The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[reneweddaybyday]

You are ignoring a vital aspect of the accomplishment of Christs atoning death. that it begats life, new life for them He atoned for.

Read the verses again, brightfame52

1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures


The gospel is the gospel. According to Romans 1:16, the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only those who receive the gospel (1 Cor 15:1) ... only those who believe the gospel (Rom 1:16) are born again.

Your dogma conflicts with Scripture because you keep claiming "those for whom Christ died" (or words to that effect) receive eternal life. And that is not true according to Scripture. Christ died for all mankind. However, only those who believe the gospel (Rom 1:16) ... only those who receive the gospel (1 Cor 15:1) are born again.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!! Read your Bible through the lens of Scripture ... not the lens of limited atonement / replacement theology!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Thats another aspect of Christs death you ignore, it makes them He died for righteous, by imputation

Again, brightfame52, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind.

Righteousness is imputed to those who believe:

Romans 4:

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... your dogma conflicts with Romans 4:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

Christ took away the sins of those He died for, so how can God charge them for them again ? Thats totally disregards the Justice of Christs death.

 

[brightfame52]

Read the verses again, brightfame52

1 Corinthians 15:

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures


The gospel is the gospel. According to Romans 1:16, the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only those who receive the gospel (1 Cor 15:1) ... only those who believe the gospel (Rom 1:16) are born again.

Your dogma conflicts with Scripture because you keep claiming "those for whom Christ died" (or words to that effect) receive eternal life. And that is not true according to Scripture. Christ died for all mankind. However, only those who believe the gospel (Rom 1:16) ... only those who receive the gospel (1 Cor 15:1) are born again.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!! Read your Bible through the lens of Scripture ... not the lens of limited atonement / replacement theology!!!

You still ignoring or denying a blessed truth of life out of Christs death.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, brightfame52, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind.

Righteousness is imputed to those who believe:

Romans 4:

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

You still ignore the blessed truth that Christs death renders one righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

Secured Peace with God !

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

This scripture by moving a comma will read:

Therefore being justified, by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

In other words the Peace we have with God by Christ's Death is revealed to Faith !

Jesus made Peace with God for those He died for, this Peace we have nothing to do with in having it, for it was secured for us by Christ's Death / Blood Col 1:20

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

This Peace with God was made for those Christ died for through His Blood, and this while we ourselves were being enemies Rom 5:10. This legal Peace of Col 1:20 is the same as the legal reconciliation of Rom 5:10, for Reconciliation was the result of peace being accomplished by the Cross.

This Peace and Reconciliation by the Blood of Christ is not contingent on any act or behavior of men, but is solely an accomplished and established fact, that should be preached as such, hence Paul calls it the Gospel or Good News of Peace Eph 6:15

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

For it rightly cannot be a Gospel of Peace, if its only a possibility of peace with God.

He Preached Peace unto you Eph 2:17

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.


Its not that peace is made available or has been offered you, those are words of false preachers and witnesses, however to all for whom Peace with God through Jesus Christ [His Blood] was accomplished for, God sees to it that Peace is preached unto them Rom 10:15

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Now this Peace / Reconciliation is one of the many accomplishments of the Cross Work of Jesus Christ for His Church, God's Elect World !

 

[brightfame52]

Shall be made Alive !

1 Cor 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All for whom Christ died, was buried and rose again the third day in behalf of Shall be made Alive, That is receive resurrection life as Per 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

They shall be made alive by the New Birth and or quickening 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Thats why Jesus spake thusly Jn 12:24,32

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit or Life !

Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

They come to Him because they have been given life.

Jesus said on another occasion this Jn 6:53

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.204

Eating His flesh and drinking His Blood are activities of coming to Him, but if one doesn't come is evidence of no life in them, the flip said is if they do come its an evidence of Life in them ! That they have been made Alive by Christ !


32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth[His Death], will draw[by giving life] all men unto me.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

This scripture by moving a comma will read:

Therefore being justified, by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Manipulating God's Word in order to support your dogma is error which results in calamity.

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

You are to bring your thoughts and your beliefs into alignment with Scripture ... and wherever you are in error, let the error go and hold to the Truth of God's Word.


Romans 5:1 clearly indicates we are justified by faith and because we are justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Additionally Romans 5:1 aligns with Romans 3:28 and Galatians 3:24 ...

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[brightfame52]

Manipulating God's Word in order to support your dogma is error which results in calamity.

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

You are to bring your thoughts and your beliefs into alignment with Scripture ... and wherever you are in error, let the error go and hold to the Truth of God's Word.


Romans 5:1 clearly indicates we are justified by faith and because we are justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Additionally Romans 5:1 aligns with Romans 3:28 and Galatians 3:24 ...

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

What secured peace with God ?

 

[brightfame52]

Prevents them from perishing !

All those Christ died for, in the place of or in behalf of, and for their benefit, His Death kept them from perishing for their own sins ! This is clearly seen in what the High Priest uttered here by the inspiration of God Jn 11:50-51

Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

Its clearly indicated in Vs 50 that the outcome and purpose of the one man dying for that nation prevents the one's of that nation from perishing !

The word perish in Vs 50 is the greek word apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly

Its the same word used in Jn 3:16

should not perish, but have214

Also the word expedient in Vs 50 is the greek word sumphero: I collect, am profitable to

I bring together, collect; I am profitable to.

properly, combine in a way that brings a profit (gain), especially by a "concurrence of circumstances" that results in benefit or advancement (M. Vincent).

This means that Christ's Death would bring together, collect all into one the Children of God or the Sheep of God as is stated in Vs 52

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

That was the benefit of His Death , the profit of His Death, it was conducive in preventing all the Children of God or Sheep of God from Perishing in their sins !

If this passage is understood spiritually it shows that Christ's Death in and of itself saves from perishing those He died in behalf of !

 

[brightfame52]

That we may bear fruit unto God !


Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ in the Purpose of God, is that it will cause all for whom He died and was raised from the dead for, to bring forth fruit unto God. That fruit being both faith and repentance, repentance toward God and Faith in Jesus Christ Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Both of these are but fruits of Christ's Death and Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3 !

Remember when Jesus said this Jn 12:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Well that is the fruit unto God Paul means here in Rom 7:4, which fruit consisteth of many men and women for whom Christ died, manifest both Faith and Repentance.


John the Baptist said to the Pharisee, questioning them about why they came to His Baptism of Repentance, but first they must bring forth fruit unto Repentance Matt 3:7-8

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducee's come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

This fruit would manifest itself in confession of sin Matt 3:6

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

However the Pharisees and Sadducee's that John directed his words to did not consider themselves sinners as other men much like the Pharisee here Lk 18:11-12

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

You see the Pharisee did not consider those things he did works of darkness or sinful deeds of the flesh, but in reality thats what they were Jn 3:19

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Their religious deeds were nothing but dead works that needed to be repented of Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? See also Isa 64:6.

Now this is how Christ Glorifies His Father, by those He died for bringing forth fruit Jn 15:8

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

And this is the end and accomplishment of the Death of Christ or the Body of Christ Rom 7:4

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

All those Christ died for, in the place of or in behalf of, and for their benefit, His Death kept them from perishing for their own sins !

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

This is clearly seen in what the High Priest uttered here by the inspiration of God Jn 11:50-51

Caiaphas did not utter "by the inspiration of God". However, God uses the actions of those in opposition to Him to bring about His purpose.

From Barnes Notes on the Bible:

He uttered words which proved to be prophetic; or he expressed at that time a sentiment which turned out to be true. It does not mean that he was inspired, or that he deserved to be ranked among the true prophets; but his words were such that they accurately expressed a future event.​

Rather than take a verse and manipulate it to fit your dogma, read the whole context, brighfame52:

Jesus had just raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:1 - 44) and many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on Him (vs 45). However, some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done (vs 46).

Then we see in John 11:47-48 then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

The council had gathered because they were more concerned about worldly affairs. Rather than believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah, they held a council and gave a commandment, that, if any man knew where he were, he should shew it, that they might take him (vs 57).


Caiaphas was not inspired by God. Caiaphas was, however, used to bring about the purpose of God.

Here is what occurred when Jesus was brought before Caiaphas:

Matthew 26:

57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

...

59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands


Here's another interesting verse which brings to light those like Caiaphas and his ilk:

1 Corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Another accomplishment of the Death of Christ in the Purpose of God, is that it will cause all for whom He died and was raised from the dead for, to bring forth fruit unto God. That fruit being both faith and repentance, repentance toward God and Faith in Jesus Christ

your dogma conflicts with Scripture

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[FreeGrace2]

This was posted oct 16:

Absolutely said:
Your last sentences tend to make me believe you are pushing hyper grace.

Not sure

Yeah, that's always a problem; too much grace. Right.

This is what the Bible says about grace:

James 4:6 -
But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

So, just keep on pushing your anti-grace opinion with the perjorative "hyper-grace" comments.

ps: "more grace" doesn't have a limit. Or prove otherwise.

Abs, can you prove there can be "too much grace"?

 

[Duckybill]

Let's see, God created all of us KNOWING who would burn in Hell forever and ever.

 

[brightfame52]

Did Christ's Death succeed its purpose ?

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

If Christ by His Death or His Offering of Himself, if by it each Person, each one He died for does not become zealous of Good Works as stated here [ See also Eph 2:10], His Death's Purpose was a Failure !

The word that here is important. Its the greek conjunction ἵνα and means:

in order that, so that


for the purpose that (in order that), looking to the aim (intended result) of the verbal idea

In other words, God's intended result in Christ giving Himself and He giving His Son Jn 3:16; Rom 8:32 as in order to produce certain and specific results, those being:

To redeem those He died for from all iniquity, and to purify unto himself a specially chosen people zealous of Good Works.

If This intention did not become a Reality for all whom Christ died, His Death failed God's Intended Purpose !

Then what about people who do not end up being a person zealous of good works ? Then simply Christ was not given for that person or persons !

 

[brightfame52]

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.





Caiaphas did not utter "by the inspiration of God". However, God uses the actions of those in opposition to Him to bring about His purpose.

From Barnes Notes on the Bible:

He uttered words which proved to be prophetic; or he expressed at that time a sentiment which turned out to be true. It does not mean that he was inspired, or that he deserved to be ranked among the true prophets; but his words were such that they accurately expressed a future event.​

Rather than take a verse and manipulate it to fit your dogma, read the whole context, brighfame52:

Jesus had just raised Lazarus from the dead (John 11:1 - 44) and many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on Him (vs 45). However, some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done (vs 46).

Then we see in John 11:47-48 then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

The council had gathered because they were more concerned about worldly affairs. Rather than believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah, they held a council and gave a commandment, that, if any man knew where he were, he should shew it, that they might take him (vs 57).


Caiaphas was not inspired by God. Caiaphas was, however, used to bring about the purpose of God.

Here is what occurred when Jesus was brought before Caiaphas:

Matthew 26:

57 And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.

...

59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands


Here's another interesting verse which brings to light those like Caiaphas and his ilk:

1 Corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.



READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

So you deny that Christs death prevents them He died for from perishing. You dont give Christs death no saving credit do you ? Its all about man.

 

[brightfame52]

your dogma conflicts with Scripture

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

You dont believe that Christs death produces spiritual fruit unto them He died for. Again you dont give Christs death no love for its saving efficacy, its all about man with you.

 

[brightfame52]

Did Christ's Death succeed its purpose ? 2

That He might bring us to God ! 1 Pet 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

This is ones subjective Reconciliation to God by way of Faith and Repentance ; or its our conversion to God. For this was a important purpose, intention for God giving His Son to die for those He died for, for if we be True Believers; That is by His Death or His once suffering for our sins, that this would result in our conversion to God !

Now if all for whom He suffered for their sins, are not as a result of that, converted to God, then His Death or Suffering for them failed its God given Purpose ! This bringing us to God or subjective reconciliation is effected because Christ through His Death did make Satisfaction for our sins, bearing the full penalty of the broken law for us as our Representative !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So you deny that Christs death prevents them He died for from perishing. You dont give Christs death no saving credit do you ? Its all about man.

haha ... so interesting ... you claim Caiaphas uttered words "by the inspiration of God" (Post #690) and when you are provided with proper interpretation of Scripture which clarifies Caiaphas did not speak "by the inspiration of God" (Post #692), you close your ears / harden your heart ... typical behavior from you.