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J
JesusistheChrist
Guest
Personally, I believe, based upon what I see in scripture, that somebody who believes in Christ ought to be water baptized as soon as possible after having first believed. I mean, obviously the thief on the cross couldn't get water baptized, but he was literally buried shortly after believing which is what baptism signifies. Anyhow, I'm really not into this "splitting of hairs" that some here engage in regularly in relation to water baptism. IOW, whenever I share the gospel with anybody, I tell them that they should get water baptized after they've believed. If something hinders them from doing the same, even though it is in their heart to do so, and they die before being baptized, then I believe that they would be saved in that their baptism occurred in their heart, but simply wasn't yet manifested outwardly. At the same time, however, my own daughter, age 12, goes to church every Sunday, youth group every Friday night, helps out teaching younger children in another group every Wednesday night, reads her Bible, has "quiet time" daily...and refuses to be water baptized. I've spoken to her about the same on a few different occasions and my own personal observation and/or belief in regard to her is this:
As outwardly "religious" as she presently is, she's never truly given her life to the Lord and her refusal to be water baptized is but one of many evidences of the same.
When I got saved?
I was ready to do a swan dive off of a building and into the river if need be. Having previously been a world class rebel, I was and still am more than willing to obey the One Whom I call "Lord" and said obedience included my own water baptism.
When Jesus went to Zaccheus' house, he had a change of heart. Jesus said
''Today salvation has come to this house.'' He had not been baptised in water.
I think that puts it in its true perspective
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
i never have and never will tell anyone they should not be baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.
but i always will maintain that just as it is not circumcision of the flesh, by humans hands, but circumcision of the heart, by the hand of God, it is not baptism of the flesh, in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, by human hands - it is baptism of the Spirit, by the hand of our Lord.
i'm not trying to 'do away' with anything except false teaching and false faith in our own works.
there is only one baptism that saves. the one who receives this will certainly be moved to perform the like figure of it and should never be prevented, but even if he were, who can separate us?
The false teaching would be though telling others they don't have to get immersed in water for baptism.
The only baptism man can administer and was commanded by the Lord to do was H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion.
The laying on of the hands was an invoking of the Holy Spirit to be administered by the Lord, and to do healing, and other such activities in the faith through the Holy Spirit. Man can not baptized with the Holy Spirit, as only the Lord does this.
The baptizing that Peter is speaking of in Acts 2:38, Acts 10:47-48, and 1 Peter 3:21 is H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism into Christ.
Thank you for sharing, Brother. And don't worry; in God's time all will be fulfilled with your daughter.
Thank you, Brother. I'm with you on this!
It is nice to have agreement between brothers. Actually, Jesus forgave many people their sins, without the requirement they firstly be baptised
there's 2 systems on earth. 2 kingdoms. hasatan's which includes most all the world and populations of the nations and multitudes and the rcc,
and yahshua's kingdom, which includes few.
when 'many people' / rather "a person" learns the truth later in life, and if they chose to receive life (if yahweh shows them mercy) they repent in tears and anguish for their wretched sinful life and they get immersed in yahshua's name.
if they don't learn the truth, they don't repent, they don't get saved out of the heresy of the rcc, and they don't get immersed in yahshua. they die in their sin are are resurrected in shame for destruction.
and yahshua's kingdom, which includes few.
when 'many people' / rather "a person" learns the truth later in life, and if they chose to receive life (if yahweh shows them mercy) they repent in tears and anguish for their wretched sinful life and they get immersed in yahshua's name.
if they don't learn the truth, they don't repent, they don't get saved out of the heresy of the rcc, and they don't get immersed in yahshua. they die in their sin are are resurrected in shame for destruction.
for sure!
but another false teaching would be telling others that man can administer salvation, wouldn't you agree?
in that case we would deny Christ, and make the cross out to be nothing.
that is what i think obedient H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism without recognizing it as only a symbol of the actual baptism that secures our redemption is.
not trying to get rid of what was given to the apostles to do. just trying to make sure right knowledge and understanding are not left behind
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so you agree that H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion itself doesn't remit sins?
good!
Obviously you are putting words in my mouth that I never said.
Acts 2:38 says baptism is for the remission of sins. Infants have no sins to be remitted so they are not candidates for baptism. For those that do have sins then they are candidates for baptism and must be baptized if they are to have their sins remitted.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Yes because the way to salvation did come into that house that day, it still does not make it a physical possession or else all of these would contradict;
Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Peter 1:4-5
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins was not part of the OT law that Zacchaeus lived under, therefore he is not an example of NT salvation. Those of who today live under Christ's NT law which requires it per Acts 2:38. Infants have no sins so it is not required of them.
Therefore in Zacheus' case, salvation came to him before he was baptised in water. And as I previously stated. Jesus forgave many people their sins without the requirement they firstly be baptised in water.
nuts, i thought the light of Truth had finally dawned on you =\
David said he was sinful at birth, even at conception. (Psalm 51:5)
why does it sound like you are calling him a liar again?
David did not say he was born a sinner, that is a perversion of language by the NIV.
If infants are born sinners then they are born lost and require baptism to have sins remitted or die in their sins as an infant and be lost. This is why Catholicism practices infant baptism based on the false idea of original sin.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
for sure!
but another false teaching would be telling others that man can administer salvation, wouldn't you agree?
in that case we would deny Christ, and make the cross out to be nothing.
that is what i think obedient H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism without recognizing it as only a symbol of the actual baptism that secures our redemption is.
not trying to get rid of what was given to the apostles to do. just trying to make sure right knowledge and understanding are not left behind
Yes but some put to much emphasis on the cross itself, and not what was done on the cross.
They make the cross into an idol by doing so, as it is not the cross itself that did anything. It was the Lords death on the cross that gave us a way to be reconciled to God by receiving remission of our sins. The Lord then tells us how we receive that remission, as it is through faith in Him to believe in Him and all that He taught and commanded.
Even all the Apostles including Paul upheld and administered baptism. Some will tell you he didn't because they misuse 1 Corinthians 1:17 to say water baptism was done away with, but Paul did baptize in Acts and even states who he did baptize. He is only saying in that scripture that was not his calling to do, as he was called to preach the gospel and others administered the baptism. Paul even says in both Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12 that we are buried with Christ through baptism (H[SUB]2[/SUB]O).
. . . kind of like preaching H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion saves, when it is actually the work of God that saves, and immersion in Him and by Him that sanctifies, hmm?