Me too. I guess some people can't imagine being responsible without rules to govern the wild things they might desire to do.
The Church in Acts did not meet on the first day of the week...
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Me too. I guess some people can't imagine being responsible without rules to govern the wild things they might desire to do.
do you imagine there will be sinners in heaven who need to be kept in check by a strict angel-police force?
why would children who love their Father and have grown up need laws?
would they disrespect His house?
what does the scripture say the laws was for, mike?
what does Paul compare the law to?
i think it's like this, Willie:
have you ever had a friend who has spent a long time in prison? and who is released? or maybe even someone who has just gotten out of the military?
have you ever seen how they need to have "rules" and people telling them what to do, and threatening them with punishment, or else they simply don't know how to act.
some of them freak out because of these feelings, and actually look for a way to get back into prison, or they re-enlist, even though if you had asked them while they were on the inside, or while they were enlisted, they would have quickly told you they desired freedom. i've seen this happen to people who were incarcerated, and to people who were enlisted -- not everyone, for sure, but some. some kind of personality quirk, i guess . . ?
but people can get so used to slavery that they don't know what to do without it. of course i have never known an actual slave, but i imagine this was the situation for a lot of people after they were emancipated, too. they had lived their whole lives in bondage -- and suddenly free, wow, what a shock! some, i'm sure, sought the *comfort* of slavery and bondage again.
freedom can be frightening.
so i think, we also have believers -- who have lived their whole lives in bondage to the law of sin and death. their flesh comprehends this, and desires again to be mastered. they have trouble comprehending their freedom, and turn back to the law, thinking it is right -- it actually appeals to the flesh, in an ironic way, to take away the *burden* of freedom, and be made a slave again.
some believers, i think, are so recently removed from such bondage, that they simply experience a system shock, and can't think clearly about what has happened to them. it's frightening to them, and they do not trust themselves ((rightly so)) but they also do not trust that the Lord who works in them will work and accomplish His purpose - even though it is not by law any longer.
you're an elder man, with the wisdom and understanding of many years, dude - whether you like it or not, we see that blessing in you
((i hope you like it, & stay humble too)) - does this make sense to you, brother? 
Boneyman said:
have you ever had a friend who has spent a long time in prison? and who is released? or maybe even someone who has just gotten out of the military?
have you ever seen how they need to have "rules" and people telling them what to do, and threatening them with punishment, or else they simply don't know how to act.
some of them freak out because of these feelings, and actually look for a way to get back into prison, or they re-enlist, even though if you had asked them while they were on the inside, or while they were enlisted, they would have quickly told you they desired freedom. i've seen this happen to people who were incarcerated, and to people who were enlisted -- not everyone, for sure, but some. some kind of personality quirk, i guess . . ?
The term is "becoming Institutionalized." Not a quirk of a persons personality, rather a systematic indoctrination that actually becomes "the accepted norm" of how one lives their life. It becomes a "safe haven" for them, and when they are apart from it, it can be so very frightening, as if they have lost all aspects of the accepted "normality" they were accustomed to.
have you ever had a friend who has spent a long time in prison? and who is released? or maybe even someone who has just gotten out of the military?
have you ever seen how they need to have "rules" and people telling them what to do, and threatening them with punishment, or else they simply don't know how to act.
some of them freak out because of these feelings, and actually look for a way to get back into prison, or they re-enlist, even though if you had asked them while they were on the inside, or while they were enlisted, they would have quickly told you they desired freedom. i've seen this happen to people who were incarcerated, and to people who were enlisted -- not everyone, for sure, but some. some kind of personality quirk, i guess . . ?
The term is "becoming Institutionalized." Not a quirk of a persons personality, rather a systematic indoctrination that actually becomes "the accepted norm" of how one lives their life. It becomes a "safe haven" for them, and when they are apart from it, it can be so very frightening, as if they have lost all aspects of the accepted "normality" they were accustomed to.
what is the seventh day on one side of the Time Line? Move the time line and it changes. Now another day is the seventh. How then do I guard it? Strictly the seventh day requires to be determined at a single spot. It fits being a law for Israel (as the commandments were). It does not go well with the Time Line
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In Heaven, "rules" are unnecessary, for when He returns, we will be changed, in the twinkling of an eye, the "imperfect" who are in need of "rules" will put on the "perfect" who are not in need of rules.
That is what is different about Heaven.
Now, I fully understand what others are saying here, and I agree for the most part, but let everyone be clear, that I also fully believe that based on all of Scripture, that as long as we are here on earth, in this imperfect form of man, God does have "rules" or a "code of conduct" if you wish for all of His children to follow/obey/live by.
To say any different is to deny the Gospel of Christ in my humble opinion, Being "obedient" to the WILL OF GOD is the REQUIRED DUTY of ALL BELIEVERS.
That may make some of my friends here shout "LEGALIST!" That's ok with me, for Scripture tells all of us what I am saying is Biblical Truth.
That is what is different about Heaven.
Now, I fully understand what others are saying here, and I agree for the most part, but let everyone be clear, that I also fully believe that based on all of Scripture, that as long as we are here on earth, in this imperfect form of man, God does have "rules" or a "code of conduct" if you wish for all of His children to follow/obey/live by.
To say any different is to deny the Gospel of Christ in my humble opinion, Being "obedient" to the WILL OF GOD is the REQUIRED DUTY of ALL BELIEVERS.
That may make some of my friends here shout "LEGALIST!" That's ok with me, for Scripture tells all of us what I am saying is Biblical Truth.
The (American) church tried the super-grace theory for years. What are the results? Weak churches, 50% divorce rate, greed, homosexuality, drugs, adultery, theft, other things - all in the "church". It is no fun being the messenger, but for the most part, other than a couple hours on Sunday, you can't tell the (American) church from the non-church. So we don't want rules? How crazy is that?
what is the seventh day on one side of the Time Line? Move the time line and it changes. Now another day is the seventh. How then do I guard it? Strictly the seventh day requires to be determined at a single spot. It fits being a law for Israel (as the commandments were). It does not go well with the Time Line
counting to 7 has not changed. The calendar dates have changed several times, but not counting from 1 to 7. There has been a remnant in Israel observing the Sabbath since the Messiah walked the earth, and they have been counting to 7.
what % of 'church membership' in America do you imagine are actually believers ?
hazard a rough guess?
all?
more than 50%? less?
stats like this aren't a commentary on the people of God. they are a commentary on people who attend church services and people who are willing to check a "religious" box on surveys. it's a survey-design problem, IMHO ((and survey-design is math! hahaha hooray, something post is qualified to speak on))
amen dude.
"let it not once be named among you as becometh saints . ."
et al.
but there is a ditch on both sides of the road, and most single-vehicle accidents happen when the driver over-corrects, and so loses control.
grace is still grace - and impropriety is still impropriety. whatever in us that is not gold will be burned up and thrown away, and many will suffer loss.
there is certainly a way to teach & encourage righteousness without denying grace, and to proclaim grace without encouraging licentiousness: the road is narrow
Originally Posted by valiantwhat is the seventh day on one side of the Time Line? Move the time line and it changes. Now another day is the seventh. How then do I guard it? Strictly the seventh day requires to be determined at a single spot. It fits being a law for Israel (as the commandments were). It does not go well with the Time Line
But from WHERE do you start to count? You clearly do not understand the Time Line.
Doesn't mean they are saved. Religious but lost is their estate. Righteousness does not come by the law.
Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Well, don't let the pagan names confuse you, but 1-Sunday, 2-Monday, etc.. God only named one day.
Friday evening until Saturday evening is the Sabbath. This is what I am saying. The Messiah obeyed the Sabbath, and I am pretty sure He knew the correct timing. There has been a remnant doing it ever since. It is not prehistoric.
You are right. Observing the Sabbath does not prove they are "saved". I think it does at least show they have a fear of God.
it doesn't prove that either.
it could also demonstrate vanity, a misunderstanding of what Christ has done and who He is, and/or what the true rest of God really is.
Originally Posted by valiant
you still do not understand the Time line. The Time Line fixes when a day is in different parts of the world. When it is moved the days in different parts are changed. Thus the seventh day in one place may suddenly become the first day. The Messiah did not fix the Time Line. He used the timing in Israel. He did not fix the Sabbath in every part of the world.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
No God isn't. Which is why when we see a confused notion such as Law without a penalty attached to it, we can be sure it isn't of God.
And many have the fear of God and do not observe the Sabbath, they choose to fear God by observing another day as Paul suggested
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sundown is sundown. On sundown of the 6th day, begin the Sabbath, wherever you are.