The Complacent christian world.

[livingbygrace]

But obviously as you say if people choose to willfully sin when they do not have to, or when Christ has delivered them from certain sin the Spirit will obviously not bless them with gifts

This sounds very much like a reward system for our "works or being good". Don't "willfully sin" (whatever that means), and you'll be given the "gifts". BTW....does it not stand to reason that anytime we fail or fall short (or sin), we've done so willfully ?......that is,..given in to our fleshly nature and the temptations therein ?
Let me know what your understanding is of Gal 2:17&18
No, it is to do with the heart, I thought that was obvious

The idea is that if a person is SINCERE and wants in their heart to follow after Christ and live as he would have them live the "Spirit will not then withold a gift due to a persons imperfections/sin that needs dealing with", for the heart is where it should be with God

Who amongst us that has been convicted of our sin and our need for repentance and salvation through Christ's work on the cross hasn't been "sincere" ? Can one be convicted "insincerely" ? Those of us who don't believe that the gift of tongues is for today (or apostles and prophets),....is our heart not where it "should" be ? If my imperfection and sin had been "properly" dealt with (whatever that means), would I then have been given the "gift" of speaking gibberish .....that is, meaningless words that aren't even actual words ? Of what value is this ? Does this serve as "proof" to those who have received this "gift" that they truly have the Spirit of Christ within ? And if it does, what does this say about their faith, that signs are needed to be assured of as much ? Those who have believed and trusted in Christ's redeeming work on the cross HAVE had their sins properly dealt with.....because God's divinely inspired Word says so. They have been paid in full. And it goes without saying that it is ours to strive and do what is pleasing to our Lord. Faith without works is dead. But faith always precedes works ..... for the latter is just filthy rags in His sight. And herein lies the grace of God.....we are counted righteous by grace through faith.

No-one will be given a gift if they consider it gibberish

 

[livingbygrace]

I know exactly who you are talking about and have not forgotten a single thing. What is very common for you to do is to exaggerate and make an emphasis to oppose another and discredit them through a third party and it becomes lying and slander on your part. You have no knowledge of any pms that took place nor do you relate to what others said to her that she was also reactionary toward. You are a very crafty and deceitful person when you do this and you are spreading lies and false rumors because of the insecurity in your life that you have never dealt with.

Oh I just spoke honestly Red

All of these outbursts are simply because of a conversation where it was emphasised that it is the work of the Holy Spirit in a persons life that brings victory in them as they trust in Christ. The Holy Spirit is the power of the Christian today, and leads them into truth, it is not man's natural ability to understand through reading the Bible and reading up on various theologians and scholars

I knew you would react exactly as you have and I know why.


I

 

[Red33]

If someone desires to have the gift of tongues and God gives it to them, the only reason they would get it is so that they can have some kind of confirmation that they have the indwelling Spirit. God would give it to them because they live in unbelief and do not know how to trust God by faith through the word and promises of God. They need some kind of sign or evidence that God really saved them instead of what Christ told Thomas in (Jn 20:29)...

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed : blessed are they that have not seen , and yet have believed .

There are even some that live in sin and go to church and speak in tongues thinking that they are absolved of their sin by their gift. And they are nothing more than carnal Christians that have a gift and use it to appear spiritual and others get sucked right in because they have no discernment. These people could shout out a prophecy through their gift of tongues with an interpretation but who is there to approve and confirm the interpretation? For all they know this tongue prophecy could be cursing God or His body (the church) and who would be the wiser. Everybody gets all excited about the tongue and interpretation but when it comes to being build up in sound doctrine, they either go to sleep or slip away from the service and can't wait to light up and have a smoke or a cold glass of wine or beer.

 

[Red33]

Oh I just spoke honestly Red

All of these outbursts are simply because of a conversation where it was emphasised that it is the work of the Holy Spirit in a persons life that brings victory in them as they trust in Christ. The Holy Spirit is the power of the Christian today, and leads them into truth, it is not man's natural ability to understand through reading the Bible and reading up on various theologians and scholars

I knew you would react exactly as you have and I know why.


I

You just love to exaggerate and presume against others. You can call them outbursts or even rages, if you like, it has no effect on me or the truth. Paint whatever picture you desire in you own imaginations and multiply it times (100) if that will make you feel better. I am not insecure like you and I cherish a sound mind and having grace in my heart because of God's faithfulness to His word and promises. When the Holy Spirit sees the word and grace and all kinds of doctrine in the heart, He gets all excited and can't wait to quicken that believer who has this treasure in their earthen vessel. That's where the power of God comes from and all we do is walk by faith in the light of God's word and then BANG!

 

[livingbygrace]

If someone desires to have the gift of tongues and God gives it to them, the only reason they would get it is so that they can have some kind of confirmation that they have the indwelling Spirit. God would give it to them because they live in unbelief and do not know how to trust God by faith through the word and promises of God. They need some kind of sign or evidence that God really saved them instead of what Christ told Thomas in (Jn 20:29)...

This is ridulous

Does God give you the spirit and work miracles among you becasue you observe the law or becasue you BELIEVE what you heard?
Gal 3:5




29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed : blessed are they that have not seen , and yet have believed .

There are even some that live in sin and go to church and speak in tongues thinking that they are absolved of their sin by their gift. And they are nothing more than carnal Christians that have a gift and use it to appear spiritual and others get sucked right in because they have no discernment. These people could shout out a prophecy through their gift of tongues with an interpretation but who is there to approve and confirm the interpretation? For all they know this tongue prophecy could be cursing God or His body (the church) and who would be the wiser. Everybody gets all excited about the tongue and interpretation but when it comes to being build up in sound doctrine, they either go to sleep or slip away from the service and can't wait to light up and have a smoke or a cold glass of wine or beer.

And the proud shall be humbled, and the humbled shall be exalted

 

[livingbygrace]

You just love to exaggerate and presume against others. You can call them outbursts or even rages, if you like, it has no effect on me or the truth. Paint whatever picture you desire in you own imaginations and multiply it times (100) if that will make you feel better. I am not insecure like you and I cherish a sound mind and having grace in my heart because of God's faithfulness to His word and promises. When the Holy Spirit sees the word and grace and all kinds of doctrine in the heart, He gets all excited and can't wait to quicken that believer who has this treasure in their earthen vessel. That's where the power of God comes from and all we do is walk by faith in the light of God's word and then BANG!

Well as you are contnuously maligning me I might as well be honest here

All of these tantrums of yours today are because you are so filled with pride. As I have told you many times you are on cc for one reason only to preach to others and when people do not play to your tune you get upset

That is carnal Christianity Red

You believe you have been raised up as a teacher/preacher of the word and you want to be revered and esteemed as such

That is carnal Christianity

You therefore do not like it when it is said that it is the Holy Spirit inside the individual that shows them truth as they trust in Christ, for you want the recognition for yourself for by your own effort knowing what you believe you do, that is carnal Christianity

You keep talking about those who 'have been through the fire' refering to yourself in effect

And when people do not play to your tune you malign them, are rude to them(as others have pointed out to you, not just me) and lash out against them.

A person who in their heart wants the glory and recognition for themselves will never be able to understand what truly matters, and their heart is not where it should be

You can quote all the scripture you want to but until the day comes when it is for the glory of God it will not mean much

 

[Red33]

Well as you are contnuously maligning me I might as well be honest here

All of these tantrums of yours today are because you are so filled with pride. As I have told you many times you are on cc for one reason only to preach to others and when people do not play to your tune you get upset

That is carnal Christianity Red

You believe you have been raised up as a teacher/preacher of the word and you want to be revered and esteemed as such

*I think that you have a hard time receiving from those that have been taught better and have seen the power of God in the midst of the body do great times in many parts of the world, including establishing over 400 local churches worldwide in some 80+ countries. It takes a labor of love, faithfulness, diligence, trust and faith and the power of God through the Spirit to do that all by grace over a span of about 35-40 years. I call that fruit and much rejoicing.

Did you know that when we preach the gospel and one soul repents and gets saved that all of heaven rejoices over that one soul (Lk 15:7,10). When we seek the lost and give them the gospel and they believe upon Christ by grace through faith, we actually can effect all of heaven with rejoicing. I like that picture and it makes me and motivates me through love to go win the lost. Doesn't you? I think it would any believer that loves the Lord.

That is carnal Christianity

You therefore do not like it when it is said that it is the Holy Spirit inside the individual that shows them truth as they trust in Christ, for you want the recognition for yourself for by your own effort knowing what you believe you do, that is carnal Christianity

You keep talking about those who 'have been through the fire' refering to yourself in effect

And when people do not play to your tune you malign them, are rude to them(as others have pointed out to you, not just me) and lash out against them.

A person who in their heart wants the glory and recognition for themselves will never be able to understand what truly matters, and their heart is not where it should be

You can quote all the scripture you want to but until the day comes when it is for the glory of God it will not mean much

If you keep this up you will be forcing me to use measures against you that will have you disciplined and removed from the synagogue. Do I make myself clear?

 

[livingbygrace]

If you keep this up you will be forcing me to use measures against you that will have you disciplined and removed from the synagogue. Do I make myself clear?

I think some repeat words from the head and not the heart

 

[silverwind]

If you keep this up you will be forcing me to use measures against you that will have you disciplined and removed from the synagogue. Do I make myself clear?

whoa..

i think you 2 need to go walk the dog, or get some fresh air.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

You have a group of 'George Whitefield' teenagers, go gather them together and train them up in the ways of the Lord and teach them doctrine and send them out and/or go with them. You seem to be zealous of this. We already have the commission to go into all the world, so you do not have to wait for the Spirit to tell you to go because Christ has already, unless you think that Christ did not have the Spirit or that His words were not inspired. Did the Spirit tell you to say this in your own words...

'I would rather have a handful of inexperienced teenagers who cry out to God earnestly seeking his presence and His will concerning a matter than a group of well educated pastors who on;y think and act according to their interpretation of the scriptures.'

... if the Spirit did, perhaps you should exercise faith and obey what the Spirit is leading you to do. Why be complacent and disobedient about it. Don't those teens need your leadership and experience so that they can grow up and be men and women of God and be filled with the Spirit?

You're missing the point. I work with teens and believe me they're more than willing to go and do. However, I suggest to you that it's when they don't listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit that's where the trouble begins. Sometimes the Lord may want us to go places to meet people to say something that you and I might rather not get involved due to physical danger, persecution or simply not feeling worthy or up to the task. It might be a muslim mosque, a crack house, a gay bar or maybe even a church full of modern day pharisees but if you choose to obey Him, He will not only protect you but He will also give you the strength and the words to say to complete the task.

I have a question for you? How many souls saved per year has your church experienced in it's services over the last year? Maybe 5... 10 to 20 if you're lucky? Because of the annointing on his life, Charles Finney would bring that many souls into the kingdom of the course of one single lunch hour. Why? Because he was where the Spirit wanted him when He wanted him.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

If you keep this up you will be forcing me to use measures against you that will have you disciplined and removed from the synagogue. Do I make myself clear?

*shaking head*

I do love reading church history. It never ceases to amaze me how over the course of the centuries and even to this very day, Christians (or at least they profess to be) go out of there way to torment and persecute other Christians who may see things a little differently from themselves. They think themselves to be some sort of watchmen standing up for the cause of Christ but when all is said and done, history ussually reveals that what they were protecting wasn't what was in God's best interest but their own. And when you compare the two "ministries" for lack of the better term, it is ussually that which is persecuted that goes on to do a far more greater work for the Glory of God than those doing the persecutuing. I am reminded of the persecution by the Catholics of Wycliffe, Hus & Luther. Also the early Calvinists persecution of the Arminians. The Puritans persecution of the Quakers. The Presbyterian persecution of the primitive Baptists (far removed from what they've become today). The Anglican persecution of the early Methodists. The list goes on and on....

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

There are even some that live in sin and go to church and speak in tongues thinking that they are absolved of their sin by their gift. And they are nothing more than carnal Christians that have a gift and use it to appear spiritual and others get sucked right in because they have no discernment. These people could shout out a prophecy through their gift of tongues with an interpretation but who is there to approve and confirm the interpretation? For all they know this tongue prophecy could be cursing God or His body (the church) and who would be the wiser. Everybody gets all excited about the tongue and interpretation but when it comes to being build up in sound doctrine, they either go to sleep or slip away from the service and can't wait to light up and have a smoke or a cold glass of wine or beer.

That's called hyper spiritualism and it's not of God but just another form of religion like any other. I can guarentee you that if these people don't see souls saved or healed. However, where I come from the people that practice the behaviour that you've described ussually belong to OSAS churches who also believe in the gifts are for today.

 

[Red33]

*shaking head*

I do love reading church history. It never ceases to amaze me how over the course of the centuries and even to this very day, Christians (or at least they profess to be) go out of there way to torment and persecute other Christians who may see things a little differently from themselves. They think themselves to be some sort of watchmen standing up for the cause of Christ but when all is said and done, history ussually reveals that what they were protecting wasn't what was in God's best interest but their own. And when you compare the two "ministries" for lack of the better term, it is ussually that which is persecuted that goes on to do a far more greater work for the Glory of God than those doing the persecutuing. I am reminded of the persecution by the Catholics of Wycliffe, Hus & Luther. Also the early Calvinists persecution of the Arminians. The Puritans persecution of the Quakers. The Presbyterian persecution of the primitive Baptists (far removed from what they've become today). The Anglican persecution of the early Methodists. The list goes on and on....

Lay off the persecution complex, no one is being persecuted just challenged here and there and people get upset and others, like yourself, come in to rescue the day. Go take a walk and sober up and come back when you can be a little more practical in your faith or I'll throw my Pharisee at you to. I am having some fun, are you?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Lay off the persecution complex, no one is being persecuted just challenged here and there and people get upset and others, like yourself, come in to rescue the day. Go take a walk and sober up and come back when you can be a little more practical in your faith or I'll throw my Pharisee at you to. I am having some fun, are you?

From here it appears as if Living By Grace can't make a post on these boards without you stalking him and "challenging" him. It's been that way since I've encountered the two of you some time ago. Maybe you should find another hobby. I once heard that prayer can move the heart of God on your behalf. Why not start praying for people instead of playing the role of the "overly critical shadow".

Although I do think it's funny that you would choose to associate yourself with a "pharisee" considering they were known for going through great efforts to convert a single soul only for that soul to become twice the son of Hell...

you walked right into that one!

 

[Red33]

From here it appears as if Living By Grace can't make a post on these boards without you stalking him and "challenging" him. It's been that way since I've encountered the two of you some time ago. Maybe you should find another hobby. I once heard that prayer can move the heart of God on your behalf. Why not start praying for people instead of playing the role of the "overly critical shadow".

Did you ever look to see if it might just be the other way around. He has been haunting me (and some others), demanding that I answer his questions or else I'll have no credibility with anyone. Ask LBG if he believes that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh or not. Have fun with that one.

Although I do think it's funny that you would choose to associate yourself with a "pharisee" considering they were known for going through great efforts to convert a single soul only for that soul to become twice the son of Hell...

you walked right into that one!

LOOK ABOVE

 

[livingbygrace]

Red is a strange fellow

He believes he has been raised up as a preacher/teacher of the word, but when you put questions to him concerning scripture he has no answer to them

He revels in placing scripture before many to criticise or find fault with them

He certainly is on this website to try and extol himself, but then he constantly speaks of the need for humility

He lashes out at people and is rude to them, but then constantly speaks of love being a priority for a Christian

He believes that anyone who believes they can speak in tongues is in all probability bering led of satan

He believes satan and his confederates had the power to keep God Himself in the grave for three days

And a person does not need to repent for salvation

And when a person falls in their Christian life it could well be that God has instigated this/allowed it to happen to show his mercy and forgiveness to others

Oh well, never mind

 

[AnandaHya]

whoa..

i think you 2 need to go walk the dog, or get some fresh air.

lol i was viewing it the same way I do when brothers greet each other by wrestling the other person to the floor and see who was the top dog. except they are doing it with words and their wit.

male bondage.. umm I mean bonding....

 

[AnandaHya]

From here it appears as if Living By Grace can't make a post on these boards without you stalking him and "challenging" him. It's been that way since I've encountered the two of you some time ago. Maybe you should find another hobby. I once heard that prayer can move the heart of God on your behalf. Why not start praying for people instead of playing the role of the "overly critical shadow".

Although I do think it's funny that you would choose to associate yourself with a "pharisee" considering they were known for going through great efforts to convert a single soul only for that soul to become twice the son of Hell...

you walked right into that one!

LOL unless you want to join the wrestling match, i suggest just sitting back and waiting to see if LBG wants someone to tag in for him.....Red says he's having fun, how bout you LBG need a break?

 

[livingbygrace]

LOL unless you want to join the wrestling match, i suggest just sitting back and waiting to see if LBG wants someone to tag in for him.....Red says he's having fun, how bout you LBG need a break?

Well if Red can say he is having fun making the comments he is I would suggest it does not say much for Red

But it seems from your words Ananda you are finding it amusing so I guess we are brightening up someones day

 

[AnandaHya]

*shaking head*

I do love reading church history. It never ceases to amaze me how over the course of the centuries and even to this very day, Christians (or at least they profess to be) go out of there way to torment and persecute other Christians who may see things a little differently from themselves. They think themselves to be some sort of watchmen standing up for the cause of Christ but when all is said and done, history ussually reveals that what they were protecting wasn't what was in God's best interest but their own. And when you compare the two "ministries" for lack of the better term, it is ussually that which is persecuted that goes on to do a far more greater work for the Glory of God than those doing the persecutuing. I am reminded of the persecution by the Catholics of Wycliffe, Hus & Luther. Also the early Calvinists persecution of the Arminians. The Puritans persecution of the Quakers. The Presbyterian persecution of the primitive Baptists (far removed from what they've become today). The Anglican persecution of the early Methodists. The list goes on and on....

I listened to a sermon today that said the people justify doing their sin in their hearts before committing it. Most who are sinning do not admit that it is a sin. It is not until the Holy Spirit convicts them that they repent and are healed by God's forgiveness.

Some are they are self justified and do not listen to correction or the chastening of God when they hear it because they tell the Holy Spirit that its demonic. That is why so many people open themselves up to attack by unseen forces. For we do not battle against people but against unseen forces of darkness in high places and in our own lives.

Isaiah 59:17
For He put on righteousness as a breastplate, And a helmet of salvation on His head; He put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, And was clad with zeal as a cloak.

Ephesians 6:16-18 (New King James Version)

16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

1 Thessalonians 5:7-9 (New King James Version)

7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Peace of the Lord be with you.