The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
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From: Canons of Dort
Do you agree with the results of their study?
The Second Main Point of Doctrine: Christ’s Death and Human Redemption Through It
Article 8: The Saving Effectiveness of Christ’s Death
For it was the entirely free plan and very gracious will and intention of God the Father that the enlivening and saving effectiveness of his Son’s costly death should work itself out in all his chosen ones, in order that he might grant justifying faith to them only and thereby lead them without fail to salvation. In other words, it was God’s will that Christ through the blood of the cross (by which he confirmed the new covenant) should effectively redeem from every people, tribe, nation, and language all those and only those who were chosen from eternity to salvation and given to him by the Father; that he should grant them faith (which, like the Holy Spirit’s other saving gifts, he acquired for them by his death); that he should cleanse them by his blood from all their sins, both original and actual, whether committed before or after their coming to faith; that he should faithfully preserve them to the very end; and that he should finally present them to himself, a glorious people, without spot or wrinkle.
Rejection of Errors
Having set forth the orthodox teaching, the Synod rejects the errors of those:
III
Who teach that Christ, by the satisfaction which he gave, did not certainly merit for anyone salvation itself and the faith by which this satisfaction of Christ is effectively applied to salvation, but only acquired for the Father the authority or plenary will to relate in a new way with men and to impose such new conditions as he chose, and that the satisfying of these conditions depends on the free choice of man; consequently, that it was possible that either all or none would fulfill them.
For they have too low an opinion of the death of Christ, do not at all acknowledge the foremost fruit or benefit which it brings forth, and summon back from hell the Pelagian error.
Do you agree with the results of their study?
The Second Main Point of Doctrine: Christ’s Death and Human Redemption Through It
Article 8: The Saving Effectiveness of Christ’s Death
For it was the entirely free plan and very gracious will and intention of God the Father that the enlivening and saving effectiveness of his Son’s costly death should work itself out in all his chosen ones, in order that he might grant justifying faith to them only and thereby lead them without fail to salvation. In other words, it was God’s will that Christ through the blood of the cross (by which he confirmed the new covenant) should effectively redeem from every people, tribe, nation, and language all those and only those who were chosen from eternity to salvation and given to him by the Father; that he should grant them faith (which, like the Holy Spirit’s other saving gifts, he acquired for them by his death); that he should cleanse them by his blood from all their sins, both original and actual, whether committed before or after their coming to faith; that he should faithfully preserve them to the very end; and that he should finally present them to himself, a glorious people, without spot or wrinkle.
Rejection of Errors
Having set forth the orthodox teaching, the Synod rejects the errors of those:
III
Who teach that Christ, by the satisfaction which he gave, did not certainly merit for anyone salvation itself and the faith by which this satisfaction of Christ is effectively applied to salvation, but only acquired for the Father the authority or plenary will to relate in a new way with men and to impose such new conditions as he chose, and that the satisfying of these conditions depends on the free choice of man; consequently, that it was possible that either all or none would fulfill them.
For they have too low an opinion of the death of Christ, do not at all acknowledge the foremost fruit or benefit which it brings forth, and summon back from hell the Pelagian error.
I should have included in my prior reply that it is fully and completely a free gift from God through Christ alone but given only to those whom He had so chosen beforehand as His beneficiaries, by which, do all other attributes of salvation, such as faith and belief follow - but they are from salvation not bringing salvation.
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Glorying in the Cross of Christ !
Gal 6:14
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
True Believers Glory in the Cross for all of Salvation, not the Cross plus their freewill decision, or not the Cross and their faith and or repentance, but solely in the Cross of Christ, because by it alone we experience the reality of the World crucified unto us, and we to the world !
By His Cross We are not and cannot never come into condemnation with the world 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
By it, the Cross alone we are delivered from this present evil world according to the Purpose and Will of God the Father Gal 1:4-5
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that[purpose] he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 46
Gal 6:14
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
True Believers Glory in the Cross for all of Salvation, not the Cross plus their freewill decision, or not the Cross and their faith and or repentance, but solely in the Cross of Christ, because by it alone we experience the reality of the World crucified unto us, and we to the world !
I have been crucified to something and it has been crucified to me, so that we are dead to each other all fellowship and contact between us has ceased,
By His Cross We are not and cannot never come into condemnation with the world 1 Cor 11:32
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
By it, the Cross alone we are delivered from this present evil world according to the Purpose and Will of God the Father Gal 1:4-5
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that[purpose] he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 46
PaulThomson said:
How do you arrive at the conclusion that I am a universalist from my post? Is English your second language, BTW?
Well, sorry for disagreeing with you; but if I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
How do you arrive at the conclusion that I am a universalist from my post? Is English your second language, BTW?
Well, sorry for disagreeing with you; but if I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
Peter tells people to repent and believe so that God can send them the promised Holy Spirit. He does not tell them they just need to hope God sends them the Holy Spirit so that they can believe.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
It is not glorying in one's own free will decision to answer honestly when asked whether one needs to believe the gospel before we can receive the Holy Spirit. No Christians I know goes around jeering at and despising others who have not yet believed in Christ; and boasting that they earned their salvation by believing. the gospel. The ones I see going around boasting, are boasting in their own election; and are despising those who acknowledge that putting faith in Christ is needed before salvation, and that without faith it is impossible to find favour/grace with God.
Jacob/Israel represents spiritual Israel (God's elect - Rom 9:11). For they are not all Israel which are of Israel (Rom 9:6). For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew, which is one indwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Believing in spiritual things is not the cause of being born again, but is a product of having been born again There are born again Jews, at this present time, that believe in God, but do not believe that Jesus is their Savior, and are still awaiting his arrival.
Believing in spiritual things is not the cause of being born again, but is a product of having been born again There are born again Jews, at this present time, that believe in God, but do not believe that Jesus is their Savior, and are still awaiting his arrival.
the born again person has been given a soft fleshy heart, that can be pricked by God to feel spiritual guilt, to replace their heart of stone in their quickening. In Acts 2, Peter was directing his sermon to "the house of (spiritual) Israel" accusing them of being guilty of crucifying Christ, and they were "pricked" in their heart, and said to Peter, and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what must we do?
Those in Acts 7:54 who were not born again, and still had the heart of stone, upon hearing Stephen preaching the same sermon as Peter, When they heard these things, they were "cut to the heart" and they gnashed on him with their teeth. Notice the difference in their response over those in Acts 2.
So then, by that, you demonstrate you agree with my assessment of you and Kroogz - that you do not believe/agree with the most fundamental doctrine of the Bible: that Jesus Christ is actually the Saviour, right? You simply cannot have it both ways - He either is, or, He is not the Saviour, with nothing else possible in between the two. If He is, then He alone is, and He alone must be, the one who does the saving in its totality and completeness.
BTW: The "gift of the Spirit" is not the same event as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which indwelling, only happens upon
salvation, but the receiving of the gifts of the Holy Spirit occurs afterwards given to those already saved.
And true repentance can only be given to someone by God (2 Titus 2:25) - IOW, He must save them so that they repent.
[Act 10:44-47 KJV]
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
BTW: The "gift of the Spirit" is not the same event as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which indwelling, only happens upon
salvation, but the receiving of the gifts of the Holy Spirit occurs afterwards given to those already saved.
And true repentance can only be given to someone by God (2 Titus 2:25) - IOW, He must save them so that they repent.
[Act 10:44-47 KJV]
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[2Ti 2:25 KJV] 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
Acts 2:40&41 “With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”' Those who accepted his message were baptised, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.”
Jesus is the Saviour. But people must believe in Him to be saved, and in so doing they save themselves. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Jesus is the Saviour. But people must believe in Him to be saved, and in so doing they save themselves. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Yes, they actually are mutually exclusive of each other. Were what you say true, then Christ wouldn't/couldn't be the Saviour - it's as simple as that, but He IS the Saviour. Look at it this way: as I understand it, according to you, if someone believes then they become saved; if they don't believe they won't become saved, therefore, it depends upon an individual's actions/choices in order to become saved or not, making themselves saviour and not Christ. This then drags Christ into it only as a fait acompli to implement that which has already been determined by the person. With that in mind, how then could Christ be the Saviour, and not only implementor?
Salvation is fully and completely a gift from an exceedingly merciful and gracious God through Christ unto those who in no way deserve it. One's faith and believing comes from - as a result of - salvation, not leading to, nor bringing salvation. There can only be one Saviour who is Christ alone. You seem unwilling to eliminate man from the salvation equation, even though the Bible clearly tells us that it is Christ who is Saviour, again, confirming my prior assessment of you and Kroogz. You've placed yourself into direct contradiction of God's clear proclamation regarding Christ as Saviour.
Honestly, I know that you are a very smart guy, so I am kind of dumbfounded that you are unable to see this.
I've posted this before but will do so again in the hope that you might perceive what it is saying. Do you see within it that
to be able to believe in Christ, we must first be given the faith of Christ as a prerequisite? That means to believe we
must first have been saved.
[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Read John 6:37 - 6:39. Where do you find any participation of, or requirement of man, in order to become saved?
You won't be able to find it because it isn't there. Instead, the salvation transaction (so to speak) was implemented entirely between God the Father and Christ.
[Jhn 6:37, 39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Those of Acts 2:40 and 2:41 had already become saved and their actions a result of that.
Look at Acts 2:39. Do you see that it resulted from God's promise, and is unconditionally/unequivocally manifested and granted specifically unto only "as many as the Lord our God shall call"? A person's choices play no part in the receiving of it - but only of God.
[Act 2:39 KJV] 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Salvation is fully and completely a gift from an exceedingly merciful and gracious God through Christ unto those who in no way deserve it. One's faith and believing comes from - as a result of - salvation, not leading to, nor bringing salvation. There can only be one Saviour who is Christ alone. You seem unwilling to eliminate man from the salvation equation, even though the Bible clearly tells us that it is Christ who is Saviour, again, confirming my prior assessment of you and Kroogz. You've placed yourself into direct contradiction of God's clear proclamation regarding Christ as Saviour.
Honestly, I know that you are a very smart guy, so I am kind of dumbfounded that you are unable to see this.
I've posted this before but will do so again in the hope that you might perceive what it is saying. Do you see within it that
to be able to believe in Christ, we must first be given the faith of Christ as a prerequisite? That means to believe we
must first have been saved.
[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Read John 6:37 - 6:39. Where do you find any participation of, or requirement of man, in order to become saved?
You won't be able to find it because it isn't there. Instead, the salvation transaction (so to speak) was implemented entirely between God the Father and Christ.
[Jhn 6:37, 39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Those of Acts 2:40 and 2:41 had already become saved and their actions a result of that.
Look at Acts 2:39. Do you see that it resulted from God's promise, and is unconditionally/unequivocally manifested and granted specifically unto only "as many as the Lord our God shall call"? A person's choices play no part in the receiving of it - but only of God.
[Act 2:39 KJV] 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.