The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[reneweddaybyday]

Do you understand that accomplishment ? What did the death of Christ purpose to do according to Eph 5:25-26 ?

Yes, I understand Ephesians 5:25-26 as it pertains to the church.

However, my point was that you stated in Post #15:

"Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ, it ensured the Spiritual cleansing and sanctification of all those He died for. The church."​

​

(bold/underline mine)​

The church is not comprised of "all those He died for". There are others who came before Day of Pentecost when the church was established. Christ died for many more than you allow.


Ephesians 5:

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word


In Post #5, @oyster67 stated:

"Eternal salvation for all those who believe, receive, and abide in the vine."​

Do you know what it is to abide in the Vine? Here is what Jesus said:


John 15:

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Notice that Ephesians 5:26 indicates we are sanctified (set apart) and cleansed (made pure) by the washing of water by the Word.

And in John 15:3 Jesus told His disciples that they were clean through the Word He had spoken to them. Jesus further encouraged His disciples to abide in Him. This abiding in Jesus is crucial in the life of the believer.

It is God's Word which cleanses us and we must be careful that we stick to God's Word. It is in God's Word that we learn about the Lord Jesus Christ ... that He is the living Word and the born again one is to live in Him:

Ephesians 5:

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

[DeanM]

Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The Atonement of Christ has reconciled the elect world to God. It secured and ensured for it [ the elect world] every spiritual blessing needed to live unto God and for His Glory through Jesus christ.

Even before the elect are born into this world as sinners, they have already [by the blood of Christ] been reconciled to God, it will now be a matter of time for it to be manifested.

The atonement accomplished the complete salvation for all whom it was offered for, that is the death of christ. It provides them Faith, repentance, sanctification, redemption, and every needful spiritual blessing to convert them to God, and remain secured forever.

So according to you Christ didnt have to become flesh, suffer and die since the "elect" were good to go since before the foundations of the earth. Wonder what He thinks of that?

 

[Nehemiah6]

You continue to peddle a false dogma which does not bring the sinner to the Lord Jesus Christ in Whom the sinner is reconciled to God.

Correct. This is another tiresome attempt to promote Five Point Calvinism.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, I understand Ephesians 5:25-26 as it pertains to the church.

However, my point was that you stated in Post #15:

"Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ, it ensured the Spiritual cleansing and sanctification of all those He died for. The church."​

​

(bold/underline mine)​

The church is not comprised of "all those He died for". There are others who came before Day of Pentecost when the church was established. Christ died for many more than you allow.


Ephesians 5:

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word


In Post #5, @oyster67 stated:

"Eternal salvation for all those who believe, receive, and abide in the vine."​

Do you know what it is to abide in the Vine? Here is what Jesus said:


John 15:

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Notice that Ephesians 5:26 indicates we are sanctified (set apart) and cleansed (made pure) by the washing of water by the Word.

And in John 15:3 Jesus told His disciples that they were clean through the Word He had spoken to them. Jesus further encouraged His disciples to abide in Him. This abiding in Jesus is crucial in the life of the believer.

It is God's Word which cleanses us and we must be careful that we stick to God's Word. It is in God's Word that we learn about the Lord Jesus Christ ... that He is the living Word and the born again one is to live in Him:

Ephesians 5:

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Thats who He gave His Life for, specifically the Church. Who in Eph 5:25 did Paul say Christ specifically Christ loved and died for, and what are the results of that Love and death for them ?

 

[brightfame52]

So according to you Christ didnt have to become flesh, suffer and die since the "elect" were good to go since before the foundations of the earth. Wonder what He thinks of that?

This is false misrepresentation !

 

[Absolutely]

There seems to be an underlying and hidden agenda in this back an forth.

Could the calvinists and universalists please raise their hands and identify themselves please?

I sense motive over truth.

 

[Journeyman]

Christs sacrifice shows us how God doesn't immediately destroy people who sin against him and I think we can all agree that our Savior Jesus was greatly sinned against.

Realizing and responding to the kind of love he showed toward people who were hurting him brings atonement, oneness with him.

 

[Blik]

Do you know that in addition to the church, the Lord Jesus Christ died for others? The church began on Day of Pentecost and continues to this day. However, what about those who lived and died prior to Day of Pentecost? The Lord Jesus Christ died for them as well ...

It was about 4,000 years that man lived on earth before Christ. Atonement was what the Lord offered all those millions of people, we need to understand what atonement meant.

I made a study of the sacrificial system. That study goes into great detail about the various sins that were forgiven through that sysytem, a system that Christ fulfilled. That study gave me a better understanding of what Christ has done for us.

 

[phil36]

Rom 5:11
The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

The Atonement accomplished what it was intended to accomplish (Acts 4:23-30)

1. Justice satisfied - Rom 3:26; 1 John 1:19.
2. The death of death in the death of sin - Rom 6:9-12.
3. Reconciliation between man and God - John 3:16-18,14:6; Rom 5:10.

That's just three obvious points, the list could go on.

The atonement enables sinners reconciliation, forgiveness of sins,life and access to God the father (John 14:6; Eph 2:18; Heb 6:19-20) through the inward working of the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39) through faith in Jesus (Romans 3:22-23; 1 John 5:1).



-- but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8).


Regarding election, is redemption accomplished applied only to the elect? I can't see to whom who else it could be applied. However, if you mean what is the scope of the atonement, is it universal or only for those chosen by God? Well that's a debate that has been going on for a long time between christian's and probably won't be answered until the end of the age.

Anyhow just a few thoughts.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Thats who He gave His Life for, specifically the Church.

Not true, brightfame52. When you claim that the Lord Jesus Christ came and gave "His Life for, specifically the Church" as you did in Post #24, or that the "all those He died for" is comprised only of "The church." as you did in Post #15, you leave out all those who came before Day of Pentecost.

I am in agreement that the Lord Jesus Christ gave Himself ...

I am in agreement that the Lord Jesus Christ sanctifies (sets apart) ...

I am in agreement that the Lord Jesus Christ cleanses (purifies) with the washing of water by the Word ...

I am not in agreement that the the church comprises "all those He died for". Did the Lord Jesus Christ not die for Job? Job is not a part of the church. I know I will live in new heaven/new earth with Job:

Job 19:

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It was about 4,000 years that man lived on earth before Christ. Atonement was what the Lord offered all those millions of people, we need to understand what atonement meant.

I made a study of the sacrificial system. That study goes into great detail about the various sins that were forgiven through that sysytem, a system that Christ fulfilled. That study gave me a better understanding of what Christ has done for us.

Yes ... we can learn much from studying what we know now was a shadow of good things to come.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I sense motive over truth.

My motive is it is written ... what was good enough for the Lord Jesus Christ when He walked the earth is good enough for me.

Ephesians 6:

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel

 

[brightfame52]

The Atonement accomplished what it was intended to accomplish (Acts 4:23-30)

1. Justice satisfied - Rom 3:26; 1 John 1:19.
2. The death of death in the death of sin - Rom 6:9-12.
3. Reconciliation between man and God - John 3:16-18,14:6; Rom 5:10.

That's just three obvious points, the list could go on.

The atonement enables sinners reconciliation, forgiveness of sins,life and access to God the father (John 14:6; Eph 2:18; Heb 6:19-20) through the inward working of the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39) through faith in Jesus (Romans 3:22-23; 1 John 5:1).



-- but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8).


Regarding election, is redemption accomplished applied only to the elect? I can't see to whom who else it could be applied. However, if you mean what is the scope of the atonement, is it universal or only for those chosen by God? Well that's a debate that has been going on for a long time between christian's and probably won't be answered until the end of the age.

Anyhow just a few thoughts.

You sound unsure !

 

[brightfame52]

Not true, brightfame52. When you claim that the Lord Jesus Christ came and gave "His Life for, specifically the Church" as you did in Post #24, or that the "all those He died for" is comprised only of "The church." as you did in Post #15, you leave out all those who came before Day of Pentecost.

I am in agreement that the Lord Jesus Christ gave Himself ...

I am in agreement that the Lord Jesus Christ sanctifies (sets apart) ...

I am in agreement that the Lord Jesus Christ cleanses (purifies) with the washing of water by the Word ...

I am not in agreement that the the church comprises "all those He died for". Did the Lord Jesus Christ not die for Job? Job is not a part of the church. I know I will live in new heaven/new earth with Job:

Job 19:

25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Yes its true !

 

[phil36]

You sound unsure !

Hi Brightframe52, Unsure on what?

 

[Blik]

Yes its true !

What the truth is: The Lord gave Christ to us when Adam and Eve sinned and we became dead in our sins. The sacrificial system is a shadow of Christ that worked for atonement of sins so saints were preserved until Christ completed, fulfilled, this promise. That is atonement, that is sufficient, that is the whole truth. That is scripture.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes its true !

do you agree the Lord Jesus Christ gave His life for Job?

Job lived long before Day of Pentecost, the day the church of the body of the Lord Jesus Christ was established ... the church of which the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head:

Ephesians 4:

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

...

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ


Job lived long before the Lord Jesus Christ ascended up on high ...

and please note the warning in Eph 4:14 that we need to grow up so that we are not tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive ... just sayin'

 

[Blik]

do you agree the Lord Jesus Christ gave His life for Job?

Job lived long before Day of Pentecost, the day the church of the body of the Lord Jesus Christ was established ... the church of which the Lord Jesus Christ is the Head:

Ephesians 4:

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

...

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ


Job lived long before the Lord Jesus Christ ascended up on high ...

and please note the warning in Eph 4:14 that we need to grow up so that we are not tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive ... just sayin'

If Christ gave His life for Job (and Christ did that) then Job's life was preserved through the sacrificial system, a shadow of Christ. In Matthew we are told that worked to preserve the life of the saints. When the curtain of the temple split, when Christ became alive in the spirit and dead in the flesh, we are told they walked the streets of Jerusalem.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If Christ gave His life for Job (and Christ did that) then Job's life was preserved through the sacrificial system, a shadow of Christ.

yes ... Job will see His Redeemer, just as he stated in Job 19:25-27

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.


Even though Job had the deep abiding faith we see in Scripture, he still was not a member of the church as we now know it (after Day of Pentecost). I love Job. I'm currently involved in a study of the Book of Job. such a wonderful believer. Job is a man I look forward to meeting in eternity!!!

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

The doctrine of election is something that a lot of people can't contend with. It's a false peace of mind many people have to say they can just choose to be saved or that Jesus gift of salvation is "contingent" upon their acceptance. I grew up with this doctrine in a Presbyterian church. When I began to study the scriptures, I learned quick that doctrine was false. All these admonitions to do this, do that, obey, walk in commandments are all a manifestation of the spiritual salvation process.

Free will is not a substitute for abiding in the root. No one takes on this journey of themselves. If God doesn't keep their steps in the way, he is not their father and they are not his sons.