The Apostles taught Infant Baptism!

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DesiredHaven said:
We must have been saved during the same time (given our age difference) because I was in my earlier twenties then you. However, I never recall dates that well, not even the date of my own water baptism, I have the picture, not the date. Maybe its on the back of the picture? I never even checked. But you know me by now, I just dont recall dates very well for the most part. But it was after I got out of the Army. I went into the Army at 18 years old, so somewheres between 21-24 Im guessing. It doesnt matter to me, but yeah, I didnt reccognize God being with me (or in me) at any time, not so until that time, then I was keenly aware of His presence with me and in me. THAT was just not so before that time.
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I'm actually not too good with dates either. I normally try to date things by some important event in my life like the birth of one of my children, my wedding anniversary (which was last week) or, in the case of when I got saved, in relation to when I almost died. IOW, I almost died of a drug overdose shortly before I got saved, so that event will always be pretty fresh in my mind.
 
JesusistheChrist said:
I'm actually not too good with dates either. I normally try to date things by some important event in my life like the birth of one of my children, my wedding anniversary (which was last week) or, in the case of when I got saved, in relation to when I almost died. IOW, I almost died of a drug overdose shortly before I got saved, so that event will always be pretty fresh in my mind.
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Yes I hear you. Im somewhat embarrassed at what dates I forget (or at least have to look up) and even make a sticky to myself, Im just horrible that wayembarrassed-smiley10.gif
 
DesiredHaven said:
Yes I hear you. Im somewhat embarrassed at what dates I forget (or at least have to look up) and even make a sticky to myself, Im just horrible that wayView attachment 98425
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In relation to my own baptism, I got saved in late October and then baptized in early December...I remember that much. I would have gotten baptized sooner, but the church that I was attending then required you to take a three or four week course on water baptism before they baptized you. Hey, I didn't know anything then (Hey, who said "then?"?...lol), so I waited.
 
JesusistheChrist said:
In relation to my own baptism, I got saved in late October and then baptized in early December...I remember that much. I would have gotten baptized sooner, but the church that I was attending then required you to take a three or four week course on water baptism before they baptized you. Hey, I didn't know anything then (Hey, who said "then?"?...lol), so I waited.
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I would have just pushed you in had I known LOL

water-push.gif
 
blue_ladybug said:
geesh.. and people here say I'M violent?!! lol.. at least I'm in good company with DesiredHaven.. :p
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I always wanted to do that, I would be a great baptizer LOL

(no really I always wanted to do that "to him") LOL
 
blue_ladybug said:
geesh.. and people here say I'M violent?!! lol.. at least I'm in good company with DesiredHaven.. :p
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Ah, she's not too bad.

A lot of people whom I know would have tied an anchor around my neck before pushing me...lol.
 
My definition of infant baptism can be found in 1 Corinthians 3. It has taken almost 60 years to grow up.
 
posthuman said:
i keep saying this because when i read 1 Peter, i read the entire book, and when i specifically come to chapter 3 v. 21, i read the entire verse, not just 4 words out of it.

it literally says the resurrection of Christ saves me, not 'the washing of filth from the flesh.'
it literally says it is the answer of a good conscious [INWARD] toward God that is effective, not giving your flesh a bath [OUTWARD].
it literally says this H[SUB]2[/SUB]O immersion that we willingly and obediently undergo is a 'figure' - just as the ark is a figure - a shadow. Christ is the substance.

i know that the only part you see is "baptism now saves you" -- but do you know that that is what "cherry picking" means? only reading 4 words out of a whole book? seeing the whole of the gospel is not "cherry picking." reading an entire sentence instead of 4 words is not "cherry picking."
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You have your figures wrong...

The like figure is not the Ark, it is the water, it says like how water washed away the sins of the world in the days of Noah saving 8, "in like figure" (like your face is your face in a mirror but the opposite, the water washes the opposite, not the world, but each of us) and Peter making sure you would understand (this must be the only place he may have been wrong because you cannot or refuse to understand) said so you would not get this confused with a "bath", that it was a "spiritual cleansing" not washing away the filth of the flesh, but a spiritual cleansing of the sins of "the man" (not the world "the man")

Antitype is like when a coin is stamped, the stamp image is the exact opposite of the coin after it is stamped...

If Peter is saying like the Ark that saved 8, we have a antitype, then he would be talking about the bottom of the Ark...
 
SeaBass said:
12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

It says they have turned aside, NOT born aside. They have become useless, NOT born useless. How one turns or what one becomes shows personal responsibility not how one was unconditionally born.
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Wrong. But what else should we expect?

There is only one Greek word in the verse for the English phrase "turned aside." It is ekklino meaning "deviate from the right way and course." You ignore v. 9 which clearly states Jews and Greeks are all under sin. The the readers of the epistle, that meant everyone in the world, for there were only "Jews" -- Israel -- and Greeks, meaning everyone else. So take your false doctrines and bad biblical interpretation and peddle to some one more gullible than the rest of us around here.
 
JesusistheChrist said:
Did you read my response?

Anyhow, my point is that baptism ought not have anything at all to do with "the right group of believers to be baptized with"...unless you're being "baptized" into that group/denomination instead of Christ...which I wouldn't recommend.
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Well, first, not counting my infant baptism (Because it doesn't mean anything), I never been baptized into a denomination. When I was baptized as a believer, I did it for God and not for men or a church.

Second, I disagree with the fact that you need to find the right group of believers who are willing to baptize you. For you cannot baptize yourself. You need other Christians to baptize you. Letting just any group of believers baptize you without knowing who they are and what they represent for real is not good. In other words, some people do not always find the right body of believers who are willing to baptize them.
 
Viligant_Warrior said:
Wrong. But what else should we expect?

There is only one Greek word in the verse for the English phrase "turned aside." It is ekklino meaning "deviate from the right way and course." You ignore v. 9 which clearly states Jews and Greeks are all under sin. The the readers of the epistle, that meant everyone in the world, for there were only "Jews" -- Israel -- and Greeks, meaning everyone else. So take your false doctrines and bad biblical interpretation and peddle to some one more gullible than the rest of us around here. [/FONT][/SIZE]
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For those trying to follow your POV, your citation was Romans 10, it should have been Romans 3, using your choice of translation:

Romans 3:9 (NASB)
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

Romans 3:12 (NASB)
All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one."

That sits on top of Wescott and Hort's corrupted Greek :

Romans 3:12 (Wescott-Hort)
παντες εξεκλιναν αμα ηχρεωθησαν ουκ εστιν ποιων χρηστοτητα ουκ εστιν εως ενος

εξεκλιναν means to avoid, verse 9 doesn't mean they were born under sin, if so verse 12 would not charge them for not (or not being able to) avoid sin for if they could we would not need a savior... if they could not avoid it because of being born with sin, it is pointless for Paul to use the word εξεκλιναν
 
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Jabberjaw said:
You have your figures wrong...

The like figure is not the Ark, it is the water, it says like how water washed away the sins of the world in the days of Noah saving 8, "in like figure" (like your face is your face in a mirror but the opposite, the water washes the opposite, not the world, but each of us) and Peter making sure you would understand (this must be the only place he may have been wrong because you cannot or refuse to understand) said so you would not get this confused with a "bath", that it was a "spiritual cleansing" not washing away the filth of the flesh, but a spiritual cleansing of the sins of "the man" (not the world "the man")

Antitype is like when a coin is stamped, the stamp image is the exact opposite of the coin after it is stamped...

If Peter is saying like the Ark that saved 8, we have a antitype, then he would be talking about the bottom of the Ark...
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  • the waters of the flood brought death to the earth.
  • immersion into Christ's death and burial condemns & puts to death our sinful nature.
  • by the ark 8 humans and many animals were given salvation from death, being preserved in life.
  • by the resurrection of Christ we pass from death into life.

now mr. Jaw, which are you more thankful for?
your death, or your life?

it is a complete "figure" :)

and it is Christ's blood, not H[SUB]2[/SUB]O, which atones. Christ's resurrection, not a dry towel, by which we have life.
which then shall we give glory? on which do we depend? which is a "figure" and which is substance ?
the blood of Jesus & the hand of God? or some tap water and any human willing to say "the right words" over us while we rinse our hair?
 
Utah said:
Nice slap in the face to God with that comment.
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How did I slap God in the face with stating the truth?

I didnt believe in Jesus Christ when I was an infant, my parents got me wet, not God, and it wasnt His decision it was someone elses (for me) how is God responsible for that that I am perceived as slapping God?

Are you sure it wasnt that I disagreed with you and might have felt I slapped you in the face but believe I slapped God rather?
 
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