Reconciliation/Universalism is the teaching that God is going
to save all the unsaved in the end, including Satan and his fallen host...

...upon further investigation it is actually a serious departure from what
The Scriptures teach on the subject...
"

View attachment 27054
'link'

Grace, Peace, and JOY!

The teaching is dangerous because it is partly true. John the Baptist said that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The problem is that the world does not want forgiveness. Why should unbelievers desire to be forgiven? They've done nothing wrong, as far as they are concerned. That is why God only saves sinners. The self righteous are condemned by their own words. How many times have we heard, "I'm a good person" from someone who lies, cheats, steals, hates or judges? Too many. Those people will not repent because they are self deceived.

 

[jb]

...Of God's Plan Of Salvation

“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world​

unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;​

and hath committed unto us The Word of Reconciliation.”​

—II Cor. 5:19​

A new teaching has recently been introduced into Grace circles that has caused a great deal of concern among the brethren, ourselves included. Essentially it is being proposed that the sins of the world were forgiven
when God reconciled the world to Himself...

...If this is true, then we are left with this conclusion: the terrorists who plotted and carried out the evil attack on the World Trade Center, where
nearly 3,000 souls perished, will never be judged for their sins against humanity...

...Universal Reconciliation/Universalism is the teaching that God is going
to save all the unsaved in the end, including Satan and his fallen host...

...upon further investigation it is actually a serious departure from what
The Scriptures teach on the subject...
"

View attachment 27054
'link'

Grace, Peace, and JOY!

Forgiveness is a two way avenue!

 

[Runningman]

...Of God's Plan Of Salvation

“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world​

unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;​

and hath committed unto us The Word of Reconciliation.”​

—II Cor. 5:19​

A new teaching has recently been introduced into Grace circles that has caused a great deal of concern among the brethren, ourselves included. Essentially it is being proposed that the sins of the world were forgiven
when God reconciled the world to Himself...

...If this is true, then we are left with this conclusion: the terrorists who plotted and carried out the evil attack on the World Trade Center, where
nearly 3,000 souls perished, will never be judged for their sins against humanity...

...Universal Reconciliation/Universalism is the teaching that God is going
to save all the unsaved in the end, including Satan and his fallen host...

...upon further investigation it is actually a serious departure from what
The Scriptures teach on the subject...
"

View attachment 27054
'link'

Grace, Peace, and JOY!

I believe Universalism is false in the sense everyone in the end will be saved. I believe it’s the other side of the coin as Calvinism where they believe God hand picks who is saved and who perishes. I’ll try to explain why as briefly as I can.

The key to all of this starts at the very beginning about how faith is obtained. The question is simple, if God gives faith to people so that they can believe then why doesn’t He give faith to everyone since He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked nor wills that any should perish, but all come to repentance?

If God gives the faith He requires to access His grace then there’s two basic possibilities:

1. People are predestined to be saved or destroyed based on God’s choice. Unconditional election.
2. Everyone eventually gets the faith they need and therefore everyone is saved. Universalism.

If God does not give faith to people then salvation is based on that person’s choice to have faith. Then comes the matter of whether or not faith is a work we perform or not. If faith is not a work we do, but is God’s choice, then either #1 or #2 above are true.

That’s why I say faith is something we chose to do. Therefore, God saves based on us deciding to have trust in Him and what His Son did for us.

 

[Snacks]

As the old saying goes…
No Christ, no peace.
Know Christ, know peace.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

...Of God's Plan Of Salvation

“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world​

unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;​

and hath committed unto us The Word of Reconciliation.”​

—II Cor. 5:19​

A new teaching has recently been introduced into Grace circles that has caused a great deal of concern among the brethren, ourselves included. Essentially it is being proposed that the sins of the world were forgiven
when God reconciled the world to Himself...

...If this is true, then we are left with this conclusion: the terrorists who plotted and carried out the evil attack on the World Trade Center, where
nearly 3,000 souls perished, will never be judged for their sins against humanity...

...Universal Reconciliation/Universalism is the teaching that God is going
to save all the unsaved in the end, including Satan and his fallen host...

...upon further investigation it is actually a serious departure from what
The Scriptures teach on the subject...
"

View attachment 27054
'link'

Grace, Peace, and JOY!

God does not plan things. God purposes things.

God did not purpose to eternally deliver all mankind to heaven. God purposed (choose) an elect people before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1:4). God purposed Jesus to be a sacrifice for the redemption of his elect's sins on the cross, and secure their inheritance of eternal heaven, (John 6:37-39) as his adopted children. (Eph 1:5).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The teaching is dangerous because it is partly true. John the Baptist said that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The problem is that the world does not want forgiveness. Why should unbelievers desire to be forgiven? They've done nothing wrong, as far as they are concerned. That is why God only saves sinners. The self righteous are condemned by their own words. How many times have we heard, "I'm a good person" from someone who lies, cheats, steals, hates or judges? Too many. Those people will not repent because they are self deceived.

The only people who will repent of breaking a spiritual law, of a spiritual God, are those people who have been born again, and given by God, in the new birth, a heart of flesh that can be pricked to feel guilt, instead of their old heart of stone

The unregenerate person would never repent.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I believe Universalism is false in the sense everyone in the end will be saved. I believe it’s the other side of the coin as Calvinism where they believe God hand picks who is saved and who perishes. I’ll try to explain why as briefly as I can.

The key to all of this starts at the very beginning about how faith is obtained. The question is simple, if God gives faith to people so that they can believe then why doesn’t He give faith to everyone since He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked nor wills that any should perish, but all come to repentance?

If God gives the faith He requires to access His grace then there’s two basic possibilities:

1. People are predestined to be saved or destroyed based on God’s choice. Unconditional election.
2. Everyone eventually gets the faith they need and therefore everyone is saved. Universalism.

If God does not give faith to people then salvation is based on that person’s choice to have faith. Then comes the matter of whether or not faith is a work we perform or not. If faith is not a work we do, but is God’s choice, then either #1 or #2 above are true.

That’s why I say faith is something we chose to do. Therefore, God saves based on us deciding to have trust in Him and what His Son did for us.

The unregenerate cannot believe in the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14). The regenerate have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in which, faith is a fruit of. (Eph 2: 1-5) & (Gal 5:22).

 

[Runningman]

The unregenerate cannot believe in the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14). The regenerate have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in which, faith is a fruit of. (Eph 2: 1-5) & (Gal 5:22).

You’re basically saying people are saved before they believe, but I don’t think that’s accurate. The Bible-wide call to believe would be pointless otherwise.

God draws all people to Himself:

John 12
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

God can draws all people to Himself, tries to unblind people, open their minds, soften their heart, etc and can make the “soil of someone’s heart” workable, but does not force anyone to believe anything. People can flat out reject God and they do. Spiritual regeneration does not come before faith then. If it did then it refutes its own position by saying the Holy Spirit indwells those without faith, i.e., non-believers.

John 7
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Titus 3
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

 

[soberxp]

God does not plan things. God purposes things.

God did not purpose to eternally deliver all mankind to heaven. God purposed (choose) an elect people before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1:4). God purposed Jesus to be a sacrifice for the redemption of his elect's sins on the cross, and secure their inheritance of eternal heaven, (John 6:37-39) as his adopted children. (Eph 1:5).

God has planned all things. God doesn't do his own things random. It seems that you don't know him well enough.

 

[Amosathar]

So little understanding of God's true nature. God is both inside and outside time, this is how God remains the same yesterday, today and forever. Time is a concept only we perceive as passing, but to God it has all already happened and he chooses to interact with each of us in every single moment of our existence. But at the very moment when God created the universe, to him the end of the world had already happened. He knew in that moment every thought and deed and decision that every human in the full history of mankind would ever make.

Those who are "predestined" are those who God already knows will believe the truth of the Gospel and accept salvation. So yes he desires that none should perish, but in his omniscient, he knows those who will not admit they are sinners, ask for forgiveness or accept his free gift of salvation and eternal life. Just as he knew mankind would fall and he would need to make a way of reconciliation. Why then do we need to preach the Gospel to all people? Because this knowledge of who the predestined are belongs only to God and since we don't know who those people are that will accept, then we need to reach out to everyone and let God do the rest.

Jesus sacrifice was once and for all, yes he took the punishment for all sin from mankind from then until the end of the world. So because of that sacrifice, the forgiveness and eternal life is available for everyone, BUT, they must ask for it to receive it otherwise they remain in an unforgiven state, eternally separated from God. They must be willing to accept who Jesus is, his sacrifice and the reason why he had to do it. Once again, from God's perspective he has offered this gift to all mankind without exception, even terrorists, but not everyone is going to accept it. We may think that a serial murderer or a terrorist should face judgement for what they have done, that they shouldn't get to be forgiven or receive eternal life after what they have done, but that's because we don't truly understand God's grace and mercy. For all have sinned, we have missed the mark, and fall short of the Glory of God. Sin is missing the mark, anything that is unrighteous is sin and this idea that murder is worse than lying is a manmade concept. Either sin will separate you from God, either will hurt God because he said "Be Holy for I am Holy"

All of us, even Christians hurt God as his children every day when we neglect him, we forget to include him in our everyday lives or refuse to listen and obey or even willingly sin when we know we shouldn't. God grieves and is saddened by this and at the lengths that some of mankind goes to, to do hurt or commit evil, but we have to trust the sovereignty of God that he knows what is best and how it should be handled after all it's his universe, we just live in it, he has no obligation to justify himself to us.

 

[Runningman]

So little understanding of God's true nature. God is both inside and outside time, this is how God remains the same yesterday, today and forever. Time is a concept only we perceive as passing, but to God it has all already happened and he chooses to interact with each of us in every single moment of our existence. But at the very moment when God created the universe, to him the end of the world had already happened. He knew in that moment every thought and deed and decision that every human in the full history of mankind would ever make.

Those who are "predestined" are those who God already knows will believe the truth of the Gospel and accept salvation. So yes he desires that none should perish, but in his omniscient, he knows those who will not admit they are sinners, ask for forgiveness or accept his free gift of salvation and eternal life. Just as he knew mankind would fall and he would need to make a way of reconciliation. Why then do we need to preach the Gospel to all people? Because this knowledge of who the predestined are belongs only to God and since we don't know who those people are that will accept, then we need to reach out to everyone and let God do the rest.

Jesus sacrifice was once and for all, yes he took the punishment for all sin from mankind from then until the end of the world. So because of that sacrifice, the forgiveness and eternal life is available for everyone, BUT, they must ask for it to receive it otherwise they remain in an unforgiven state, eternally separated from God. They must be willing to accept who Jesus is, his sacrifice and the reason why he had to do it. Once again, from God's perspective he has offered this gift to all mankind without exception, even terrorists, but not everyone is going to accept it. We may think that a serial murderer or a terrorist should face judgement for what they have done, that they shouldn't get to be forgiven or receive eternal life after what they have done, but that's because we don't truly understand God's grace and mercy. For all have sinned, we have missed the mark, and fall short of the Glory of God. Sin is missing the mark, anything that is unrighteous is sin and this idea that murder is worse than lying is a manmade concept. Either sin will separate you from God, either will hurt God because he said "Be Holy for I am Holy"

All of us, even Christians hurt God as his children every day when we neglect him, we forget to include him in our everyday lives or refuse to listen and obey or even willingly sin when we know we shouldn't. God grieves and is saddened by this and at the lengths that some of mankind goes to, to do hurt or commit evil, but we have to trust the sovereignty of God that he knows what is best and how it should be handled after all it's his universe, we just live in it, he has no obligation to justify himself to us.

That’s wonderful and it’s good to see you have a firm handle on what God is like according to what we can plainly see in the Bible.

I gather a lot what you said is taken from Ephesians, among other sources, so I would like to ask a question from Ephesians.

Would you comment a bit more on predestination regarding those who lose their salvation?

Ephesians 5:3-4
3But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

So what about those among the Ephesian church who could have been immoral, impure, or greedy losing their predestination to any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God?

 

[Magenta]

God does not plan things. God purposes things.

God has a purpose for all but without plans? Just goes about it all willy-nilly, does He?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You’re basically saying people are saved before they believe, but I don’t think that’s accurate. The Bible-wide call to believe would be pointless otherwise.

God draws all people to Himself:

John 12
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

God can draws all people to Himself, tries to unblind people, open their minds, soften their heart, etc and can make the “soil of someone’s heart” workable, but does not force anyone to believe anything. People can flat out reject God and they do. Spiritual regeneration does not come before faith then. If it did then it refutes its own position by saying the Holy Spirit indwells those without faith, i.e., non-believers.

John 7
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Titus 3
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

I am afraid that most of well intended children of God do not rightly divide the word of truth.

Strong's concordance, according to Greek interpretation, of the word "salvation" = a deliverance. There are a few scriptures that speak of an eternal deliverance, but there are many salvation scriptures that are referencing salvations (deliverances) that the born again children of God, receives as they sojourn here on earth.

This is why, if you apply all salvation (deliverance) scriptures to reference eternal deliverance, the scriptures will teach eternal deliverance rewarded for your good works.

The unregenerate person cannot discern the things of the Spirit, they are foolishness unto him
, and cannot believe spiritual things until he has been born spiritually, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit

The golden serpent on the pole was for Israel people to look upon and the snake bites would not kill them.

The "ALL MEN" that look to Jesus for healing are God's born again people..

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God has a purpose for all but without plans? Just goes about it all willy-nilly, does He?

Give me a scripture that says God plans.

 

[Magenta]

Give me a scripture that says God plans.

It is your assertion to prove. Give us a Scripture that says God does not plan.

God does not plan things.

Let's have it, then

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God has planned all things. God doesn't do his own things random. It seems that you don't know him well enough.

Can you give me a scripture that says God plans things?