The church, Paul agrees, Post Tribulation.
- Thread starter Medad
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And who are the "they"? Are they not the unbelieving and unrighteous who will weep and wail at His Second Coming? Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7) So do you see the saints weeping and wailing because Christ is coming for them? Or do you see the absurdity of connecting the Rapture with this?
No need to beg. You are hereby granted forgiveness!
Sure.
Jesus meets His Church, and those that had died in Him, in the air 1st.
They will be with Him (NOT on Earth) until 7 or possibly just the 3.5 yrs of Great Tribulation are finished.
So the antichrist will arrive FIRST on Earth before Jesus comes back to EARTH.
Sure.
Jesus meets His Church, and those that had died in Him, in the air 1st.
They will be with Him (NOT on Earth) until 7 or possibly just the 3.5 yrs of Great Tribulation are finished.
So the antichrist will arrive FIRST on Earth before Jesus comes back to EARTH.
Yo 
umm no don't buy it. Antichrist is destroyed by the brightness of His appearing.
Matt. 24 9. Jesus says "they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death and you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake ..."
umm no don't buy it. Antichrist is destroyed by the brightness of His appearing.
Matt. 24 9. Jesus says "they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death and you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake ..."
Just quoting it.
Ummmm…. Who said we wouldn’t go through tribulations? We will absolutely experience man’s wrath.
But why on Earth would we experience God’s wrath!?
oh never God's wrath, we are totally agreed on that.
Else Jesus’s Word is void.
Jesus said NO ONE knows the day or hour of His return.
Once the AC sits in the temple, there will be 3.5 years until Christ comes back. (See Daniel)
So if we are still here, every Christian will know when Jesus will return.
Kinda airtight case for at most a mid trib rapture if not a pre trib.
Right.
Paul even acknowledged that the Thessalonians themselves were experiencing such:
"in all your persecutionS and tribulationS [G2347 - thlipsesin ] THAT YE ENDURE [present tense]" - 2 Thessalonians 1:4
(the context and setting in which Paul writes this second letter to them)
- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2th/1/4/t_concif_1117004
Paul even acknowledged that the Thessalonians themselves were experiencing such:
"in all your persecutionS and tribulationS [G2347 - thlipsesin ] THAT YE ENDURE [present tense]" - 2 Thessalonians 1:4
(the context and setting in which Paul writes this second letter to them)
- https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2th/1/4/t_concif_1117004
Right, and in fact we will be "outta here" BEFORE his (the man of sin's) "WHOSE COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PAROUSIA" (2Th2:9a) happens [parallel several other passages], which "COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PAROUSIA" of him (man of sin) is WELL-BEFORE when he will do the "SIT" thing (v.4b) at mid-trib (in fact, 3.5 years before that point in the chronology! ALL RELATED PASSAGES on this point AGREE!)
At this "GREAT" trumpet (Matt24:29-31¶llels), notice WHO (and TO WHERE) the "gathering" pertains: SEE Isaiah 27:9,12-13
(and IN WHAT MANNER they will be gathered: "ONE BY ONE" [NOT "AS ONE," as WE will be!!])
Isa 27:9 a
By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin [read Rom11:27!! "when I shall take away THEIR [Israel's] SINS"; see Dan9:24!! Rom11:27,25,15... Hos5:14-6:3, etc etc]
[...]
Isa 27:12
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.
Isa 27:13
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet [Matt24:29-31 +] shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
You are INSERTING yourself (us / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") INTO a context NOT ABOUT "US"
In the Matthew 24:29-31 (¶llels) CONTEXT, it is THOSE who've been judicially SCATTERED who are the ones BEING "GATHERED" (re-gathered into ONE PLACE upon the EARTH--This is NOT "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]"! The Church WHICH IS HIS BODY is NOT who've been JUDICIALLY SCATTERED!]
(and IN WHAT MANNER they will be gathered: "ONE BY ONE" [NOT "AS ONE," as WE will be!!])
Isa 27:9 a
By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin [read Rom11:27!! "when I shall take away THEIR [Israel's] SINS"; see Dan9:24!! Rom11:27,25,15... Hos5:14-6:3, etc etc]
[...]
Isa 27:12
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.
Isa 27:13
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet [Matt24:29-31 +] shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
You are INSERTING yourself (us / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") INTO a context NOT ABOUT "US"
In the Matthew 24:29-31 (¶llels) CONTEXT, it is THOSE who've been judicially SCATTERED who are the ones BEING "GATHERED" (re-gathered into ONE PLACE upon the EARTH--This is NOT "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]"! The Church WHICH IS HIS BODY is NOT who've been JUDICIALLY SCATTERED!]
In what way is what I put there (not to mention, some other posts) "contradictory" to it?
[see my Post #59, for example... and rebut the points I've made there, if you'd like: https://christianchat.com/threads/the-church-paul-agrees-post-tribulation.214255/post-5252457 ]
[see my Post #59, for example... and rebut the points I've made there, if you'd like: https://christianchat.com/threads/the-church-paul-agrees-post-tribulation.214255/post-5252457 ]