T
Tintin
Guest
I struggle to believe anything Cobus says because he believes Christians are meant to be sinless.
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M
MidniteWelder
Guest
Hello Tintin,
What does this verse mean to you?
"And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."
What should it mean?
What did Jesus mean?
And lastly,
How often did Jesus specify to sin after first coming to him and being forgiven of our past before continuing in him with our present?
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No one is saved in a moment,Salvation is a long life process.The Theosis as Holy Fathers call it.
Theosis ("deification," "divinization") is the process of a worshiper becoming free of hamartía ("missing the mark"), being united with God, beginning in this life and later consummated in bodily resurrection. For Orthodox Christians, Théōsis (see 2 Pet. 1:4) is salvation. Théōsis assumes that humans from the beginning are made to share in the Life or Nature of the all-Holy Trinity. Therefore, an infant or an adult worshiper is saved from the state of unholiness (hamartía — which is not to be confused with hamártēma “sin”) for participation in the Life (zōé, not simply bíos) of the Trinity — which is everlasting.
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Tintin
Guest
Oh, great, Midnite. Here we go. So you believe you're without sin? Why then does the Bible only mention that we'll find sinless completion when Jesus returns a second time and gives us new bodies?
That verse is talking about walking with God. Having faith in him, trusting in Christ and living accordingly. Jesus understands that we will continue to sin in this life but he wants us to repent of it and seek him. We will fall but he's commanding us to not actively sin, to not let sin be our god.
That verse is talking about walking with God. Having faith in him, trusting in Christ and living accordingly. Jesus understands that we will continue to sin in this life but he wants us to repent of it and seek him. We will fall but he's commanding us to not actively sin, to not let sin be our god.
K
Kerry
Guest
Wrong and I will be bold enough to say your wrong. Read it again. you saved the moment you ask Jesus in your heart, but sanctification is a life long process. Job, Genesis, Corinthians, Romans, Do you need more.
Kerry agin a MAJOR error in your asumption that you get saved BEFORE the cross.... Here is the proof....
Jesus said the world will hate us for His name sake... NOT FOR SIN IN OUR LIVES ....FOR HIS SAKE... THat is holiness...God's Name is not for sin it is for holiness....
Now look even if the world hate you because you sinneth NOT! you are still to endure FURTHER to be saved... You preach a gospel that God saves sinners then they are still sinners... That is pure BLASHEMY... God saves sinners to be PERFECT MEN IN HIMSELF...
Wow! How can you say a sinner is saved? That is just touching on evil talk... So God's salvation is WORTHLESS? NEVER...
Kerry how can you argue with this?
1 John 3: 8... He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Every SAVED PERSON DOES NOT SIN? Even if 10 billion sinners say they are saved... it is still a lie... SINNERS ARE OF THE DEVIL.... PERIOD....
Jesus said the world will hate us for His name sake... NOT FOR SIN IN OUR LIVES ....FOR HIS SAKE... THat is holiness...God's Name is not for sin it is for holiness....
Now look even if the world hate you because you sinneth NOT! you are still to endure FURTHER to be saved... You preach a gospel that God saves sinners then they are still sinners... That is pure BLASHEMY... God saves sinners to be PERFECT MEN IN HIMSELF...
Wow! How can you say a sinner is saved? That is just touching on evil talk... So God's salvation is WORTHLESS? NEVER...
Kerry how can you argue with this?
1 John 3: 8... He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Every SAVED PERSON DOES NOT SIN? Even if 10 billion sinners say they are saved... it is still a lie... SINNERS ARE OF THE DEVIL.... PERIOD....
This what have we started here is much deeper and complex then any theory which u ever heard.Maybe i have to start thread about this.
Delija, you are closer to the Truth that Kerry but you have to know that we only DIE ONCE....
So let em show you how long the life is before we are saved... We are sinning men, and the moment we start to follow Jesus with the cross, we start nailing the sinner to the cross... when the sinner is DEAD, then that person that followed Jesus all the way to SINNERDEATH.. OLD MAN DEAD, ALL SIN REPENTED FROM... that person God will declare as a SAINT...Washed white as snow, even if he was red as crimson. Now washed white, that person is as PURE as God but not HOLY YET.. NOT GLORIFID YET... The old has passed but the NEW STILL HAS TO COME...
When God takes (allows that person into HIIM) that pure spirit and soul and he puts HIS SPIRIT AND SOUL in the FLESH OF THE PERSON, He also PUTS HIMSELF IN THAT PERSON... NOW GOD AND THAT PERSON IS ONE AS GOD AND JESUS WAS...
That is the ones that are IN CHRIST... THERE IS NO PERSON IN CHRIST... NOT ONE!
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Tintin
Guest
Right on the money. Salvation begins the moment you accept Christ's grace (where you're covered by his robes of righteousness - his bloody sacrifice). Sanctification is the process where the Holy Spirit works on your sinful humanity to transform you to be more and more like Christ. Sanctification is a daily struggle but it's a work-in-progress.
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.” (Psalm 82:6)
This is a verse that most Protestants do not underline in their Bibles. What on earth does it mean—“you are gods”? Doesn’t our faith teach that there is only one God, in three Persons? How can human beings be gods?
And all of you are children of the Most High.” (Psalm 82:6)
This is a verse that most Protestants do not underline in their Bibles. What on earth does it mean—“you are gods”? Doesn’t our faith teach that there is only one God, in three Persons? How can human beings be gods?
Kerry show me ONE person that accepted JEsus into his heart...JUST ONE! Show me the VERSE.... There is NO SUCH PERSON IN THE BIBLE, and NEVER ONE THAT EVER COULD DO THAT....
You do not do the ACCEPTING... GOD DOES.... So there MAJOR FLAW IN YOUR DOCTRINE... <MAJOR///
You do not do the ACCEPTING... GOD DOES.... So there MAJOR FLAW IN YOUR DOCTRINE... <MAJOR///
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MidniteWelder
Guest
We will fall if we're determined to self fulfill ourselves to fall, that is certain
yet did Christ himself ever once say he wants or expects us to fall?
or did he state otherwise?
Saying we may fall is more a statement of fact in that it has happened.
Not a statement of what Gods asks of us.
I dont believe its so much that Cobus believes Christians are meant to be sinless
But more that Jesus himself believes Christians are
MEANT.......
to be sinless
Yet it is that, our very sin which attempts to justify any transgression against God as allowable.
Does God expect us to sin, or does he say he will provide a way out of temptation so that we will not be tempted more than we can bear?
And then leaves the decision up to us.
Did you ever ask Gods permission first to sin if you feel it is allowable,
Or if not is it better to sin without Gods permission?
Lastly again, Did Christ not ask, but Tell us, to go and sin no more.
thats what we should be striving for in our obedience to him.
Im not attacking you, just asking you to think a little deeper upon how Christ worded what he said
without compromise.
Yes we are granted mercy and grace, but which is more noble?
To take it for granted or to not have to contend with God and force him to use it.
What if true and complete obedience is more what he expects of us.
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Delija God's have choices.... we have choices... Only ONE GOD has a PERFCT WILL.... GOD. EVEN SATAN had a choice, and he chose wrong.... that is why SATAN can be the FATHER of lies and murder and evil and sin... ALL who sin are GODS IN SATAN,,, and all who are made GODLY by GOD, are GODLY MEN OF GOD/..
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Tintin
Guest
gods - saints, favoured by God, sustained by Christ and his righteous sacrifice. Not that we're little gods (as in divine beings) or some such bollocks. That's Mormonism.
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Kerry
Guest
Cobus man I love you, have ever considered the cross. I know you love God. that is without question I would love to hunt with you. but if that hunt showed my righteousness. It would not be good enough for God. No matter what I do it is not good enough. If you my son, are good enough then Christ died in vain. My friend if you can be perfect. Then Christ died in vain. What will you say about the cross. It was your aftermath. something that brought you to grace and now have no need of it.
I love you Cobus, But you still need the cross.
I love you Cobus, But you still need the cross.
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.” (Psalm 82:6)
This is a verse that most Protestants do not underline in their Bibles. What on earth does it mean—“you are gods”? Doesn’t our faith teach that there is only one God, in three Persons? How can human beings be gods?
In the Orthodox Church, this concept is neither new nor startling. It even has a name: theosis. Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature. Also referred to as deification, divinization, or illumination, it is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. (Theosis and deification may be used interchangeably. We will avoid the term divinization, since it could be misread for divination, which is another thing altogether!)
Many Protestants, and even some Roman Catholics, might find the Orthodox concept of theosis unnerving. Especially when they read a quote such as this one from St. Athanasius: “God became man so that men might become gods,” they immediately fear an influence of Eastern mysticism from Hinduism or pantheism.
But such an influence could not be further from the Orthodox understanding. The human person does not merge with some sort of impersonal divine force, losing individual identity or consciousness. Intrinsic divinity is never ascribed to humankind or any part of the creation, and no created thing is confused with the being of God. Most certainly, humans are not accorded ontological equality with God, nor are they considered to merge or co-mingle with the being of God as He is in His essence.
In fact, to safeguard against any sort of misunderstanding of this kind, Orthodox theologians have been careful to distinguish between God’s essence and His energies. God is incomprehensible in His essence. But God, who is love, allows us to know Him through His divine energies, those actions whereby He reveals Himself to us in creation, providence, and redemption. It is through the divine energies, therefore, that we achieve union with God.
And all of you are children of the Most High.” (Psalm 82:6)
This is a verse that most Protestants do not underline in their Bibles. What on earth does it mean—“you are gods”? Doesn’t our faith teach that there is only one God, in three Persons? How can human beings be gods?
In the Orthodox Church, this concept is neither new nor startling. It even has a name: theosis. Theosis is the understanding that human beings can have real union with God, and so become like God to such a degree that we participate in the divine nature. Also referred to as deification, divinization, or illumination, it is a concept derived from the New Testament regarding the goal of our relationship with the Triune God. (Theosis and deification may be used interchangeably. We will avoid the term divinization, since it could be misread for divination, which is another thing altogether!)
Many Protestants, and even some Roman Catholics, might find the Orthodox concept of theosis unnerving. Especially when they read a quote such as this one from St. Athanasius: “God became man so that men might become gods,” they immediately fear an influence of Eastern mysticism from Hinduism or pantheism.
But such an influence could not be further from the Orthodox understanding. The human person does not merge with some sort of impersonal divine force, losing individual identity or consciousness. Intrinsic divinity is never ascribed to humankind or any part of the creation, and no created thing is confused with the being of God. Most certainly, humans are not accorded ontological equality with God, nor are they considered to merge or co-mingle with the being of God as He is in His essence.
In fact, to safeguard against any sort of misunderstanding of this kind, Orthodox theologians have been careful to distinguish between God’s essence and His energies. God is incomprehensible in His essence. But God, who is love, allows us to know Him through His divine energies, those actions whereby He reveals Himself to us in creation, providence, and redemption. It is through the divine energies, therefore, that we achieve union with God.
T
Tintin
Guest
I'm not advocating cheap grace. I'm all for showing obedience to Christ for who he is and what he's done for us, but it's done out of thanks to Him. We shouldn't strive to sin but when we sin, we fall, we repent, God picks us up again and he forgives us.
Tintin if the water gets too deep shout I have a spare life jacket.... Do not start with your usual judgment, try to see God actually does make saints and then He perfects them as He says in Eph4:11 to 13...
Tintin if it is you on your avatar, you look like a but of a too wise young man, maybe you should just forget the human wisdom and see the scripture as a child... I did, it made me SEE GOD...
Tinnie, read Eph 4:11 to 13 in the KJV. Slow and concentrate only on what is written... Look God says he makes the SAINT, unto A PERFECT MAN... WOW!!!
Tintin if it is you on your avatar, you look like a but of a too wise young man, maybe you should just forget the human wisdom and see the scripture as a child... I did, it made me SEE GOD...
Tinnie, read Eph 4:11 to 13 in the KJV. Slow and concentrate only on what is written... Look God says he makes the SAINT, unto A PERFECT MAN... WOW!!!
K