The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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brightfame52 said:
Its obvious you dont believe in the saving effectiveness of Christs death
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:rolleyes: ... that I do not hold to your erroneous dogma does not mean I do not believe in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.




brightfame52 said:
His death is limited to them He died for
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John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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The work of Christ is Salvation !

Lk 2:30

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

Little be it known, this statement is meant of the Death/Work of Christ, which means that through His Work is accomplished full Salvation for all Gods People; and no its not just a opportunity for Salvation, for that makes Christ's Salvation fall short of God's Glory, makes it only a Whimsical possibility, a wish, but its a Salvation that actually saves sinners from their sins 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

This means to actualize their Salvation from sin, anything short of that would be failure. The word Save is the greek word sózó:

I save, heal, preserve, rescue.

He rescues and preserves sinners from the penalty and power of sin ! He heals them ! How does He do that ? By His Stripes 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

That word healed iaomai

I heal, generally of the physical, sometimes of spiritual, disease.

to make whole i. e. to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation:

Bring about means cause to occur, effect, produce, cause to exist, and this confirms that He brings about the actualization of their Salvation and not a possibility !

Lk 1:68-77

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, 40
 
reneweddaybyday said:
From George Williams Believer's Bible Commentary

God having tested both the Hebrew and the Gentile nations, and both having broken down under the test, He shut them up in unbelief so that, being manifestly without merit, and having by demonstration forfeited all claims and all rights to divine favor, He might, in the unsearchable riches of His grace, have mercy upon them all. ​
(Believer's Bible Commentary. Nashville: Thomas Nelson)​

The point of the verse is God's mercy upon all mankind and the magnitude of God's wisdom is revealed in the verse following verse 32:

Romans 11:32-33 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!





:rolleyes: ... conflating what is written in Romans 11 with what is written in Romans 9 is not proper interpretation of Scripture.

Here is the conclusion of what is written in Romans 9:

Romans 9:30-33

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

vs 30 – gentiles have attained to righteousness which is of faith.

vs 31-32 – Israel has not attained to righteousness because they sought it not by faith and, therefore, stumbled at the Stumblingstone.

vs 33 – whosoever believeth on the Stumblingstone shall not be ashamed (disappointed).


Here is the conclusion of what is written in Romans 11:

Romans 11:

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

vs 32 – reveals God's mercy upon all mankind.

vs 33 – the wisdom and knowledge of God are beyond the scope of the comprehension of mankind.

vs 34-35 – rhetorical statements as no one can know the mind of the Lord ... we can only know what He reveals to us concerning His thoughts. No one advised God ... no one can out-give God for God recompences over and above anything we give.

vs 36 – all things are of Him, and through Him, and to Him and He alone is worthy of all glory for ever.





From Vine's Expository Dictionary:

... He "gave Himself a ransom for all," indicating that the "ransom" was provisionally universal, while being of a vicarious character. Thus the three passages consistently show that while the provision was universal, for Christ died for all men, yet it is actual for those only who accept God's conditions, and who are described in the Gospel statements as "the many."​
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It appears you are in opposition to the truth that Christs death redeems them He died for from out of unbelief, by which by nature they are imprisoned.
 
Context in order not be conned by prooftext.

KJV(i) 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Exactly, "Jesus came to save sinners", "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Rom 3:23
Christ died for ALL, but only those "...hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" are the "whosoever believeth on him" John 3:16-18 will have everlasting life or be saved.
 
Context 1 Peter 2

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed

Jesus, the elect makes spiritual healing and never be damned on the basis of one's believing on him.
 
fredoheaven said:
Context in order not be conned by prooftext.

KJV(i) 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Exactly, "Jesus came to save sinners", "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Rom 3:23
Christ died for ALL, but only those "...hereafter believe on him to life everlasting" are the "whosoever believeth on him" John 3:16-18 will have everlasting life or be saved.
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Post 1916 Do you understand:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...really-accomplish.199050/page-96#post-5183839
 
brightfame52 said:
Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.
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The atonement removes every person's accountability for all transgressions of the Law, so that no sin any longer separates us from the holy God. Because of the atonement offered by Christ, God sees in us only any good we have done through faith in His existing and being a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
From God's perspective no one's sins are any longer a barrier to them coming boldly to Him and having an intimate relationship with Him through faith. But only those who put their trust in God and in Jesus Christ, whom God sent into the world, are able to experience and enjoy all the benefits that are available in Christ because of the full atonement already made once for all for their sins. Exclusion from those benefits is not due to God's withholding of them from anyone, but is due to a person not coming to God through Jesus to receive them by faith.
 
PaulThomson said:
The atonement removes every person's accountability for all transgressions of the Law, so that no sin any longer separates us from the holy God. Because of the atonement offered by Christ, God sees in us only any good we have done through faith in His existing and being a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
From God's perspective no one's sins are any longer a barrier to them coming boldly to Him and having an intimate relationship with Him through faith. But only those who put their trust in God and in Jesus Christ, whom God sent into the world, are able to experience and enjoy all the benefits that are available in Christ because of the full atonement already made once for all for their sins. Exclusion from those benefits is not due to God's withholding of them from anyone, but is due to a person not coming to God through Jesus to receive them by faith.
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This is false teaching friend.
 
brightfame52 said:
Post 1916 Do you understand:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...really-accomplish.199050/page-96#post-5183839
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Context plays a vital role
Ransom for many- the gospel writer Matthew and Mark have provided insights. Obviously, not all is in reference simply because the chief priests, scribes condemned him to death. Matthew 20:18. The context well address that those who rejected Christ at the very moment may not find mercy. The two blind men got mercy when they ask for it. Matthew 20:30-34. What that means, the Lord is merciful to those who ask for it and have no mercy to tjose who reject it.
 
1 Timothy 2:6 KJV — Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Paul is speakin the truth and not lied. The ransom is for ÀLl.. Are you willing to disprove Paul?
 
I said:
The atonement removes every person's accountability for all transgressions of the Law, so that no sin any longer separates us from the holy God. Because of the atonement offered by Christ, God sees in us only any good we have done through faith in His existing and being a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
From God's perspective no one's sins are any longer a barrier to them coming boldly to Him and having an intimate relationship with Him through faith. But only those who put their trust in God and in Jesus Christ, whom God sent into the world, are able to experience and enjoy all the benefits that are available in Christ because of the full atonement already made once for all for their sins. Exclusion from those benefits is not due to God's withholding of them from anyone, but is due to a person not coming to God through Jesus to receive them by faith.

brightfame52 said:
This is false teaching friend.
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Do you have scripture to support your blanket dismissal?

1 John 2:2And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for [the sins of ] the world.

Rom. 3:25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

Heb. 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ at one time (ephapax).
 
fredoheaven said:
Context plays a vital role
Ransom for many- the gospel writer Matthew and Mark have provided insights. Obviously, not all is in reference simply because the chief priests, scribes condemned him to death. Matthew 20:18. The context well address that those who rejected Christ at the very moment may not find mercy. The two blind men got mercy when they ask for it. Matthew 20:30-34. What that means, the Lord is merciful to those who ask for it and have no mercy to tjose who reject it.
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Did you read and understand it ? Please show me you did, Thanks
 
PaulThomson said:
I said:
The atonement removes every person's accountability for all transgressions of the Law, so that no sin any longer separates us from the holy God. Because of the atonement offered by Christ, God sees in us only any good we have done through faith in His existing and being a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
From God's perspective no one's sins are any longer a barrier to them coming boldly to Him and having an intimate relationship with Him through faith. But only those who put their trust in God and in Jesus Christ, whom God sent into the world, are able to experience and enjoy all the benefits that are available in Christ because of the full atonement already made once for all for their sins. Exclusion from those benefits is not due to God's withholding of them from anyone, but is due to a person not coming to God through Jesus to receive them by faith.



Do you have scripture to support your blanket dismissal?

1 John 2:2And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for [the sins of ] the world.

Rom. 3:25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

Heb. 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ at one time (ephapax).
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False teaching, I have given scriptural reasons why, I started the thread with scriptural reasons.
 
PaulThomson said:
I said:
The atonement removes every person's accountability for all transgressions of the Law, so that no sin any longer separates us from the holy God. Because of the atonement offered by Christ, God sees in us only any good we have done through faith in His existing and being a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
From God's perspective no one's sins are any longer a barrier to them coming boldly to Him and having an intimate relationship with Him through faith. But only those who put their trust in God and in Jesus Christ, whom God sent into the world, are able to experience and enjoy all the benefits that are available in Christ because of the full atonement already made once for all for their sins. Exclusion from those benefits is not due to God's withholding of them from anyone, but is due to a person not coming to God through Jesus to receive them by faith.



Do you have scripture to support your blanket dismissal?

1 John 2:2And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for [the sins of ] the world.

Rom. 3:25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

Heb. 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ at one time (ephapax).
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Calvinists add to scripture to fit their man-made theology. The world is "the world of the elect." All means, "all the elect." Whosoever means, "whosoever of the elect." Everyone means, "everyone of the elect."
 
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reneweddaybyday said:
Do you know that in addition to the church, the Lord Jesus Christ died for others? The church began on Day of Pentecost and continues to this day. However, what about those who lived and died prior to Day of Pentecost? The Lord Jesus Christ died for them as well ...
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The church did not begin at Pentecost. The church is the body of believers in the Lordship nd resurrection of Jesus. The church seems to have begun on resurrection Sunday morning when the women believed that Jesus was risen and Lord after seeing Him, John 20:16.-18, Mt. 28:9-10, Mark 16:9
.And the ten apostles believed and received the Holy Spirit on resurrection Sunday evening, John 20:-19-23
At Pentecost the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment John 16:8, and to empower and embolden the church Acts 1:8, Acts 2
 
brightfame52 said:
False teaching, I have given scriptural reasons why, I started the thread with scriptural reasons.
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You have to do better than that. You asked a question in the thread title inviting responses. You need to attach scriptures to posters answers to show that their answers are scripturally incorrect. It's not good enough to simply claim your answers are already somewhere in the 95 pages of the thread.
 
PaulThomson said:
You have to do better than that. You asked a question in the thread title inviting responses. You need to attach scriptures to posters answers to show that their answers are scripturally incorrect. It's not good enough to simply claim your answers are already somewhere in the 95 pages of the thread.
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I have given my scriptures all through the thread, and you have not provided any for your non biblical view
 
brightfame52 said:
Did you read and understand it ? Please show me you did, Thanks
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Yes, God is willing to give mercy to all yet only effected to those who cry for it. The blind crave for mercy and they obtained, likewise spiritually blind i.e. "ALL" will be given mercy as long as they ask for it. Your "Elect" is your addition to suit to your presentation and counted as nothing. ALL means ALL men to whom Christ died.
 
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