The BAC must endure in the faith to the end of life to be saved

[Jason0047]

They endured because out of love they obeyed the guidance of the Lord.
We work together, hand and hand, with the Lord our God for salvation. We are not puppets, and do not still have free will to chose. This and our Lord Jesus calls the Holy Spirit our helper, not controller. There will be some out their that will refuse the guidance and the power of the Holy Spirit, which is the unforgivable sin. It is only if your faith is rooted strongly in Christ, and you obey the guidance of the Holy Spirit and its working in you that you will endure.

Those who endure are the Elect. They are God's chosen. The Lord our God had chosen His people before they were born and before the foundation of the world. No man can repent and or be spiritually regenerated of their own power. No man can deepen his relationship with Christ by His own power. They need God to transform them and to help them to connect with the Lord. Does this mean God forces salvation on people? No, of course not. What this means is that God is aware of your future free will choices and He draws a person and grants them repentance. Somebody that God knows is wicked in this life is not going to be given repentance (Even despite God commanding all men to repent). In other words, you think it is primarily you who must overcome, when in reality is it is Jesus who works in you to do so. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. But you would rather have me believe that it is you who is the author and finisher of your faith.

 

[kennethcadwell]

When did prophecy become a command?

Christ gave a command to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart.

You compound your error with an incorrect exegesis of Matthew 28. You want to make everyone obey yet you refuse to allow Christ to do what He came to do. Christ came not be ministered unto but to minister. No one can obey until they first allow Christ to serve them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Matthew 10:22 was not a prophecy, it was Lord Jesus warning the apostles/disciples of what they would go through to spread the good news. They would go through trials and tribulations because areas would not accept what they were sent to preach. Therefore they would be arrested, beaten, ran out of town, stoned, spit on, and then even killed. He was telling them they would have to endure all of this, and not to lose heart or through fear turn from God's will to deliver the gospel message of salvation. Once they have endured all of this, and stayed firm in their faith to Him then they would be saved.....

And we know what their fate was by giving the gospel message, where it was not welcomed;

Peter- crucified upside down


Paul- beheaded


Matthew- slain by a halberd


John- exiled on Patmos

James- put to deat by the sword by Herod Agrippa ( Acts 12:2 )


Andrew- crucified by Roman Governor, Aegeas( Aegeates )
{ bound not nailed to cross to prolong suffering }


Bartholomew- beaten with rods and then beheaded


James, son of Alpheus- beaten, stoned, then clubbed to death


Thomas- thrust through with spears, tortured with red hot plates, and then burned alive.


Philip- tortured, stoned, crucified upside down


Simon- crucified and/or sawed in half


Judas Thaddeus- beaten to death in Mesopotamia


Judas- committed suicide for betraying Jesus


Matthias- (replaced Judas) stoned to death


If you don't think this kind of stuff still happens, just try to preach Jesus in a ISIS controlled area, and North Korea for examples. See if you are not arrested, or killed for trying to give His good news.

 

[thecreationtutor]

what's BAC stand for?

 

[kennethcadwell]

what's BAC stand for?

Born again Christian

 

[kennethcadwell]

Those who endure are the Elect. They are God's chosen. The Lord our God had chosen His people before they were born and before the foundation of the world. No man can repent and or be spiritually regenerated of their own power. No man can deepen his relationship with Christ by His own power. They need God to transform them and to help them to connect with the Lord. Does this mean God forces salvation on people? No, of course not. What this means is that God is aware of your future free will choices and He draws a person and grants them repentance. Somebody that God knows is wicked in this life is not going to be given repentance (Even despite God commanding all men to repent). In other words, you think it is primarily you who must overcome, when in reality is it is Jesus who works in you to do so. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. But you would rather have me believe that it is you who is the author and finisher of your faith.

Try to twist things as you may, but I nowhere said that I am the author and finisher of my faith.
That is your twist, and your way of trying to make a fellow brother and sister in Christ look bad in front of others. By posting false things they never said, and I have seen a handful of your type on here that do this wrong rewording and posting of saying somebody said something they didn't.


What I said, is that we work hand and hand with our Lord for salvation.
He is the author and finisher of our faith, but you still have to accept His working in your life and obey what He tells you to do. If the Holy Spirit tells you to jump up and down 100 times, who are we to question Him and say no we don't have to. Yet that is what some people do when they say baptism is not necessary. Lord Jesus commanded, yet others say no don't follow His command it is not necessary. What love are you really showing Him by denying His command, and teaching others they don't have to either?
The bible says in many places that some even though they believe in the Lord, will neglect and deny to do as He commanded. Then when judgment comes they will be gnashing and wailing of the teeth, because they taught they were saved but really weren't because their denial to obey His teaching and stayed living to self.

 

[AtonedFor]

Matthew 28:16-20
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee,
to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.
17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
18 Then Jesus came to them and said,
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Sorry, just cannot resist blowin' some minds here ...
Ready, set, GO ...

The disciples were to go out and teach all new disciples to confirm
the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ by performing signs and wonders,
which is what Jesus taught His disciples and commanded them to do!

 

[dcontroversal]

Try to twist things as you may, but I nowhere said that I am the author and finisher of my faith.
That is your twist, and your way of trying to make a fellow brother and sister in Christ look bad in front of others. By posting false things they never said, and I have seen a handful of your type on here that do this wrong rewording and posting of saying somebody said something they didn't.

QUOTE]

He seems to do that quite a bit and is not open to learning and instruction which is why I wont discuss anything with him anymore.....he constantly twists what is said, jumps around and changes the subject when nailed down on something he cannot refute with scripture in context!

 

[AtonedFor]

Try to twist things as you may, but I nowhere said that I am the author and finisher of my faith. That is your twist, and your way of trying to make a fellow brother and sister in Christ look bad in front of others. By posting false things they never said, and I have seen a handful of your type on here that do this wrong rewording and posting of saying somebody said something they didn't.

Yes, it really saddens me to see Jason lessen himself by resorting to such tactics.
I WAS giving him the benefit of the doubt ... thinking he was simply being careless!

WORDS have MEANING and VALUE ... and should not be glossed over lightly.

Some of us here actually say what we mean and mean what we say.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Sorry, just cannot resist blowin' some minds here ...
Ready, set, GO ...

The disciples were to go out and teach all new disciples to confirm
the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ by performing signs and wonders,
which is what Jesus taught His disciples and commanded them to do!

Yes it is amazing how people want to debate with us against our posting of what exactly our Lord Jesus said.
Then they want to justify their disobedience to His teaching by saying does not apply to us, or reverse the scripture around to have what was said at the end to the beginning. Like for example, I have lost track of how many times I have heard this done to Matthew 10:22;

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved ( True scripture )

This is how they try to word it;

And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who is saved will endure to the end ( False reversal )

 

[AtonedFor]

John - exiled on Patmos

IMO, John was blessed during his time on Patmos.

This island is just off the western coast of Turkey,
and it is very close to all 7 churches mentioned in Rev 2-3.

I've been inside the beautiful cave where he received and wrote the Revelation.
It is believed that Mary, the mother of Jesus, spent her last days on Patmos with him.

 

[Jason0047]

Try to twist things as you may, but I nowhere said that I am the author and finisher of my faith.
That is your twist, and your way of trying to make a fellow brother and sister in Christ look bad in front of others. By posting false things they never said, and I have seen a handful of your type on here that do this wrong rewording and posting of saying somebody said something they didn't.

It's not a twist. It's the truth. When you quote verses so as to promote "Works Salvation" that is exactly what it means. Jesus cannot be the author and finisher of your faith because you need to help Him out. What he did at the cross was not enough to save you. You need to do certain things in addition to what He done on the cross so as to be saved. You need to work at helping Him to save you.

For how are you saved RIGHT NOW?
Is it based on your own righteousness or is it based on what Christ had done for you?

Titus 3:5 says we are saved not of righteous works that we have done but by his mercy he saved us.

What I said, is that we work hand and hand with our Lord for salvation.
He is the author and finisher of our faith, but you still have to accept His working in your life and obey what He tells you to do. If the Holy Spirit tells you to jump up and down 100 times, who are we to question Him and say no we don't have to. Yet that is what some people do when they say baptism is not necessary. Lord Jesus commanded, yet others say no don't follow His command it is not necessary. What love are you really showing Him by denying His command, and teaching others they don't have to either?
The bible says in many places that some even though they believe in the Lord, will neglect and deny to do as He commanded. Then when judgment comes they will be gnashing and wailing of the teeth, because they taught they were saved but really weren't because their denial to obey His teaching and stayed living to self.

Those who did not obey did not choose to truly repent and or seek the Lord with all their heart and mind are not the Elect. Those who truly choose the Lord in this life and have that deep connection with God or Christ will naturally obey God's Laws because they are changed spiritually and or are chosen to be a part of His Kingdom. They are no longer caterpillars but butterlfies. Those who fall away from the faith were not rooted in God's Word. They had a spurious faith in Christ. It was a weak faith and not a deep faith. They were not rooted in Christ and or His Word. So they fell away due to persecution and or the cares of this life.

 

[notuptome]

Matthew 10:22 was not a prophecy, it was Lord Jesus warning the apostles/disciples of what they would go through to spread the good news. They would go through trials and tribulations because areas would not accept what they were sent to preach. Therefore they would be arrested, beaten, ran out of town, stoned, spit on, and then even killed. He was telling them they would have to endure all of this, and not to lose heart or through fear turn from God's will to deliver the gospel message of salvation. Once they have endured all of this, and stayed firm in their faith to Him then they would be saved.....

And we know what their fate was by giving the gospel message, where it was not welcomed;

Peter- crucified upside down


Paul- beheaded


Matthew- slain by a halberd


John- exiled on Patmos

James- put to deat by the sword by Herod Agrippa ( Acts 12:2 )


Andrew- crucified by Roman Governor, Aegeas( Aegeates )
{ bound not nailed to cross to prolong suffering }


Bartholomew- beaten with rods and then beheaded


James, son of Alpheus- beaten, stoned, then clubbed to death


Thomas- thrust through with spears, tortured with red hot plates, and then burned alive.


Philip- tortured, stoned, crucified upside down


Simon- crucified and/or sawed in half


Judas Thaddeus- beaten to death in Mesopotamia


Judas- committed suicide for betraying Jesus


Matthias- (replaced Judas) stoned to death


If you don't think this kind of stuff still happens, just try to preach Jesus in a ISIS controlled area, and North Korea for examples. See if you are not arrested, or killed for trying to give His good news.

You are comparing apples to oranges. If that was for the Apostles then with the death of the last Apostle everything would be consummated. Jesus is speaking to the great tribulation that Daniel spoke of in the book of the same name.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

He seems to do that quite a bit and is not open to learning and instruction which is why I wont discuss anything with him anymore.....he constantly twists what is said, jumps around and changes the subject when nailed down on something he cannot refute with scripture in context!

I can say the same to you, dear sir.
Also, although I have forgiven you, you have verbally attacked me in calling me names.

 

[notuptome]

Sorry, just cannot resist blowin' some minds here ...
Ready, set, GO ...

The disciples were to go out and teach all new disciples to confirm
the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ by performing signs and wonders,
which is what Jesus taught His disciples and commanded them to do!

You are certainly blowin' something.

You make a lot of stuff up to suit your own purposes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

It's not a twist. It's the truth. When you quote verses so as to promote "Works Salvation" that is exactly what it means. Jesus cannot be the author and finisher of your faith because you need to help Him out. What he did at the cross was not enough to save you. You need to do certain things in addition to what He done on the cross so as to be saved. You need to work at helping Him to save you.

For how are you saved RIGHT NOW?
Is it based on your own righteousness or is it based on what Christ had done for you?

Titus 3:5 says we are saved not of righteous works that we have done but by his mercy he saved us.



Those who did not obey did not choose to truly repent and or seek the Lord with all their heart and mind are not the Elect. Those who truly choose the Lord in this life and have that deep connection with God or Christ will naturally obey God's Laws because they are changed spiritually and or are chosen to be a part of His Kingdom. They are no longer caterpillars but butterlfies. Those who fall away from the faith were not rooted in God's Word. They had a spurious faith in Christ. It was a weak faith and not a deep faith. They were not rooted in Christ and or His Word. So they fell away due to persecution and or the cares of this life.

The difference is you do not understand when one is posting works done out of love for the Lord, and confuse it with one who is trying to use works to earn salvation.

Lord Jesus even said things that a believer in Him will do, and if these things are not done by a believer then they are disobedient and do not truly love or trust Him.

 

[Sophia]

1 Jn 5:13 makes eternal life CONDITIONAL upon one having a present tense, continual belief.

Eternal security says salvation is UNconditional meaning one could quit believing and still be saved anyway.

What is belief then? A shallow acknowledgement that something is true? A verbal confession during a time of heightened emotion or desperation? If "belief" is one of those things, then you would be right.... but it's not.

 

[Jason0047]

The difference is you do not understand when one is posting works done out of love for the Lord, and confuse it with one who is trying to use works to earn salvation.

Lord Jesus even said things that a believer in Him will do, and if these things are not done by a believer then they are disobedient and do not truly love or trust Him.

Do you believe in Works Salvation? Yes or no?
Do you believe Jesus does not save you on the basis of your own righteous deeds? Yes or no?

Do you understand that I am not promoting a true believer will have no works? Yes or no?

For a true believer is saved by God's grace will naturally produce fruitful works. Not so as to be saved because they are saved.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You are comparing apples to oranges. If that was for the Apostles then with the death of the last Apostle everything would be consummated. Jesus is speaking to the great tribulation that Daniel spoke of in the book of the same name.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Know I am not comparing apples to oranges.
What our Lord Jesus told the Apostles/disciples of His time to watch out for and to stand firm, and then also says for those who go through the tribulation period the same thing. Then it also applies to us. We are not exempt from the same teaching and commands given by Jesus to them back then, and to those in the future.
The teachings given to them still apply to us today.

Once again I will say to you, Matthew 10 has nothing to do with the tribulation or the 3 1/2 years of great tribulation. That is not done tell He tells them the same thing in Matthew 24.

Matthew 10 is His commanding and warning of going out and spreading the gospel and what they would go through in unwelcomed areas.

Matthew 24 is what those who are alive will go through in the tribulation period.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Do you believe in Works Salvation? Yes or no?
Do you believe Jesus does not save you on the basis of your own righteous deeds? Yes or no?

Do you understand that I am not promoting a true believer will have no works? Yes or no?

For a true believer is saved by God's grace will naturally produce fruitful works. Not so as to be saved because they are saved.

Do I believe in works to earn salvation? No I don't, and I have stated that over and over again.

Do I believe that works are a part of a believers life, and go hand and hand with showing one is saved unto salvation? YES

Do I believe that if a person disobey's the Lord by not following His commandments then they are not saved? YES

 

[notuptome]

Know I am not comparing apples to oranges.
What our Lord Jesus told the Apostles/disciples of His time to watch out for and to stand firm, and then also says for those who go through the tribulation period the same thing. Then it also applies to us. We are not exempt from the same teaching and commands given by Jesus to them back then, and to those in the future.
The teachings given to them still apply to us today.

Once again I will say to you, Matthew 10 has nothing to do with the tribulation or the 3 1/2 years of great tribulation. That is not done tell He tells them the same thing in Matthew 24.

Matthew 10 is His commanding and warning of going out and spreading the gospel and what they would go through in unwelcomed areas.

Matthew 24 is what those who are alive will go through in the tribulation period.

Nope you are reading into the scriptures not reading out of them. You are attempting to prop up unsound doctrine by injecting into the passage something that is not there.

For the cause of Christ
Roger