The Catholics and my conclusion
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I didn't read anything past that. I learned of Jesus when I was four years old and you have the conceited gall to state I'm not aware of His sacrifice? Now I know full well you're not worth my time.
The Holy Spirit dwells within the hearts of believers. And where two or more are gathered in Jesus' name, He is there among them. Don't need Communion for that.
Matthew 4:10 (NKJV)
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "
Latria,dulia, hyperduli are words made up by the Catholic Church to justify their Worship of Mary. They words were created to deceive you Catholics into believing there is nothing wrong with Worshiping Mary.
Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
Smooth words, Latria,dulia, hyperduli. These words are used to deceive the hearts of the simple people.
God clearly says we are to Worship God only! Praying the Hail Mary prayer, Praying the Rosary, having a statue of Mary, bowing down to a statue of Mary IS Worshiping Mary AS YOUR God!
You can try to deceive the others fordman but you DO Worship Mary AS YOUR God!
10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.' "
Latria,dulia, hyperduli are words made up by the Catholic Church to justify their Worship of Mary. They words were created to deceive you Catholics into believing there is nothing wrong with Worshiping Mary.
Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.
18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
Smooth words, Latria,dulia, hyperduli. These words are used to deceive the hearts of the simple people.
God clearly says we are to Worship God only! Praying the Hail Mary prayer, Praying the Rosary, having a statue of Mary, bowing down to a statue of Mary IS Worshiping Mary AS YOUR God!
You can try to deceive the others fordman but you DO Worship Mary AS YOUR God!
Its interesting that the Doctrine of Mary being born without sin did not appear until 1854.
So how can you Catholics claim this doctrine was back in the 1st century?
As far as the Eucharist goes it does not matter what you believe about the Eucharist because Salvation is not received by believing in the Doctrines of the Catholic Church.
Contrast between God and Catholicism.
1. Salvation:
God: The instantaneous reception of an eternally irrevocable right standing before God, secured at the point of Faith entirely by Grace. Salvation is freely given to the unrighteous.
Catholicism: The lifelong process whereby God AND mankind cooperate in the securing of forgiveness of sin. This is achieved only after death and is dependent on man's personal securing of objective righteousness before God in this life.
2. Justification:
God: The legal declaration that Christ's righteousness is reckoned, or imputed, to the believer at the point of Faith solely as an act of God's mercy.
Catholicism: Spiritual rebirth and the lifelong process of sanctification, which begins at the point of the sacrament of Baptism.
Do you see fordman how the Catholic Faith is the opposite of what God says? How can you ever know IF you have done enough to secure righteousness before God to receive Salvation after you die fordman?
You cannot know! There is no way to know IF you have done enough to secure your Salvation fordman. You can try all you want to receive salvation by your "Good Works" fordman, but in the end its you who will not have Salvation at all.
So how can you Catholics claim this doctrine was back in the 1st century?
As far as the Eucharist goes it does not matter what you believe about the Eucharist because Salvation is not received by believing in the Doctrines of the Catholic Church.
Contrast between God and Catholicism.
1. Salvation:
God: The instantaneous reception of an eternally irrevocable right standing before God, secured at the point of Faith entirely by Grace. Salvation is freely given to the unrighteous.
Catholicism: The lifelong process whereby God AND mankind cooperate in the securing of forgiveness of sin. This is achieved only after death and is dependent on man's personal securing of objective righteousness before God in this life.
2. Justification:
God: The legal declaration that Christ's righteousness is reckoned, or imputed, to the believer at the point of Faith solely as an act of God's mercy.
Catholicism: Spiritual rebirth and the lifelong process of sanctification, which begins at the point of the sacrament of Baptism.
Do you see fordman how the Catholic Faith is the opposite of what God says? How can you ever know IF you have done enough to secure righteousness before God to receive Salvation after you die fordman?
You cannot know! There is no way to know IF you have done enough to secure your Salvation fordman. You can try all you want to receive salvation by your "Good Works" fordman, but in the end its you who will not have Salvation at all.
Oh..... I think you had.
No.. the point I was making was your mis-conceptions of Catholicism, and in this case why we Catholics prominently display crucifixes in our churches and on our persons. With Scripture no less! One other thing that has me thinking. You say that you didn't read anything past my "not sure about that" comment, right? If that is the case, how do you come to the conclusion that I have the "conceited gall" to state you're not aware of Christ's Sacrifice? Hmmmmm......
Yeah right..... what else could you say. {rolling eyes}
Pax Christi
Romans 3:23 DIRECTLY refutes that Mary is sinless. "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" .. says the Bible.
It is not what the evidences on Catholics beliefs about Mary that is being demanded on you but rather the very evidences in the Scripture which say we should only worship and glorify God, who is a jealous God, and that there is only one mediator between man and God and that is Jesus.
Even the Vatican believes it is NOT in the Scripture that Mary is sinless. The Catholic believes Sacred Tradition indicates Mary is sinless. And tradition is Fallible. Remember, the earth is flat.
As I said, tradition is fallible. In Protestant belief, preachers and founding fathers of the faith, committed mistakes and sinned.
They are not exception. But they are covered by another verses in the Scripture like Matthew 19:3-14. There is no verse in the Scripture that covers Mary to be sinless and Vatican agrees with this.
Immaculate means "clean" or "spotless".. LOL.. Wasn't nothing immaculate (clean) about Jesus' birth. Since when is blood, placenta and after-birth immaculate?
lol If anything, Jesus' birth was divine, but certainly not clean or spotless. He was born in a barn!! Y'all ever see how dirty barns are? lol
Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, " THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
This verse does refute the Doctrine that Mary was born without sin. If no one is Righteous, if none are Righteous then Mary never was Righteous.
Its not what God says in the Scriptures that the Catholics accept. Its what Catholicism says that the Catholics live by. Catholicism says Mary was born without sin, God says there are none Righteous, not even one.
The difference is very clear as day and night. There are no grey areas in the verse where God says none are Righteous not even one.
Its not that the Catholics cannot understand what this verse says. The problem is the Catholics want their ears tickled by Catholicism. Its not the Truth they are after, its their PRIDE in believing they are greater than God and do not need His Truths.
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
All does apply to everybody fordman. What you are trying to do is muddy the waters by suggesting that all does not mean everyone who has been born. Why? Because you are trying desperately to justify your Worship of Mary fordman.
God does say all fordman and I know this pisses you off because of your hatred for the Truth from God.
You need to realize and understand fordman that where you are today you have not received Salvation and will never Inherit the Kingdom of God. Worshiping Mary is Idolatry that will put you in the Lake of Fire, not Heaven.
Is your Pride of being a Catholic that great that you are willing to risk your Eternal Soul and end up in the Lake of Fire forever?
How can you ever expect to enter into Heaven with me fordman if you keep on Worshiping Mary as your god?
Scriptures are very clear fordman in what God says that Mary was born a sinner and died a sinner. God is very clear fordman that you are Worshiping Mary every time you say the Hail Mary and every time you pray the Rosary.
Reject Mary fordman. Repent. Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and enter into Heaven with me.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, " THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
This verse does refute the Doctrine that Mary was born without sin. If no one is Righteous, if none are Righteous then Mary never was Righteous.
Its not what God says in the Scriptures that the Catholics accept. Its what Catholicism says that the Catholics live by. Catholicism says Mary was born without sin, God says there are none Righteous, not even one.
The difference is very clear as day and night. There are no grey areas in the verse where God says none are Righteous not even one.
Its not that the Catholics cannot understand what this verse says. The problem is the Catholics want their ears tickled by Catholicism. Its not the Truth they are after, its their PRIDE in believing they are greater than God and do not need His Truths.
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
All does apply to everybody fordman. What you are trying to do is muddy the waters by suggesting that all does not mean everyone who has been born. Why? Because you are trying desperately to justify your Worship of Mary fordman.
God does say all fordman and I know this pisses you off because of your hatred for the Truth from God.
You need to realize and understand fordman that where you are today you have not received Salvation and will never Inherit the Kingdom of God. Worshiping Mary is Idolatry that will put you in the Lake of Fire, not Heaven.
Is your Pride of being a Catholic that great that you are willing to risk your Eternal Soul and end up in the Lake of Fire forever?
How can you ever expect to enter into Heaven with me fordman if you keep on Worshiping Mary as your god?
Scriptures are very clear fordman in what God says that Mary was born a sinner and died a sinner. God is very clear fordman that you are Worshiping Mary every time you say the Hail Mary and every time you pray the Rosary.
Reject Mary fordman. Repent. Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and enter into Heaven with me.
Oh..... I think you had.
No.. the point I was making was your mis-conceptions of Catholicism, and in this case why we Catholics prominently display crucifixes in our churches and on our persons. With Scripture no less! One other thing that has me thinking. You say that you didn't read anything past my "not sure about that" comment, right? If that is the case, how do you come to the conclusion that I have the "conceited gall" to state you're not aware of Christ's Sacrifice? Hmmmmm......
Yeah right..... what else could you say. {rolling eyes}
Pax Christi
you really need to get those eyes fixed lol
How does a figure still on the cross reveal Christ the having been crucified One? Rather it suggests He still is crucified.
But in many Roman Catholic churches around the world Jesus' resurrection is mainly ignored.
No, it is through the resurrection. If Christ had not risen the cross would have been in vain. You see how your emphasis is constantly in the wrong place? Yes His work on the cross was mighty, but it obtained its power from the resurrection.
I suspect that is your church that needs to learn those lessons not us. But we are pleased you can see a glimpse of the truth through your studies here.
Yes.
You wouldn't. you are still half in the grave
So that they would know Who He was.
He did, but as a past event. His passionate love and unconditional endless love was only possible through the resurrection.
No I would say 'thank you risen LORD for what you DID in the past for us.'
As a proclamation to the world that Christ is risen. We do not need tokens for ourselves
Yes a dead message from a dead church.
Note my emboldening. It is much more than that. It is that because He lives we may live also.
Yes the WORD of the cross which refers back to the past. It is the WORD of the cross which is the power of God.
You would be. your church is still concerned to make people forget that Christ is risen so that they will depend on the church and its rituals. You want them absorbed with His death. Then to look to the church for its consequences.
But sadly we see the consequences of it in your church's dead ritual
No my friend. Keep your eyes on the risen Christ.
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isn't that kind of...stupid?
1 Cor. 1:23- Paul preaches a Christ crucified, not just risen. Did Paul make a mistake? Jesus died once, but the merits of the cross are eternal, and go in both directions in time.
You have been in many Catholic churches around the world and polled sufficient number of Mass attendees and came to this conclusion?, or is this an empty assertion? How many times have you been to a Catholic Mass, and how long ago was it?
John 7:39 - Jesus was first glorified on the cross, not just the resurrection. This text refers to John 19:34, when Jesus was pierced on the cross by the soldier's lance.
By "we", do you mean everybody that agrees with you? It looks to me that there are not many people in here that agree on very much.
"“The glory of God is man fully alive.” It's a famous line from Saint Irenaeus. Perhaps you have heard of him.
Jesus showed his wounds so the Apostles would know who He was, but not ok to show a crucifix for us to know what He did. Is that what you mean?
1 Cor. 1:23- Paul preaches a Christ crucified, not just risen. Catholic spirituality focuses on the sacrifice of Christ which is the only means to the resurrection. This is why Catholic churches have crucifixes with the corpus of Jesus affixed to them. Many Protestant churches no longer display the corpus of Jesus (only an empty cross). Thus, they only preach a Christ risen, not crucified, which is what you are doing.
1 Cor. 2:2 - Paul preaches Jesus Christ and Him crucified. While the cross was the scandal of scandals, and is viewed by the non-Christian eye as defeat, Catholic spirituality has always exalted the paradox of the cross as the true tree of life and our means to salvation.
No, you don't need art either.
Fordham hasn't said one rude word to you, and you reply with a headless chicken remark.
That is not contested. What is contested is dividing the Crucifixion from the Resurrection. Then you can default a division between the Passover and the Crucifixion, failing to make any connections.
"Word of the cross". Chapter and verse, please.
Your hate speech, born from blind prejudice, is unbecoming of a person claiming to be a Christian. Saying that Catholics forget the Resurrection because we have crucifixes is arrogant blind prejudice. Making up lies about the Catholic faith is the prot cult identity, typical of "churches" founded less than 30 years ago.
What ritual would that be? Name one and we can discuss it. Throwing flaming zingers around is not discussion.
You insult him, make up lies about his faith, and then you call him "my friend".
No actually it isn't. Its very revealing.
Soooo? It still means that He is the 'having been crucified One' not the One Who is now dead on the cross. No one doubts the eternal effectiveness of what Christ accomplished through His cross and resurrection. But it gains its merit from the fact that He rose and is dead no longer.
I personally know those who have. And they had a very intimate knowledge of the deadness of the faith of thousands who knew of Christ dead on the cross and had little concept of the resurrection. Their trust was in the RC church and its priesthood, not in the risen Christ.
What odd ideas you have to be sure. The Spirit was given because Jesus rose and was glorified, not because He died on the cross. See where your faith leads you?
We agree on the essentials.
Try not to be so sarcastic. I majored on church history before 500 AD. But its a rather trite saying. But then the fathers were god at trite sayings. However it contradicts you previous assertion. God is glorified by life not death.
Yes that's what I mean. He showed His wounds to prove Who He was and that He was RISEN. That doesn't mean that we should morbidly look at those wounds on a dead statue. Rather we should see the empty cross. You live in death, we live in life.
Yes a 'having been crucified One'. His emphasis was on the fact that His death was in the past and that He was now the risen One. What good was His death unless He rose? His death was of vital importance, but it was as a once-for-all act by the risen One.
You mean Roman Catholics spend too much time looking at Him as dead? They want their followers to look to the church for life. Something they do in vain. In fact we enjoy resurrection BECAUSE HE ROSE, and we do it by being united with Him by faith. Not by some hocus pocus conducted at Mass.
Because they are obsessed with Him as dead rather than alive. They want to turn their followers to the Roman church, not to the risen LORD.
LOL and you talk about stupidity. That is such a stupid statement that I wonder for your sanity.
Tell me how can a CROSS teach an uncrucified Christ? That suggestion is the height of stupidity. An empty cross portrays a Christ risen, having first been crucified
In your dreams LOL You clearly know nothing of the history of your own church, or of the reality of it around the world. The RC treatment of the cross is certainly the scandal of scandals. I will not deny that. They misuse it shamefully. But it is only in enlightened countries that they have any real understanding of it. You are defending the indefensible.
LOL I suggest you read other threads. He is insolent. We are old adversaries. But a headless chicken is a good representation of him. At least we agree on that
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No actually we don't. It is not a Christian tool although can be used in the right hands. Only too often it is not in the right hands.
Your stupidity seems to increase as you go along. No one 'divided the crucifixion from the resurrection'. But we would be a poor lot of people if we depended on symbols for that. Symbols mean what people gather from them which is why they can be so dangerous.
As for separating the Lord's Supper from the cross I have to ask whether you are really capable of intelligent thought? How can you separate a feast which celebrates Christ's death and resurrection and coming again from the cross? But what we do not do is invent morbid fairy tales about cannibalism.
1 Co 1.18. Try the Greek.
LOL Hate speech = someone who shows you up to bee wrong. It is a Christian's responsibility to point out where heretics go astray. It would be unbecoming of me not to do so.
No it is fact in many parts of the world
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well my church was founded whilst Christ was still alive
Yours was founded when you seceded from the Catholic church in 8th century AD to form the divisive and secessionist Roman Catholic church.Most of them LOL
Grow up.
Every Catholic Church around the World DOES have Statues of Mary for Catholics to Worship.
Every Catholic household does have a statue of Mary in their house to Worship.
We need to focus on the fact that Catholics do Worship Mary as their God. This will keep every Catholic from entering into Heaven.
Until the Catholics reject Mary they will never be able to see the Truth that others are trying to bring to them.
Every Catholic household does have a statue of Mary in their house to Worship.
We need to focus on the fact that Catholics do Worship Mary as their God. This will keep every Catholic from entering into Heaven.
Until the Catholics reject Mary they will never be able to see the Truth that others are trying to bring to them.
When did I say that love is ripped from faith? Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6). 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. A child of God practices righteousness and loves his brother. That is descriptive of a child of God. A child of the devil does not practice righteousness and does not love his brother. That is descriptive of a child of the devil. As I already said, Paul describes the character of faith, which is faith working through love and faith works through love BECAUSE we are saved and have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5).
What was taken out of context? It seems like every time your false teachings are refuted, you make accusations of dishonesty or Catholicism has been misrepresented or you simply attack the character and credibility of the person refuting your false doctrine.
Any value for what? Increasing justification and helping you merit eternal life? So what you are basically saying is that as long as these works are produced from the grace of Christ, they contribute to saving us but if they are not, they don't? Keep in mind that we have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) and not by faith and works. *Works salvationists have not received access into grace. Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.. Apart from the grace of Christ, works are not genuine good works produced out of genuine faith.
The fact that Catholics are taught to perform good works to maintain and increase personal righteousness by which they are ultimately accounted to have fully satisfied the Law of God and allowed into heaven (Trent, session 6, chapter 16 and canon 24) is not a big fat lie. The fact that Catholicism teaches salvation is through faith AND WORKS is not a big fat lie, as you have already demonstrated. It's your drum that is hollow and your cymbal that is just noise AND your gospel that is perverted and cannot save.
The Council of Trent does not properly understand many things. Most critical of all, they do not understand justification. Love is not separated from the character of faith, as I already explained to you in Galatians 5:6 and 1 John 3:10. "I have faith and I'm a child of God, but I hate my brother is an oxymoron."
The drum keeps pounding because you have your own flavor of works righteousness that you try and sugar coat with grace but genuine believers can see through your disguise. You are not fooling us. Catholicism teaches salvation BY WORKS. Plain and simple.
Good works are the fruit of having a right relationship with God. Setting out to be pure, merciful and a peacemaker "apart from faith" does not give you a right relationship with God. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: This is where our relationship with God begins. Good works FOLLOW.
Good works do give glory to God but they do not increase our justification before the Father. We are justified "accounted as righteous" by faith in Christ (Romans 5:1) and we are justified (in a different sense) "shown to be righteous" by good works (James 2:24). Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Either we have been justified by faith or else we have not. Justification does not increase and decrease because it's based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption and not on the merits of our works. When will you figure that out?
Good works demonstrate that our faith is genuine, but we are NOT saved by works, but through faith in Christ and FOR good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). What a genuine believer means by salvation through faith IN CHRIST ALONE (saved through faith, not works) and what James means by "faith alone" (empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - barren of works) is not the same message. Don't let the word "alone" fool you.
LOL what has happened to your RC doctrine of original sin and guilt? Are you overlooking it?
But yes all mankind comes short of the glory of God.
And good works are what we are saved FOR (Ephesians 2:10) NOT by. That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for Roman Catholics to ACCEPT. It is tragic that human pride will not allow so many Roman Catholics to come to Christ. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith.
Some former Roman Catholics though (like myself) came to Christ IN SPITE of what Catholicism teaches and NOT BECAUSE of what it teaches. A forgiving heart is the character of faith. So now you are saying that the forgiveness of sins are not received by faith (Acts 26:18) but through forgiving others? Continued unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness would be the mark of a genuine believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness could refuse to grant forgiveness to others.
We saw how those so-called good works worked out in NOT receiving eternal life for these many people in Matthew 7:22. The problem was these many people were "trusting in their works to save them" and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Sound familiar? *Notice in Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. *Notice in John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. *Notice in Matthew 7:23 that Jesus said to these many people - depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. The opposite of practicing righteousness (1 John 3:10) which demonstrates they are children of the devil, not children of God.
So what you are saying is that faith in Christ is not enough to save us because the object of our faith (Christ's finished work of redemption) is IN-sufficient to save us and that we must "add" our good works to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Him save us? Through your misinterpretation of Scripture, this is what you are implying, even though you may not even realize it.
Again, we are saved FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10) NOT by good works.
Good works justify us in the sense of "shown to be righteous" not accounted as righteous (James 2:21; Romans 4:2-3). This continues to be a major stumbling block for you and a critical one!
Here you go again with faith in Christ is not enough to save us which implies that Christ's finished work of redemption (the object of our faith) is IN-sufficient to save us, so you keep turning to supplements. Believers do not keep His commandments in order to become saved, but BECAUSE we are saved. 1 John 2:3 - Now by this we know that we know Him, (already know Him/are already saved/demonstrative evidence) - if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. By the way the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" Strongs #5083 and means to keep, to guard, to watch over, preserve. It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of Christ's commandments 100% of the time. You demonstrate time and time again that your faith is IN YOUR WORKS for salvation and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE.
Again, we are saved FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10) NOT by good works and we are justified "shown to be righteous" by good works, but NOT justified "accounted as righteous" by good works, but by faith.
Descriptive of children of God. You seem to confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture. Those who teach salvation by works often do.
John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. You need to be more concerned with how we have access into grace (access by faith into grace, not works - Romans 5:1) than falling from grace.
Either we are united with Him or else we are not.
Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Genuine belief is enough (John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16). Those who are truly His disciples, continue in His word. John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not born again. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." See John 2:23-25 (where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature); John 8:31,40,45-46 (where the Jews who were said to have "believed him" turn out to be slaves to sin [v. 34], indifferent to Jesus’ word [v. 37], children of the devil [v. 44], liars [v. 55], attempted to stone the one they have professed to believe (v. 59). After Jesus’ teaching we read in 6:60 that many of his disciples . . . said, ‘This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?’ These are the very "so called" disciples who Jesus says do not believe (vs. 64) and Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe and who would betray Him.
Children of God love one another BECAUSE we are saved, not to become saved.
We are saved through faith, not works and are created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, so this living faith TRUSTS IN CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION but DOES NOT REMAIN ALONE in the sense that it is barren of works. You cannot to grasp the difference because of your UNBELIEF.
This is DESCRIPTIVE of children of God and we are saved FOR good works, NOT by good works.
Believers do not bear the fruit of good works in order to become His disciples, but BECAUSE we are TRULY His disciples. Bearing the fruit of good works by the grace of God is what genuine disciples do, yet these good works do not merit eternal life. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption ALONE and NOT ON THE MERITS OF OUR WORKS. When will you finally figure this out?
DESCRIPTIVE of those who are born of God.
Love is not the cause of our justification, but it is the fruit. Faith is the CAUSE of our justification (Romans 5:1) and love/good works are the EFFECT. The "whole picture" rests on cause and effect. Do we do acts of love/good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a free offer that is received through faith which then consequently leads TO love/good works? Which is cause and which is effect? You seem to have this mixed up.
I know what love is and actions speak louder than words.
Keep reading verses 11-15. Receiving rewards (not salvation) based on works.
Paul is using hyperbole to make a strong point about the importance of love. Now don't you go ripping love from faith here (your words earlier).
Paul is not saying that love justifies us here. We are justified by faith Romans 5:1. Faith in Christ is not insufficient to save us Ephesians 2:8,9. Paul did not say that we are saved by grace through faith AND LOVE in Ephesians 2:8,9 or that we are justified by faith AND LOVE in Romans 5:1. Paul is simply stating the importance of love and that love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his redeemed people are and do. We won't need faith and hope in heaven. Genuine faith is not alone in the sense that it is barren of love, barren of good works etc.. The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith in "Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone," not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "IN CHRIST ALONE" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.* When will you finally accept the truth, receive Christ through faith and quit seeking salvation by works?
Good works lay up a foundation for a CHANCE at eternal life? Where does it say that in 1 Timothy 6:18-19? I almost fell out of my chair when I read that!
You have the wrong foundation - 1 Corinthians 3:11. Of course, Catholicism offers no assurance of salvation, yet God's Word tells us otherwise. 1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Catholicism prefers to keep Roman Catholics in bondage to the sin of presumption. Those who don't truly believe have no assurance and can only cross their fingers in hopes that their works measure up, which is the whole deception! It's no surprise that John 3:16 in the NAB (Catholic Bible) reads as such - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. There is no might about it. Shall not perish (NAS Bible). John 3:18 - He who believes in Him IS NOT condemned. Notice that John DID NOT SAY "might not" be condemned. Yes, our works testify to our faith. We show our faith by our works (James 2:18) but works do not establish our faith. Faith is established the moment that we trust in Christ alone for salvation. Then the good works FOLLOW (Ephesians 2:5-10).
Keeping His commandments is the DEMONSTRATIVE EVIDENCE that we know Him and not the means of our salvation. It requires faith IN CHRIST ALONE for salvation (which means we are trusting in Him ALONE to save us, not in Him + works) in order to be made alive in Christ and created in Christ Jesus THEN UNTO/FOR good works (Ephesians 2:5-10). You have this backwards. You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse.
Belief is enough to save us because the OBJECT of our belief (Christ's finished work of redemption) is ENOUGH/SUFFICIENT to save us. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned.. Believes plus what? Simply BELIEVES IN HIM. We don't truly love one another with agape love (effect, fruit of salvation) until we first believe in Him and receive Christ (cause of salvation).
We are to love one another BECAUSE we are saved, NOT to become saved. I already showed you in 1 John 3:10 who does not love his brother - children of the devil. We see more descriptive language of children of the devil in 1 John 4:8, we read - He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. Also in 1 John 4:20 - If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
Loving God and keeping His commandments is the DEMONSTRATIVE EVIDENCE that we are God's children and is not a prerequisite to become God's children. We are children of God by faith in Christ. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: Loving God and keeping His commandments FOLLOWS. We are saved through faith (belief, trust, reliance) IN CHRIST ALONE for salvation which means the moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation, WE ARE SAVED. Praise God!
Good works FOLLOW as the fruit of salvation and we are saved FOR good works, not by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Are you ready to repent and place your faith in Christ alone for salvation? I read through this nonsense which once again proves that Catholicism teaches "salvation by works" no matter how much you try and sugar coat it. Faith does not merely "initially" justify us. Show me the word "initially" in Romans 5:1 and in Acts 13:39. It's not there. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is NOT BY WORKS. Works simply bear out the justification that comes by faith. We are "accounted as righteous" (justified, legal sense) based on our faith (Romans 4:2-6) and justified in a different sense "shown to be righteous" by works (James 2:14-24). You cannot dissect good works from the moral aspect of the law (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; James 2:15-16; Matthew 22:37-40) so your not saved by works of the law but saved by good works argument is a deception that is keeping Roman Catholics in bondage to WORKS SALVATION, which is NO SALVATION AT ALL! Paul NOWHERE says that we are justified by faith AND WORKS or that we are saved through faith AND WORKS. Catholicism confuses ongoing sanctification with justification and has replaced IMPUTED righteousness (Romans 4:6) with "infused" righteousness and the word "infused" is nowhere found in the Bible. What a mess! Catholicism is a satanic deceptive nightmare! Thank God I escaped from that nightmare and found freedom in Christ! Praise God!!!