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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
How many parts of scripture show 3 1/2 years or 7 years of a man of sin given power and authority or anything else?
Why do you need to see the word covenant? All you need to see is who confirms this covenant. And what he will do. Jesus speaks of this in matt 24. And tells us when we see this what would happen. What more proof do you need?
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
One does not need to see a covenant. All they have to see is that daniel is told something will happen by a future leader where he confirms a covenant for 7 years. then in the middle he commits an abomination in the temple. Then for the last 3 1/2 year all hell breaks lose. Just like many parts of scripture says it will. This is all we need to know.
jesus mentions the abomination. the covenant is all a part of this 7 year period.
The prince confirms a 7 year covenant. then in the middle commits the abomination. the abomination happens in the middle of the covenant. thus the covenant is there, whether it is mentioned or not.
Brother Lao,Matt.24 & Mark 13 both quote part of the verse in Daniel 9:27, so we know that, that is what it's talking about. Once again remember I said and even EG I believe stated also that the original hebrew script say "he made a firm covenant" It doesn't even say confirm, so when they translated it into english it is incorrect. Also as stated prior, Yeshua never put an end to sacrifice and offering. No where in scripture does it say He did. I only fulfilled the sacrifice for sin unto death as it states.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
the word translated confirm
1504 גָּבַר (gā∙ḇǎr): v.; ≡ Str 1396, 1399; TWOT 310a—1. LN 88.206–88.222 (hitp) show oneself arrogant, vaunt oneself, be overbearing, i.e., have attitudes and actions showing hubris and pride (Job 15:25; 36:9+); 2. LN 34.22–34.30 (hif) confirm, i.e., to establish a relationship with a person or group (Da 9:27+); 3. LN 16 (qal) rise, flood, i.e., have a mass swell or rise higher (Ge 7:18, 19, 20, 24+), note: as a non-linear movement of water; 4. LN 21.1–21.5 (qal) overwhelmed, inundated, formally, flooded over, i.e., be in a state of danger, as a figurative extension of being flooded over by a mass of water (Ps 65:4[EB 3]+); 5. LN 78.28–78.39 (qal) be greater, be more, i.e., have a degree greater that is normal, compared to another point on a scale (Ge 49:26; 2Sa 1:23; Job 21:7; Ps 103:11; 117:2+); (piel) be greater, be more, (Ecc 10:10+); 6. LN 76 (qal) be strong, i.e., be in a state of strength and ability (1Ch 5:2+); (piel) strengthen, i.e., make an object mighty and forceful (Zec 10:6, 12+), note: in context, apparently military strength, see also domain LN 74; 7. LN 39.52–39.61 (qal) win over, have a victory over (Ex 17:11; 1Sa 2:9; 2Sa 11:23+); (hif) triumph over, i.e., make a conquest and so a victory over an enemy (Isa 42:13+); 8. LN 33.387–33.403 unit: (hif) לָשֹׁון גָּבַר (lā∙šôn gā∙ḇǎr) slander, formally, be strong of tongue, i.e., speak in attacking ways such as slander and insult (Ps 12:5[EB 4]+)
Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
Of major note here. In the defenition, the word confirm means to "establish a relationship" When you establish something. you are starting something new. You don't establish something that is already in place. It has already been established!
1504 גָּבַר (gā∙ḇǎr): v.; ≡ Str 1396, 1399; TWOT 310a—1. LN 88.206–88.222 (hitp) show oneself arrogant, vaunt oneself, be overbearing, i.e., have attitudes and actions showing hubris and pride (Job 15:25; 36:9+); 2. LN 34.22–34.30 (hif) confirm, i.e., to establish a relationship with a person or group (Da 9:27+); 3. LN 16 (qal) rise, flood, i.e., have a mass swell or rise higher (Ge 7:18, 19, 20, 24+), note: as a non-linear movement of water; 4. LN 21.1–21.5 (qal) overwhelmed, inundated, formally, flooded over, i.e., be in a state of danger, as a figurative extension of being flooded over by a mass of water (Ps 65:4[EB 3]+); 5. LN 78.28–78.39 (qal) be greater, be more, i.e., have a degree greater that is normal, compared to another point on a scale (Ge 49:26; 2Sa 1:23; Job 21:7; Ps 103:11; 117:2+); (piel) be greater, be more, (Ecc 10:10+); 6. LN 76 (qal) be strong, i.e., be in a state of strength and ability (1Ch 5:2+); (piel) strengthen, i.e., make an object mighty and forceful (Zec 10:6, 12+), note: in context, apparently military strength, see also domain LN 74; 7. LN 39.52–39.61 (qal) win over, have a victory over (Ex 17:11; 1Sa 2:9; 2Sa 11:23+); (hif) triumph over, i.e., make a conquest and so a victory over an enemy (Isa 42:13+); 8. LN 33.387–33.403 unit: (hif) לָשֹׁון גָּבַר (lā∙šôn gā∙ḇǎr) slander, formally, be strong of tongue, i.e., speak in attacking ways such as slander and insult (Ps 12:5[EB 4]+)
Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
Of major note here. In the defenition, the word confirm means to "establish a relationship" When you establish something. you are starting something new. You don't establish something that is already in place. It has already been established!
L
Laodicea
Guest
Yes there is no covenant mention in Mark 13 & Matthew 24 but there is for Christ
Luke 1:67-72
(67) And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
(68) Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
(69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
(70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
(71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
(72) To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Romans 15:8
(8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Galatians 3:16-17
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
The desolation was not done by Christ but by their enemies because of the sins of Israel
Luke 19:43-44
(43) For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
(44) And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Matthew 23:31-38
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
(33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
(35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
(37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Matthew 24:15
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Christ confirmed the covenant and because they rejected it God allowed their enemies to destroy the city as in the time of the Babylonian captivity which is also mentioned in Daniel 9
Daniel 9:3-7
(3) And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
(4) And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
(5) We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:
(6) Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
(7) O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
What is mentioned in these verses is repeated in the time of Christ
Luke 1:67-72
(67) And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
(68) Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
(69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
(70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
(71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
(72) To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Romans 15:8
(8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Galatians 3:16-17
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
The desolation was not done by Christ but by their enemies because of the sins of Israel
Luke 19:43-44
(43) For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
(44) And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Matthew 23:31-38
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
(33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
(35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
(37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Matthew 24:15
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Christ confirmed the covenant and because they rejected it God allowed their enemies to destroy the city as in the time of the Babylonian captivity which is also mentioned in Daniel 9
Daniel 9:3-7
(3) And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
(4) And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
(5) We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:
(6) Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
(7) O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
What is mentioned in these verses is repeated in the time of Christ
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yes there is no covenant mention in Mark 13 & Matthew 24 but there is for Christ
Luke 1:67-72
(67) And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
(68) Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
(69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
(70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
(71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
(72) To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Romans 15:8
(8) Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Galatians 3:16-17
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
The desolation was not done by Christ but by their enemies because of the sins of Israel
Luke 19:43-44
(43) For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
(44) And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
Matthew 23:31-38
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
(32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
(33) Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
(34) Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
(35) That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
(36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
(37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Matthew 24:15
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Christ confirmed the covenant and because they rejected it God allowed their enemies to destroy the city as in the time of the Babylonian captivity which is also mentioned in Daniel 9
Daniel 9:3-7
(3) And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
(4) And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
(5) We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:
(6) Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
(7) O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
What is mentioned in these verses is repeated in the time of Christ
your right. Jesus did not commit the abomination. thus you answered your own question. the one who confirmed the covenant is the same as the one who commited the abomination.
L
Laodicea
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
then Christ did not confirm the covenant. the one who confirms the covenant is the one who commits the abomination. this is clear in the passage. the abomination is made 3 1/2 years after the covenant is confirmed. either way Unless this happened 3 1/2 years after Christ's death, it is not Christ who confirmed the covenant.
L
Laodicea
Guest
Here's what the Jewish Bible says:
Daniel 9:27
He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator."
This language seems to clearly draw a distinction between the One who makes the strong covenant and the one who is the desolator. Not the same person.
Daniel 9:27
He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator."
This language seems to clearly draw a distinction between the One who makes the strong covenant and the one who is the desolator. Not the same person.
L
Laodicea
Guest
Daniel 9:24 KJV
(24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
