The Council at Jerusalem - Acts chapter 15
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I never claimed their titles were scripture. Having, said that every Bible we read is a translation. I simply believe the writers of those 3 Bibles are a better source then you.
Additionally, when I read Acts & Gal I see the same event. How about we throw Gal out of the conversation.
And return to the focus the OP: Acts 15 - The Council at Jerusalem
Synopsis:
Jerusalem assembly apostles Peter, James & the elders (OP - vs 6 & 9) confirm in writing (OP - vs 23 & 29)
Paul's message that new covenant believing gentiles (or Jews).
DON'T have to adhere to the Covenant of Circumcision nor the Mosaic covenant (OP - vs 24).
Which means believers today: DON'T have to adhere to the Covenant of Circumcision nor the Mosaic covenant.[/quote]
Salvation is the same for Jews and Greeks-- through faith. Abraham is the father of faith both to the circumcised and uncircumcised, according to the book of Romans-- a man about whom it is written that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.
But is it appropriate for Jewish believers to be circumcised, or to circumcise their children? What about keeping the law, or attempting to? The issue that faced the council there... made up of those who likely were doing their best to keep kosher and follow the law of Moses... was whether Gentiles were to be circumcised and to obey the law of Moses.
Again, look at how James interpreted the Acts 15 decision when he, the elders, and Paul spoke in Acts 21. And notice what he encourages Paul to do to dispel the impression that, among other things, he taught Jews not to circumcise their children.
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
On the one hand, we have Christian Jews circumcising children and walking according to customs. James wanted Paul to go participate in temple rituals with some men who had a vow on them by paying their expenses. He did. He went into the temple into a place where Gentiles were not allowed to God. Why would they ask him to pay for these men's vows? I have read the opinion that Jews considered that to be a pious thing to do.
Some time before, Paul had made a vow.
Acts 18:18
So Paul still remained a good while. Then he took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and Priscilla and Aquila were with him. He had his hair cut off at Cenchrea, for he had taken a vow. (NKJV)
The Old Testament gave instructions regarding a Nazarite vow in which one makes a vow, doesn't cut hair, doesn't touch dead bodies or drink alcohol or eat grapes or derivatives thereof, then turns in the hair at the tabernacle. It could be that Paul shaved his head first to prevent having to be encumbered with the extra unvowed hair before growing out the vowed hair. So if he went to Jerusalem, compelled in spirit to fulfill his vow, for which he must needs have gone to Jerusalem, then James sees he's there for a haircut, sending him with the others still makes sense.
And if Egyptians at the time were still clean shaven all over, and Paul just got his sanctified haircut in the temple, it makes sense that a centurion in the temple might mistake him for an Egyptian political enemy he had heard about just from looking at him.
If this were the case, then Paul may have been trying to observe Torah himself, even in the midst of his ministry to Gentiles. He and Barnabas were also not compelled to circumcised Timothy, a Greek, but Paul did circumcise Timothy, the son of a Jewish mother.
Okay, but this point of doctrine is not mentioned in Acts 15. Peter did say they believed they shall be saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. The approach in Acts 15 seems to be 'What does the Old Testament require of Gentiles' and interpreting that in light of what had been revealed about Jesus' role as the Messiah.
Additionally, when I read Acts & Gal I see the same event. How about we throw Gal out of the conversation.
And return to the focus the OP: Acts 15 - The Council at Jerusalem
Synopsis:
Jerusalem assembly apostles Peter, James & the elders (OP - vs 6 & 9) confirm in writing (OP - vs 23 & 29)
Paul's message that new covenant believing gentiles (or Jews).
DON'T have to adhere to the Covenant of Circumcision nor the Mosaic covenant (OP - vs 24).
Which means believers today: DON'T have to adhere to the Covenant of Circumcision nor the Mosaic covenant.[/quote]
Salvation is the same for Jews and Greeks-- through faith. Abraham is the father of faith both to the circumcised and uncircumcised, according to the book of Romans-- a man about whom it is written that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.
But is it appropriate for Jewish believers to be circumcised, or to circumcise their children? What about keeping the law, or attempting to? The issue that faced the council there... made up of those who likely were doing their best to keep kosher and follow the law of Moses... was whether Gentiles were to be circumcised and to obey the law of Moses.
Again, look at how James interpreted the Acts 15 decision when he, the elders, and Paul spoke in Acts 21. And notice what he encourages Paul to do to dispel the impression that, among other things, he taught Jews not to circumcise their children.
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
On the one hand, we have Christian Jews circumcising children and walking according to customs. James wanted Paul to go participate in temple rituals with some men who had a vow on them by paying their expenses. He did. He went into the temple into a place where Gentiles were not allowed to God. Why would they ask him to pay for these men's vows? I have read the opinion that Jews considered that to be a pious thing to do.
Some time before, Paul had made a vow.
Acts 18:18
So Paul still remained a good while. Then he took leave of the brethren and sailed for Syria, and Priscilla and Aquila were with him. He had his hair cut off at Cenchrea, for he had taken a vow. (NKJV)
The Old Testament gave instructions regarding a Nazarite vow in which one makes a vow, doesn't cut hair, doesn't touch dead bodies or drink alcohol or eat grapes or derivatives thereof, then turns in the hair at the tabernacle. It could be that Paul shaved his head first to prevent having to be encumbered with the extra unvowed hair before growing out the vowed hair. So if he went to Jerusalem, compelled in spirit to fulfill his vow, for which he must needs have gone to Jerusalem, then James sees he's there for a haircut, sending him with the others still makes sense.
And if Egyptians at the time were still clean shaven all over, and Paul just got his sanctified haircut in the temple, it makes sense that a centurion in the temple might mistake him for an Egyptian political enemy he had heard about just from looking at him.
If this were the case, then Paul may have been trying to observe Torah himself, even in the midst of his ministry to Gentiles. He and Barnabas were also not compelled to circumcised Timothy, a Greek, but Paul did circumcise Timothy, the son of a Jewish mother.
Okay, but this point of doctrine is not mentioned in Acts 15. Peter did say they believed they shall be saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. The approach in Acts 15 seems to be 'What does the Old Testament require of Gentiles' and interpreting that in light of what had been revealed about Jesus' role as the Messiah.
I think that is the right interpretation, but it is not explicit in the text. [This is something important for @FlyingDove too.]
In Acts 15, Paul and Barnabas go to Jerusalem after having a dispute with Gentile-circumcision promoters in Antioch. Then there is a meeting of the church about it in which some Pharisee Christians promote Gentile circumcision. Then the apostles and elders...including Paul and Barnabas in the group... meet to discuss this. But in Galatians, he goes up their privately and speaks to certain men of reputation. He meets with James, Cephas, and John.
Galatians 2, 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
I think the three pillars included James the son of Zebedee, and that the Gentile circumcision issue had been brewing for a while before the resolution in Acts 15, after the book of Galatians had been written to some of the first missionary journey churches.
In Acts 15, Paul and Barnabas go to Jerusalem after having a dispute with Gentile-circumcision promoters in Antioch. Then there is a meeting of the church about it in which some Pharisee Christians promote Gentile circumcision. Then the apostles and elders...including Paul and Barnabas in the group... meet to discuss this. But in Galatians, he goes up their privately and speaks to certain men of reputation. He meets with James, Cephas, and John.
Galatians 2, 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
I think the three pillars included James the son of Zebedee, and that the Gentile circumcision issue had been brewing for a while before the resolution in Acts 15, after the book of Galatians had been written to some of the first missionary journey churches.
Salvation is the same for Jews and Greeks-- through faith. Abraham is the father of faith both to the circumcised and uncircumcised, according to the book of Romans-- a man about whom it is written that Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness.
But is it appropriate for Jewish believers to be circumcised, or to circumcise their children?[/QUOTE]
So, is salvation the same for Jews and Greeks-- through faith. Or is it appropriate for Jewish believers to be circumcised, or to circumcise their children?
I believe Acts 15 clearly spells that out.
I'll try to put the focus back on my reason for placing the OP
Vs 8, God who knows the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us (Jews)
Vs 9, God put no difference between Jew or Gentile purifying their hearts (with the Holy Spirit) by FAITH!
Vs 19, James a leading Jew at the Jerusalem assembly say's: my sentence is, that we trouble not Gentiles that have turned to God:
Vs 20, We write to them these rules: No idol worship, abstain fornication, from things strangled & from blood
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Vs 22, The APOSTLES <plural> ELDERS of the whole church! Send men they chose to the gentile churches with Paul, Barnabas, Silas etc.
Vs 24, The letters The APOSTLES <plural> ELDERS send say: We have heard that some Pharisee's from among up have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying: Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: We gave NO such COMMANDMENT.
Bottom Line:
This chapter clearly say's God (by His grace) gave the gentiles the Holy Spirit (salvations seal) thru FAITH! By Grace thru Faith!
And you DON'T have to be CIRCUMCISED """or""" Keep the law! To be saved (vs 1)
This is what I want every person that reads this thread to grasp.
But is it appropriate for Jewish believers to be circumcised, or to circumcise their children?[/QUOTE]
So, is salvation the same for Jews and Greeks-- through faith. Or is it appropriate for Jewish believers to be circumcised, or to circumcise their children?
I believe Acts 15 clearly spells that out.
I'll try to put the focus back on my reason for placing the OP
Vs 8, God who knows the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us (Jews)
Vs 9, God put no difference between Jew or Gentile purifying their hearts (with the Holy Spirit) by FAITH!
Vs 19, James a leading Jew at the Jerusalem assembly say's: my sentence is, that we trouble not Gentiles that have turned to God:
Vs 20, We write to them these rules: No idol worship, abstain fornication, from things strangled & from blood
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Vs 22, The APOSTLES <plural> ELDERS of the whole church! Send men they chose to the gentile churches with Paul, Barnabas, Silas etc.
Vs 24, The letters The APOSTLES <plural> ELDERS send say: We have heard that some Pharisee's from among up have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying: Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: We gave NO such COMMANDMENT.
Bottom Line:
This chapter clearly say's God (by His grace) gave the gentiles the Holy Spirit (salvations seal) thru FAITH! By Grace thru Faith!
And you DON'T have to be CIRCUMCISED """or""" Keep the law! To be saved (vs 1)
This is what I want every person that reads this thread to grasp.
Gal 1:19 adds nothing to my postings.
Paul chronicle: converted on the road to Damascus, then goes to Arabia (Gal 1:17) 3 years later he goes to Jerusalem (Gal 1:18-19) meets with Peter & the Lord's 1;2 brother James.
Paul's chronicle continues: Onto Gal chapter 2:1 14 years """later""" Paul then goes """again""" to Jerusalem & partakes in the The Council at Jerusalem. It's now at least 17 years since the road to Damascus.
Paul chronicle: converted on the road to Damascus, then goes to Arabia (Gal 1:17) 3 years later he goes to Jerusalem (Gal 1:18-19) meets with Peter & the Lord's 1;2 brother James.
Paul's chronicle continues: Onto Gal chapter 2:1 14 years """later""" Paul then goes """again""" to Jerusalem & partakes in the The Council at Jerusalem. It's now at least 17 years since the road to Damascus.
Galatians 2 does not say that goes up to the council at Jerusalem. In Galatians 2, we see that he went up by revelation to Jerusalem to speak to those of reputation privately, lest he should have run in vain. So apparently, he was kind of double-checking his Gospel against theirs. This Gentile circumcision doctrine was probably floating around, and he may have received revelation about Jesus sending the other apostles or known about it. If their gospels didn't line up, that would have been an issue.
But in Acts 15, at the council of Jerusalem, there is no mention of a revelation leading him to go to Jerusalem. Acts 15 does not present this as a private thing. Teachers from Jerusalem were promoting Gentile circumcision in Antioch. He and Barnabas dispute with them, then go to Jerusalem. In Galatians 2, Paul goes to Jerusalem privately, but in Acts 15, they are sent by the church in Antioch. In Galatians 2, Paul goes privately. In Acts 15, he and Barnabas make stops along the way in Samaria and Phonecia telling the brethren about the conversion of the Gentiles.
In Galatians 2, he goes up privately to speak with some leaders of reputation. In Acts 15, they are received by the church and the apostles elders and there was some kind of meeting where some of the Pharisees among the church promoted the idea of Gentile circumcision. Then they had a meeting with the apostles and elders, not just Paul talking to James, Cephas, and John.
Also, Paul is a seasoned minister in Acts 15. In Galatians 2, he is going up to speak with leaders lest he had run his faith in vain.
This seems to make more sense to me-- Acts 9 tells of the Galatians 2 meeting. Either the Galatians 1 and 2 meetings Paul had with Peter/Cephas are kind of collapsed in with the Galatians 2 meeting he had with Peter, James, and John, or else Acts 9 just deals with the second meeting.
So here is a plausible scenario that fits both Acts 9 and 15 and Galatians 1-2. Paul is converted and spends three years in the desert. After 14 years (maybe from his conversion?), he goes up to Jerusalem and meets Peter. He's doing some preaching during this time. Barnabas meets him somewhere along the line, maybe in Damascus, or he hears about his ministry in Damascus. They go up to Jerusalem where Barnabas brings then to the apostles. Paul's motivation in going was that he actually had a revelation to go there. He might have been a bit shy to go to Jerusalem after holding the garments of those who stoned Stephen and imprisoning believers. He may have also encountered Gentile circumcision promoters who claimed faith in Jesus-- who may have combined the message of Jesus onto their Pharisaical proselytization methods, instead of preaching salvation through faith in Jesus the way Paul did. Paul wanted to communicate his message to the apostles to make sure he had not run in vain.
So in Jerusalem, he first meets James, Cephas, and John... I am guessing James the Son of Zebedee who was likely had a reputation as a top leader at this time before his martyrdom. These would have been the three on the Mount of Transfiguration. They did not add anything to his gospel, gave him the right hand of fellowship, and recognized the grace in him and Barnabas to minister to the Gentiles.
After this, then,
28 So he was with them at Jerusalem, coming in and going out. 29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists, but they attempted to kill him. 30 When the brethren found out, they brought him down to Caesarea and sent him out to Tarsus. (Acts 9, NKJV)
That did not happen in Galatians 1 after that meeting Peter being the only apostle he'd met of the 12, and also meeting James the Lord's brother. After meeting Peter and James the Lord's brother, Paul wrote,
22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
No being with the apostle sin Jerusalem, coming in and going out in Jerusalem.
The Acts 9 meeting does not fit with the Galatians 1 meeting. But it can work with the Galatians 2 meting, which would most likely put all this before the Jerusalem council. I have read a lot of estimates that put the council around 50 AD. I've read 48 AD. I've also read 45-55 AD. And some put the birth of Christ at 4 BC or so, and the crucifixion before 30. It's guesswork, but this scenario does require the Jerusalem council be a bit later, not right at 50, but a few years later works. Paul needs 14 years before his meeting with James, Cephas, and John, and time for the first missionary journey, maybe two years.
Then Galatians maybe from Antioch, possibly after this Gentile-circumcision problem had been brewing with a while. The apostles in Jerusalem, three of them at least, had confirmed his Gospel, but there was a need for some decisive leadership to settle the matter.
But in Acts 15, at the council of Jerusalem, there is no mention of a revelation leading him to go to Jerusalem. Acts 15 does not present this as a private thing. Teachers from Jerusalem were promoting Gentile circumcision in Antioch. He and Barnabas dispute with them, then go to Jerusalem. In Galatians 2, Paul goes to Jerusalem privately, but in Acts 15, they are sent by the church in Antioch. In Galatians 2, Paul goes privately. In Acts 15, he and Barnabas make stops along the way in Samaria and Phonecia telling the brethren about the conversion of the Gentiles.
In Galatians 2, he goes up privately to speak with some leaders of reputation. In Acts 15, they are received by the church and the apostles elders and there was some kind of meeting where some of the Pharisees among the church promoted the idea of Gentile circumcision. Then they had a meeting with the apostles and elders, not just Paul talking to James, Cephas, and John.
Also, Paul is a seasoned minister in Acts 15. In Galatians 2, he is going up to speak with leaders lest he had run his faith in vain.
This seems to make more sense to me-- Acts 9 tells of the Galatians 2 meeting. Either the Galatians 1 and 2 meetings Paul had with Peter/Cephas are kind of collapsed in with the Galatians 2 meeting he had with Peter, James, and John, or else Acts 9 just deals with the second meeting.
So here is a plausible scenario that fits both Acts 9 and 15 and Galatians 1-2. Paul is converted and spends three years in the desert. After 14 years (maybe from his conversion?), he goes up to Jerusalem and meets Peter. He's doing some preaching during this time. Barnabas meets him somewhere along the line, maybe in Damascus, or he hears about his ministry in Damascus. They go up to Jerusalem where Barnabas brings then to the apostles. Paul's motivation in going was that he actually had a revelation to go there. He might have been a bit shy to go to Jerusalem after holding the garments of those who stoned Stephen and imprisoning believers. He may have also encountered Gentile circumcision promoters who claimed faith in Jesus-- who may have combined the message of Jesus onto their Pharisaical proselytization methods, instead of preaching salvation through faith in Jesus the way Paul did. Paul wanted to communicate his message to the apostles to make sure he had not run in vain.
So in Jerusalem, he first meets James, Cephas, and John... I am guessing James the Son of Zebedee who was likely had a reputation as a top leader at this time before his martyrdom. These would have been the three on the Mount of Transfiguration. They did not add anything to his gospel, gave him the right hand of fellowship, and recognized the grace in him and Barnabas to minister to the Gentiles.
After this, then,
28 So he was with them at Jerusalem, coming in and going out. 29 And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists, but they attempted to kill him. 30 When the brethren found out, they brought him down to Caesarea and sent him out to Tarsus. (Acts 9, NKJV)
That did not happen in Galatians 1 after that meeting Peter being the only apostle he'd met of the 12, and also meeting James the Lord's brother. After meeting Peter and James the Lord's brother, Paul wrote,
22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
No being with the apostle sin Jerusalem, coming in and going out in Jerusalem.
The Acts 9 meeting does not fit with the Galatians 1 meeting. But it can work with the Galatians 2 meting, which would most likely put all this before the Jerusalem council. I have read a lot of estimates that put the council around 50 AD. I've read 48 AD. I've also read 45-55 AD. And some put the birth of Christ at 4 BC or so, and the crucifixion before 30. It's guesswork, but this scenario does require the Jerusalem council be a bit later, not right at 50, but a few years later works. Paul needs 14 years before his meeting with James, Cephas, and John, and time for the first missionary journey, maybe two years.
Then Galatians maybe from Antioch, possibly after this Gentile-circumcision problem had been brewing with a while. The apostles in Jerusalem, three of them at least, had confirmed his Gospel, but there was a need for some decisive leadership to settle the matter.
Peter is referencing when he himself was sent by God to gentiles to preach the gospel he’s referencing this
“And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me? Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 10:28-29, 33-48 KJV
Is it clear who gentiles are ? They are anyone other than a Jew from all other nations ll the rest of tv earthly people are gentiles my point is this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
They were already sent to gentiles by Jesus with the one and only gospel
Paul was yet a unbelieving Pharisee at this point he hadn’t even been converted to Christianity yet the gospel was already spreading throughout the whole regions before Paul ever was converted in fact sails persecutions of the Christian’s is the thing that caused them to fan out spreading the gospel as Jesus foretold
“And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judæa and Samaria, except the apostles. As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.”
Acts 8:1, 3-4
the importance at this time is from here on they were all preaching the gospel to gentiles and Jew all creatures when Paul comes along the gospel has already been preached throughout the area later Paul carried it further but thy idea that Paul is somehow the only one who preached to gentiles is totally wrong the letters are interchangeable Paul’s letters were sent to the churches as were peters , johns James Jesus brother…..
Paul’s letters show this really clearly
“For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.”
1 Corinthians 15:9-11
translation “ it doesn’t matter if the other apostles or I have preached the gospel to you , what matters is you believe “
peters letter also bear this out speaking to the church he references the letters Paul has written to them showing they were both writing to the one and only church in the church there are former Jews and former gentiles the two peoples are now one people
to be a Jew in Christ or a gentile in him doesn’t even exist that’s all prior to Christ before we had hope everyone is considered the same in Christ there is no Jew nor a gentile but only Gods children
my point is if Paul wrote or Peter wrote or John wrote everything applies to the one church they we’re founding
“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
The apostles are all equal Paul sent to gentiles Was because of convenience paul was a Roman citizen by birth , this gave him many practical advantages to the Jewish non citizens of rome and Paul’s citizenship was by birth this meant things like when in turmoil or hazard Paul could appeal to Caesar and save his life the others were Jews only not as Paul a duel citizen had less freedoms and advantages outside Jerusalem
because Paul had been connected already with gentiles it made perfect sense to send him outward having those advantages also of education writing also his establishments in the Roman society and knowledge of those areas practically Paul eas best suited to head to the gentiles but it’s really important that we actually take Paul’s mystery to heart here
“For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
Ephesians 3:1, 3, 5-6 KJV
gentiles are being brought into the gospel the same one preached to Jew forst now gentiles are included there’s no difference anymore that’s Old Testament
the point bekng when people are explaining a gospel for Jews and another for gentiles they are missing the whole point of one shepherd and one flock gentile and Jew one people under God
The mystery is that gentiles are now included in Christ by the gospel with Jews who Jesus forst preached the gospel to and then after he sent believers out preaching it to everyone
Paul’s a great man but he’s not special among the apostles they are steam spreading the gospel the message is for us all no matter which apostle of Christ said it it’s really a red herring
“And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me? Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”Acts 10:28-29, 33-48 KJV
Is it clear who gentiles are ? They are anyone other than a Jew from all other nations ll the rest of tv earthly people are gentiles my point is this
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
They were already sent to gentiles by Jesus with the one and only gospel
Paul was yet a unbelieving Pharisee at this point he hadn’t even been converted to Christianity yet the gospel was already spreading throughout the whole regions before Paul ever was converted in fact sails persecutions of the Christian’s is the thing that caused them to fan out spreading the gospel as Jesus foretold
“And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judæa and Samaria, except the apostles. As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.”
Acts 8:1, 3-4
the importance at this time is from here on they were all preaching the gospel to gentiles and Jew all creatures when Paul comes along the gospel has already been preached throughout the area later Paul carried it further but thy idea that Paul is somehow the only one who preached to gentiles is totally wrong the letters are interchangeable Paul’s letters were sent to the churches as were peters , johns James Jesus brother…..
Paul’s letters show this really clearly
“For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.”
1 Corinthians 15:9-11
translation “ it doesn’t matter if the other apostles or I have preached the gospel to you , what matters is you believe “
peters letter also bear this out speaking to the church he references the letters Paul has written to them showing they were both writing to the one and only church in the church there are former Jews and former gentiles the two peoples are now one people
to be a Jew in Christ or a gentile in him doesn’t even exist that’s all prior to Christ before we had hope everyone is considered the same in Christ there is no Jew nor a gentile but only Gods children
my point is if Paul wrote or Peter wrote or John wrote everything applies to the one church they we’re founding
“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
The apostles are all equal Paul sent to gentiles Was because of convenience paul was a Roman citizen by birth , this gave him many practical advantages to the Jewish non citizens of rome and Paul’s citizenship was by birth this meant things like when in turmoil or hazard Paul could appeal to Caesar and save his life the others were Jews only not as Paul a duel citizen had less freedoms and advantages outside Jerusalem
because Paul had been connected already with gentiles it made perfect sense to send him outward having those advantages also of education writing also his establishments in the Roman society and knowledge of those areas practically Paul eas best suited to head to the gentiles but it’s really important that we actually take Paul’s mystery to heart here
“For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:”
Ephesians 3:1, 3, 5-6 KJV
gentiles are being brought into the gospel the same one preached to Jew forst now gentiles are included there’s no difference anymore that’s Old Testament
the point bekng when people are explaining a gospel for Jews and another for gentiles they are missing the whole point of one shepherd and one flock gentile and Jew one people under God
The mystery is that gentiles are now included in Christ by the gospel with Jews who Jesus forst preached the gospel to and then after he sent believers out preaching it to everyone
Paul’s a great man but he’s not special among the apostles they are steam spreading the gospel the message is for us all no matter which apostle of Christ said it it’s really a red herring