The book of Job, my favorite book.

[tttallison]

I think you missed understanding that post-New Testament Israel includes Edom & Gentiles per the following examples:

There is no disagreement that Christ died for the whole world, nor is God a respecter of persons. The book is written to, of, and by the Jews.

Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rom 9:3-4 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Rom 3:1-2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[GWH]

There is no disagreement that Christ died for the whole world, nor is God a respecter of persons. The book is written to, of, and by the Jews.

Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rom 9:3-4 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Rom 3:1-2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

If the "book" refers to the New Testament, what matters is not whether it was written by physical Jews but by spiritual Jews. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Sacrificial Covenant (as indicated by MT, but He reformed, updated and superseded it with the New Gospel for all, which verses teaching that truth I posted you omitted! Again they included MT 7:21, MT 8:11, MT 10:32, MT 13:14-15, MT 21:43, MT 28:18-19a, JN 6:40 and JN 10:16: I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Similarly you omitted Paul's statements in Romans, which show that he was lamenting the truth that anti-Christian Jews are not saved. Again, these include:

RM 2:1-11, 23-29: God will give to each person according to what he has done… There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil, first for the Jew, then for the Gentile, but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good, first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.
RM 2:23-29: You (Jews) who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? As it is written, “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”… A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart.
RM 3:1-9: What advantage then is there in being a Jew?… First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God… What shall we conclude then? Are we (Jews) any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.
RM 3:20-30: Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his (God’s) sight by observing the law; rather through the law we become conscious of sin… Where then is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

 

[tttallison]

If the "book" refers to the New Testament, what matters is not whether it was written by physical Jews but by spiritual Jews. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Sacrificial Covenant (as indicated by MT, but He reformed, updated and superseded it with the New Gospel for all, which verses teaching that truth I posted you omitted! MT 28:18-19a, /QUOTE]

I am sorry I offended you by omitting your verses.

I know and love these verses. But from my perspective they are not relevant to our discussion. In some cases our interpretation is different.

How would you say the Apostles understood Matthew 28:19?

 

[tttallison]

Would you have liked this man if you lived in his town? Yes, God said Job was blameless and upright, but that was only until iniquity was found in him.

Psa 36:2 For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful.

Job 29:7-11 When I went out to the gate through the city, when I prepared my seat in the street! The young men saw me, and hid themselves: and the aged arose, and stood up. The princes refrained talking, and laid their hand on their mouth. The nobles held their peace, and their tongue cleaved to the roof of their mouth. When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

Job 29:20 My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.

 

[GWH]

There is no disagreement that Christ died for the whole world, nor is God a respecter of persons. The book is written to, of, and by the Jews.

Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Rom 9:3-4 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Rom 3:1-2 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

If the "book" refers to the New Testament, what matters is not whether it was written by physical Jews but by spiritual Jews. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Sacrificial Covenant (as indicated by MT 10:5-6 & 15:24), but He reformed, updated and superseded it with the New Gospel for all .
For some reason I could not reply to the post that contained this:

I am sorry I offended you by omitting your verses.

I know and love these verses. But from my perspective they are not relevant to our discussion. In some cases our interpretation is different.

How would you say the Apostles understood Matthew 28:19?

Apology accepted although the offense was against part of the truth that is necessary to have in order to have the whole truth or best interpretation. I cannot tell from your reply that you understand the truth/interpretation I am trying to convey as being most relevant, which is that per the New Testament "Israel" and the Gentiles are equally included in the same covenant or requirement for salvation--which is how I think the Apostles understood MT 28:19-20, at least after being taught by the apostle Paul.

 

[tttallison]

If the "book" refers to the New Testament, what matters is not whether it was written by physical Jews but by spiritual Jews. Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Sacrificial Covenant (as indicated by MT 10:5-6 & 15:24), but He reformed, updated and superseded it with the New Gospel for all .

Apology accepted although the offense was against part of the truth that is necessary to have in order to have the whole truth or best interpretation. I cannot tell from your reply that you understand the truth/interpretation I am trying to convey as being most relevant, which is that per the New Testament "Israel" and the Gentiles are equally included in the same covenant or requirement for salvation--which is how I think the Apostles understood MT 28:19-20, at least after being taught by the apostle Paul.

The age of the law is over and we now are in the age of the gentiles. The Jewish nation has been set aside.

Rom 11:25-29 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The new covenant with the house of Israel (Northern Kingdom) and the house of Jacob (Southern Kingdom). (Hebrews 8:8) Northern Kingdom has not existed since 720 BC.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:10:13 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The old Covenant

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

The New Covenant is future, for a future age.

If we were in the New Covenant there would be no need of teachers and preachers. The New Covenant was to the Jews, both the Northern and Southern Kingdom.

 

[Mem]

The age of the law is over and we now are in the age of the gentiles. The Jewish nation has been set aside.

Rom 11:25-29 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

The new covenant with the house of Israel (Northern Kingdom) and the house of Jacob (Southern Kingdom). (Hebrews 8:8) Northern Kingdom has not existed since 720 BC.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:10:13 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The old Covenant

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

The New Covenant is future, for a future age.

If we were in the New Covenant there would be no need of teachers and preachers. The New Covenant was to the Jews, both the Northern and Southern Kingdom.

I think it is worthy of note that Israel is partially blinded, as opposed to the world's complete blindness. Many take this to mean that some (a part) of them believe and others do not see, but there is a possibility this is speaking in the collective term that, in general, they only recognize the Old Testament, while the general world rejects completely along with the NT.

 

[tttallison]

I think it is worthy of note that Israel is partially blinded, as opposed to the world's complete blindness. Many take this to mean that some (a part) of them believe and others do not see, but there is a possibility this is speaking in the collective term that, in general, they only recognize the Old Testament, while the general world rejects completely along with the NT.

Actually, there was a study done that said 60% of Jews did not believe there was a God. That is far above the rest of the world.

 

[tttallison]

Got off target with Job.

The book of Job is about righteousness. God's righteousness versus man's righteousness. It should be apparent to everyone that Job had a zeal for God. It is also apparent that Job lacked knowledge. God said Job lacked knowledge.

When we compare what God said about Israel it is apparent that it also equates to Job.

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[Mem]

Actually, there was a study done that said 60% of Jews did not believe there was a God. That is far above the rest of the world.

What is your perspective of Romans 11:26, "...The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob."?