The book of Job, my favorite book.
- Thread starter tttallison
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I agree with you. Understanding the role Elihu takes is a key to understanding this book.
Job 34:4 Let us choose to us judgment: H4941 let us know among ourselves what is good. The Hebrew word translated judgment is a legal term.
Job 33:5 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.
Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.
Job 33:7 Behold, my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.
Elihu describes Job's condition and explains why it is so.
Job 33:22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.
Job 33:23 If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: If there be a witness for God (Are we not to be witnesses?)
Job 33:24 Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. (Jesus)
Job 33:25His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth: Elihu is speaking of Job's rebirth.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Elihu is presenting the picture of salvation.
Job 33:26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness. Job spoke what was right to God in chapter 40 and then he saw God.
Job 33:27 He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not;
Job 33:28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. A beautiful picture of salvation.
Job 33:32 If thou hast any thing to say, answer me: speak, for I desire to justify thee. Elihu gives Job a chance to make confession for salvation.
Job 34:35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
Job 34:36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
Job 34:37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
Job 35:14 Although thou sayest thou shalt not see him, yet judgment is before him; therefore trust thou in him.
Job 35:15 But now, because it is not so, he hath visited in his anger; yet he knoweth it not in great extremity:
Job 35:16 Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge.
Job 36:3 I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.
Job 36:4 For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.
Job 34:4 Let us choose to us judgment: H4941 let us know among ourselves what is good. The Hebrew word translated judgment is a legal term.
- judgment
- act of deciding a case
- place, court, seat of judgment
- process, procedure, litigation (before judges)
- case, cause (presented for judgment)
- sentence, decision (of judgment)
- execution (of judgment)
- time (of judgment)
Job 33:5 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up.
Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.
Job 33:7 Behold, my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.
Elihu describes Job's condition and explains why it is so.
Job 33:22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.
Job 33:23 If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: If there be a witness for God (Are we not to be witnesses?)
Job 33:24 Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. (Jesus)
Job 33:25His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth: Elihu is speaking of Job's rebirth.
Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Elihu is presenting the picture of salvation.
Job 33:26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness. Job spoke what was right to God in chapter 40 and then he saw God.
Job 33:27 He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not;
Job 33:28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light. A beautiful picture of salvation.
Job 33:32 If thou hast any thing to say, answer me: speak, for I desire to justify thee. Elihu gives Job a chance to make confession for salvation.
Job 34:35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
Job 34:36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
Job 34:37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
Job 35:14 Although thou sayest thou shalt not see him, yet judgment is before him; therefore trust thou in him.
Job 35:15 But now, because it is not so, he hath visited in his anger; yet he knoweth it not in great extremity:
Job 35:16 Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge.
Job 36:3 I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.
Job 36:4 For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.
Maybe I should have asked for the same thing. I'd be more thankful then; but I hoped for less adversity.
I think Job is actually replying to Eliphaz here- specifically the visions of Eliphaz in Ch. 4 v. 12-21... unless you mean he presented them to Job through Eliphaz... but having a dream and hearing about someone else's dream are a little different.
Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job 7:18 And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
So to the point of the Book of Job, it seems some people cannot accept Job's innocence. They are adamant that he MUST have done something wrong in order for him to suffer as he does. Yet we know it is explicit in the text that Job's suffering is not due to something he has done wrong.
If you apply this logic to Jesus' circumstance, you would deduce that Jesus also did something wrong to suffer as He did. Actually, many people during his situation also took this same stance.
If you apply this logic to Jesus' circumstance, you would deduce that Jesus also did something wrong to suffer as He did. Actually, many people during his situation also took this same stance.
I don't believe the reason for Job's suffering was directly related to him sinning. I believe God was showing him the depth of the sin still residing in his heart. The suffering, because it seemed unjust, revealed that Job had deeper heart issues. In revealing this to Job, God also revealed Himself to Job in a deeper and more intimate way; so much so that the difference in Job's understanding and experience of God was likened to the difference between hearing and seeing.
Jesus Himself justly suffered as suffering was a requirement of becoming the Savior of mankind and God's Anointed servant.
Jesus Himself justly suffered as suffering was a requirement of becoming the Savior of mankind and God's Anointed servant.
Job repents in dust and ashes (Job 42:6) so, he must've done something...
The difference between Elihu and the other three is the claim of when Job sinned. The three claimed his sin was the cause of his suffering, but Elihu claims that his suffering was the cause of his sin, and indeed, this is when Elihu could not hold his peace any longer. There is a school of thought that connects the young Elihu to Elijah but my search terms were insufficient in retrieving any articles this time that had expressed that idea. However, this one looked similar to the title of the article I was trying to recall, enough that I read it to see if it was the one I was thinking of an, even though isn't the article I was actually searching for, I believe it sums up the lesson of Job quite adequately.
The difference between Elihu and the other three is the claim of when Job sinned. The three claimed his sin was the cause of his suffering, but Elihu claims that his suffering was the cause of his sin, and indeed, this is when Elihu could not hold his peace any longer. There is a school of thought that connects the young Elihu to Elijah but my search terms were insufficient in retrieving any articles this time that had expressed that idea. However, this one looked similar to the title of the article I was trying to recall, enough that I read it to see if it was the one I was thinking of an, even though isn't the article I was actually searching for, I believe it sums up the lesson of Job quite adequately.
I love reading yours and everyone else's thoughts on Job as funnily enough it is also one of my favourite books of the bible.
I do read it from a slightly different perspective, I see Job as more deeply revealing Christ to us, I think people think the Lord as a wee bit mechanical or going through the rotes with His life on earth from His birth to the cross. Yet I see Him as anything but. Just from the point of view there is no record of how the Lord is thinking about things in the gospel accounts. To me Job is a great way to reveal how the Lord thinks.
For example from reading Job and seeing his anguish and sufferings we get an insight to the Lords anguish and sufferings, When the Lords own denied Him(Looking at you Peter) when the sheep fled, when His own family distanced themselves, we don't really get much insight to the Lords thinking. Yet reading Job I see the Lord in turmoil, I see Him experiencing real human emotions, Which means I see Him as being able to relate to us fully.
For example I read Job ch 16 in the same way as I read Isa 53, and relate it to the Lord going to the cross, Job 16:1 then Job(Jesus) answered and said:
This is a massive subject and awesome book, for me when I see and understand the Lord literally speaking to us here, it makes me feel like I am getting to know Jesus not just as God, who came and died for my sins, but as a person with real emotions and feelings and I so want to know him more and be His personal friend, and I talk to him more about my problems as He can totally understand them, for he has truly experienced what it is like to be human. To me its forming a more real relationship.
This might sound weird so I wont go into it, but even when God said to Satan "have you considered my servant Job that there is none like him", He was also actually pointing everyone to consider Jesus.
So I also see God challenging Satan, with "have you considered my Son, Jesus that there is none like Him."
Which sets the theme for the book of Job, right through to the last chapter of Job, when Job was restored and doubly blessed.
To me the person of Job is a wonderful picture of our Jesus our savior, not just as God come in the flesh but as a man and friend.
I do read it from a slightly different perspective, I see Job as more deeply revealing Christ to us, I think people think the Lord as a wee bit mechanical or going through the rotes with His life on earth from His birth to the cross. Yet I see Him as anything but. Just from the point of view there is no record of how the Lord is thinking about things in the gospel accounts. To me Job is a great way to reveal how the Lord thinks.
For example from reading Job and seeing his anguish and sufferings we get an insight to the Lords anguish and sufferings, When the Lords own denied Him(Looking at you Peter) when the sheep fled, when His own family distanced themselves, we don't really get much insight to the Lords thinking. Yet reading Job I see the Lord in turmoil, I see Him experiencing real human emotions, Which means I see Him as being able to relate to us fully.
For example I read Job ch 16 in the same way as I read Isa 53, and relate it to the Lord going to the cross, Job 16:1 then Job(Jesus) answered and said:
This is a massive subject and awesome book, for me when I see and understand the Lord literally speaking to us here, it makes me feel like I am getting to know Jesus not just as God, who came and died for my sins, but as a person with real emotions and feelings and I so want to know him more and be His personal friend, and I talk to him more about my problems as He can totally understand them, for he has truly experienced what it is like to be human. To me its forming a more real relationship.
This might sound weird so I wont go into it, but even when God said to Satan "have you considered my servant Job that there is none like him", He was also actually pointing everyone to consider Jesus.
So I also see God challenging Satan, with "have you considered my Son, Jesus that there is none like Him."
Which sets the theme for the book of Job, right through to the last chapter of Job, when Job was restored and doubly blessed.
To me the person of Job is a wonderful picture of our Jesus our savior, not just as God come in the flesh but as a man and friend.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I think it’s best to let the Book of Job and all books of the Bible to speak to us. I don’t see the Bible as having puzzle pieces. I see myself as having entered the war against the flesh the day my eyes were opened and I confessed my faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. That day, I had not idea how much I didn’t know and how God would change me over time. I read scripture to strengthen myself against the flesh. We are at war with our flesh. That is our main condition. I can’t speak for anyone else but I did not change overnight. Certain things were opened to me by the Spirit of God, to my understanding. I was just reading and asking God to show me what I need to know. Precept upon precept, line upon line is exactly that. I have become stronger and more wise with time. The word of God that cuts like a two edges sword is not a puzzle for me to discover pieces. I am desperate to at least not anger God with my weaknesses and, as Paul wrote, wretched self. When I read Job, I don’t see a man questioning why he’s suffering because he thinks he’s righteous. I see Job wanting to know why he has fallen into such calamity and his whole position is of himself being a subject of God and God having supreme authority, as indeed He does.
Have any considered that Job was living in fear? Was he not sacrificing continually for his children “IN CASE” they were in sin? Satan didn’t even know Job had fallen into sin by fear. God had to say, “BEHOLD”…everything he has is in your hands….Proof that Satan is not omnipotent and all knowing. Just because Satan said God put a hedge around Job does not mean God put a hedge around him. Does God put hedges around people? Doesn’t God allow us to suffer so we can be made stronger? That’s been my experience. God has given me victories over many things, every single thing…but not really until I was able to choose the right way or learn what I needed.
When I read people discuss Job, I feel like it’s a continuation of the conversation Job was having with his friends.
Have any considered that Job was living in fear? Was he not sacrificing continually for his children “IN CASE” they were in sin? Satan didn’t even know Job had fallen into sin by fear. God had to say, “BEHOLD”…everything he has is in your hands….Proof that Satan is not omnipotent and all knowing. Just because Satan said God put a hedge around Job does not mean God put a hedge around him. Does God put hedges around people? Doesn’t God allow us to suffer so we can be made stronger? That’s been my experience. God has given me victories over many things, every single thing…but not really until I was able to choose the right way or learn what I needed.
When I read people discuss Job, I feel like it’s a continuation of the conversation Job was having with his friends.
Comparison between David and Job
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:1 [[A Psalm of David, to bring to remembrance.]] O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:2 For thine arrows stick fast in me, and thy hand presseth me sore.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.
Job 33:21His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen; and his bones that were not seen stick out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.
Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
Job 30:31 My harp also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.
Job 30:18 By the great force of my disease is my garment changed: it bindeth me about as the collar of my coat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:10 My heart panteth, my strength faileth me: as for the light of mine eyes, it also is gone from me.
Job 30:26 When I looked for good, then evil came unto me: and when I waited for light, there came darkness.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:11 My lovers and my friends stand aloof from my sore; and my kinsmen stand afar off.
Job 19:19 All my inward friends abhorred me: and they whom I loved are turned against me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:1 [[A Psalm of David, to bring to remembrance.]] O LORD, rebuke me not in thy wrath: neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.
Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:2 For thine arrows stick fast in me, and thy hand presseth me sore.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.
Job 33:21His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen; and his bones that were not seen stick out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.
Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:5 My wounds stink and are corrupt because of my foolishness.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:6 I am troubled; I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
Job 30:31 My harp also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:7 For my loins are filled with a loathsome disease: and there is no soundness in my flesh.
Job 30:18 By the great force of my disease is my garment changed: it bindeth me about as the collar of my coat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:10 My heart panteth, my strength faileth me: as for the light of mine eyes, it also is gone from me.
Job 30:26 When I looked for good, then evil came unto me: and when I waited for light, there came darkness.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 38:11 My lovers and my friends stand aloof from my sore; and my kinsmen stand afar off.
Job 19:19 All my inward friends abhorred me: and they whom I loved are turned against me.
This is an excellent take on an aspect that wasn't being considered. Jesus was not only fulfilling scripture and bringing the gospel...Isaiah 61...He was also doing the work of providing the blessings of the gospel in His earthly ministry. But as you point out, His entire existence was one of suffering. He suffered the loss of glory, He suffered the hardships of life, He suffered in humility before men, and finally the indignity and anguish of the cross. He truly bore our iniquity.
I also like the way you have humanized Jesus. We often forget His humanity. This was made clearer to me as I watched Chosen. Though it didn't follow the biblical script and has other problems, it does a good job of humanizing Jesus.
I find your insights very refreshing and helpful.
I also like the way you have humanized Jesus. We often forget His humanity. This was made clearer to me as I watched Chosen. Though it didn't follow the biblical script and has other problems, it does a good job of humanizing Jesus.
I find your insights very refreshing and helpful.
-
1
- Show all
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you that through this trial Job comes to a much deeper and more intimate understanding of God. Absolutely. However, the deeper heart issue stuff is nowhere in the text. Nowhere can we find that as part of the story. The premise of what is happening to Job is clearly laid out for the reader in chapters 1 & 2.
Satan does not believe Job will serve God if God allows him to lose everything. That is the test. God allows it and Job does not abandon his relationship with God, albeit he is utterly dumbfounded as to what is happening and why. As we know, in the end, Job never curses God and even gets to see God with his own eyes. Where does it say anything about dealing with some deep, undisclosed, mysterious heart issue? I don't see anything like that in this story.
Jesus was an innocent Man who suffered (and yes, we know why). Job was also an innocent man who suffered. Job did not accomplish what Jesus accomplished - but don't you see a striking parallel here? Do you see the similarity?
Satan does not believe Job will serve God if God allows him to lose everything. That is the test. God allows it and Job does not abandon his relationship with God, albeit he is utterly dumbfounded as to what is happening and why. As we know, in the end, Job never curses God and even gets to see God with his own eyes. Where does it say anything about dealing with some deep, undisclosed, mysterious heart issue? I don't see anything like that in this story.
Jesus was an innocent Man who suffered (and yes, we know why). Job was also an innocent man who suffered. Job did not accomplish what Jesus accomplished - but don't you see a striking parallel here? Do you see the similarity?
Have you ever considered applying this logic to Elihu? I would suggest it is more fitting with him.
Also, some of Job's statements are utterly profound, even prophetic. He says for instance in 19:25, "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth."
Also, it's Job's friends who are the ones saying things that sound "right", but as we find out in the end, God rebukes them for not speaking rightly about Him. Your assessment obviously applies to them as well.
I would also not encourage denigrating Job's words since God Himself states (twice) that Job has spoken rightly of Him (God).
Also, some of Job's statements are utterly profound, even prophetic. He says for instance in 19:25, "For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth."
Also, it's Job's friends who are the ones saying things that sound "right", but as we find out in the end, God rebukes them for not speaking rightly about Him. Your assessment obviously applies to them as well.
I would also not encourage denigrating Job's words since God Himself states (twice) that Job has spoken rightly of Him (God).
Question: if Job sinned, where is his required sacrifice? The three friends were rebuked by God and required to offer a sacrifice for their sin. So if you conclude Job sinned, where is his sacrifice?
Also, consider the Hebrew word for "repent". It seems to me many people get hung up on this word and use it to indict Job.
Strong's Hebrew 5162: 1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself
After all of Job's suffering, he gets to see God. Don't you think he would find this comforting? Don't you think Job is consoled by God's appearance to him? In fact, saying he "repents" comes directly after his expression of gratitude in stating that he has not gotten to see God with his own eyes (as compared to only hearing Him before). And the test is over here. Don't you think Job would be finally relieved?
Also, consider the Hebrew word for "repent". It seems to me many people get hung up on this word and use it to indict Job.
Strong's Hebrew 5162: 1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself
After all of Job's suffering, he gets to see God. Don't you think he would find this comforting? Don't you think Job is consoled by God's appearance to him? In fact, saying he "repents" comes directly after his expression of gratitude in stating that he has not gotten to see God with his own eyes (as compared to only hearing Him before). And the test is over here. Don't you think Job would be finally relieved?
What sacrifice is sufficient to atone for unbelief? It is my opinion that this is the one unforgiveable sin.
42:6 Therefore, after I abhor myself and (comfort myself) in dust and ashes
Why therefore does he abhor himself and sit in dust in ashes to make himself feel better? Paraphrasing 42:5, "I have heard of you but now I see you." That is, "I've heard tell of You but only now have I 'realized' the truth of Your reputation, Your character, Your integrity, indeed, is unassailable (and I now can't believe that I dared to think any different)."
Matthew 12:32 explains the unforgiveable sin which will not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come to be speaking against the Holy Spirit (the reputation, the integrity, the character of God). So, it seems that sitting in dust and ashes would be insufficient, but Job's gesture had obviously pleased God so much that He restored, and double at that. Why? In retrospect, all atonement has been made in Christ once for all, for every sin other than that of unbelief and, me speaking without actual knowledge until further research on the significance of repenting in dust and ashes, I can only suspect that Job comforting himself in dust and ashes is his acknowledgement that he, Job, is, effectively dead, and trust in God's mercy and resurrective power as the only way 'back' to Him. As we do all know that way, The Way, is provided from the foundation of the world. And that genuine belief is the only sacrifice that is sufficient to offer and, indeed, that can be, as the only such that even have left to. It's all we can offer that wouldn't be a blasphemous (I can't think of an adequate word...insult?) to Christ's offering, and especially now that we have no legitimate excuse that He would not nor has offered it.
When God was asking Job, where were you when... He was affectively informing Job that, if no one else was there, He was there... in answer to Job's complaint that many of us have entertained at least once in our life, "God, where were you when...?" God was there, in Job's suffering, and Job realized that Satan would have used all of his power to destroy Job if it were not for God's hedge around the life of Job in saying, "you may not..."
So, imo, Job's indictment is that he stumbled in faith, which is arguable the most dangerous sin in which there is no atonement for, rather than the 'run of the mill' commandments which all have been atoned for at any rate. And, at the root of unbelief is fear, in Job's case, that God had abandoned him, and his relief comes from the realization that 'I shall never leave you nor forsake you.' And that is the spirit of what Job had spoken rightly, that which is of God's true character.
42:6 Therefore, after I abhor myself and (comfort myself) in dust and ashes
Why therefore does he abhor himself and sit in dust in ashes to make himself feel better? Paraphrasing 42:5, "I have heard of you but now I see you." That is, "I've heard tell of You but only now have I 'realized' the truth of Your reputation, Your character, Your integrity, indeed, is unassailable (and I now can't believe that I dared to think any different)."
Matthew 12:32 explains the unforgiveable sin which will not be forgiven either in this age or the age to come to be speaking against the Holy Spirit (the reputation, the integrity, the character of God). So, it seems that sitting in dust and ashes would be insufficient, but Job's gesture had obviously pleased God so much that He restored, and double at that. Why? In retrospect, all atonement has been made in Christ once for all, for every sin other than that of unbelief and, me speaking without actual knowledge until further research on the significance of repenting in dust and ashes, I can only suspect that Job comforting himself in dust and ashes is his acknowledgement that he, Job, is, effectively dead, and trust in God's mercy and resurrective power as the only way 'back' to Him. As we do all know that way, The Way, is provided from the foundation of the world. And that genuine belief is the only sacrifice that is sufficient to offer and, indeed, that can be, as the only such that even have left to. It's all we can offer that wouldn't be a blasphemous (I can't think of an adequate word...insult?) to Christ's offering, and especially now that we have no legitimate excuse that He would not nor has offered it.
When God was asking Job, where were you when... He was affectively informing Job that, if no one else was there, He was there... in answer to Job's complaint that many of us have entertained at least once in our life, "God, where were you when...?" God was there, in Job's suffering, and Job realized that Satan would have used all of his power to destroy Job if it were not for God's hedge around the life of Job in saying, "you may not..."
So, imo, Job's indictment is that he stumbled in faith, which is arguable the most dangerous sin in which there is no atonement for, rather than the 'run of the mill' commandments which all have been atoned for at any rate. And, at the root of unbelief is fear, in Job's case, that God had abandoned him, and his relief comes from the realization that 'I shall never leave you nor forsake you.' And that is the spirit of what Job had spoken rightly, that which is of God's true character.
Where does it say that Job's sin was unbelief? Did you notice that Job is the only one in this whole story actively seeking God? Persistently praying to God? Reaching outside of himself repeatedly to connect with God? How can you accuse Job of unbelief? How are you defining unbelief exactly? Job did not understand. He was groping in the dark for answers trying to figure out what was happening. But how are you concluding he is guilty of unbelief?
-
1
- Show all
The Book is a study of HOW FAR God will go to "reach" a person, so that the person can REPENT of their sin. God uses satan as his "surgical instrument" to bring Job to repentance about TWO ISSUES that needed attention. Leviathan (Job's personal Pride), and Behemoth (Job's self-reliance in his OWN power).
OK but just because Job was speaking of things he did not fully understand does not mean what he said was wrong, does it? It was just beyond him. That is why his words can be viewed as prophetic. God fully knew what Job meant - and that is why God says Job has spoken rightly of Him (God). Job did not have to fully know what he was saying in order for what he was saying to be correct. That is part of what makes this story so amazing.
Paul explains something like this as well in 1 Corinthians 13:9-12 where he says, "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away...For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." Sounds a lot like what happens with Job.
Paul explains something like this as well in 1 Corinthians 13:9-12 where he says, "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away...For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." Sounds a lot like what happens with Job.