The curse of the law

[slave]

Love is a summary of the law's requirements. So then, a motivational approach to ethics — like the normative approach — declares the current validity of God's law. Finally, the consequential approach to ethics evaluates actions and attitudes according to their beneficial results or comparative lack thereof. Christ teaches us in His word that the primary goal of our moral behavior is the kingdom of God; when we make it that, every temporal and eternal blessing will be ours. The righteousness of this kingdom is defined by the law of the King, and thus Scripture promises that obedience to the law of God will eventuate in outstanding blessings for our selves, our neighbors, and our society. In short, the law of God was revealed for our good. Therefore, the validity of God's law has been substantiated in previous studies by the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith and by all of the major perspectives on ethics. The present authority of the Lord's commandments is inescapable of any honest reading of God's word.

God’s earthly blessings were dependent upon Israel’s obedience to His Law. If His people forsook the Law, then earthly cursings were promised:

The law itself is not a curse. The law by itself isn't a blessing either. The blessings and cursings, defined as consequences, are exacted according to the peoples reaction for or against it. Do the blessings of the law mean salvation is ours through obedience to the law? No, because salvation unto eternal life cannot be attained by human capability. Nevertheless, our obedience to the Spiritual persuasion of the law (after we are saved from eternal death) shows our love for the One who gave it, not by works, but by seeing the personage behind the One who gave it. We love God because He is attractive to us.

In my response to this article I simply say close but no cigar!.......Why do you tarry to do anything? You are dead to God forever, period!!...If God only sees Jesus and not you, as you enter the pearly gates, why do you bother even picking up the law or not? Regardless of it's value found in Christ? Why are you not seeking the Lord Himself with every energy in your being? This is the argument I see you missing.You Have the Law value down, the entry into Heaven down. The serving the Lord down. But the one achilles heal is the way you serve the Lord. How to serve..., the meaning of victory itself.... The issue is "the Spirit of the Lord", vs. "Your soul exercising the will of the Spirit of God, even tho you merit the existence of God's Spirit." . God doesn't see it, He only sees the Lord... His efforts, His victories, His judgements, His wisdom.

You need to be found in Him, literally, not figuratively. And then and only then we do the work of God, and fulfill the Law, that Christ does in us, lest any man should boast!

 

[Elin]

Love is a summary of the law's requirements. So then, a motivational approach to ethics — like the normative approach — declares the current validity of God's law. Finally, the consequential approach to ethics evaluates actions and attitudes according to their beneficial results or comparative lack thereof. Christ teaches us in His word that the primary goal of our moral behavior is the kingdom of God; when we make it that, every temporal and eternal blessing will be ours. The righteousness of this kingdom is defined by the law of the King, and thus Scripture promises that obedience to the law of God will eventuate in outstanding blessings for our selves, our neighbors, and our society. In short, the law of God was revealed for our good. Therefore, the validity of God's law has been substantiated in previous studies by the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith and by all of the major perspectives on ethics. The present authority of the Lord's commandments is inescapable of any honest reading of God's word.

God’s earthly blessings were dependent upon Israel’s obedience to His Law. If His people forsook the Law, then earthly cursings were promised:

The law itself is not a curse. The law by itself isn't a blessing either. The blessings and cursings, defined as consequences, are exacted according to the peoples reaction for or against it. Do the blessings of the law mean salvation is ours through obedience to the law? No, because salvation unto eternal life cannot be attained by human capability. Nevertheless, our obedience to the Spiritual persuasion of the law (after we are saved from eternal death) shows our love for the One who gave it, not by works, but by seeing the personage behind the One who gave it. We love God because He is attractive to us.

Keeping in mind the above is the obsolete old covenant (Heb 8:13).

Those in Christ are in a new covenant (Lk 22:20), far superior to the old covenant
because it is founded on better promises (Heb 8:6).

It's a no-brainer. . .

 

[Elin]

God tells me that the Laws of Moses are Holy, pure and worthy to be around for longer than I can comprehend. He says not a stroke of the pen will be erased of it's value and efficacy, The Law itself is indeed not a curse I agree. But to live by the Law as the plan to heaven has now been deemed a curse by the giving of the Law itself, in the inherent nature of it's conclusion found in us.. For as I tried to illustrate; it has changed the merits of man's attempts and claimed sins boundaries. The new issued decree lets us see the totality of our old self's demise, and futility.

After graciously allowing us to see the merits of this conclusion over an introduction to the glimpse of Gods will, God sent in the closing argument to change. A change Satan hadn't even banked on in the sacrifice it meant must happen. The following of the laws for Salvation was cursed and replaced with the victory of death. Oh death where is your victory, where is your sting?!! The death of Adam traded for the life in Christ only.

The issue isn't about the Law's curse or not curse. It is about the way to the Father. Blessings do come from the Law, it is Holy. But not enough to cross that bridge from hell's final destiny, to Heaven. This is the issue, we all are trying to secure.... And the cross is the answer, not by trying to build up or tear down the Law. It has been rendered meaningless to the ultimate goal. I except the Holy Laws as Gods, and in them there is much blessing. But not by me doing them at all. Only Him who died for my sins on a slab of wood with blood drenched body parts that could hardly be recognized as human. Let's not forget that part either. And let's not pity it. For God counted the cost and so did Jesus, and offered it to us, let say thank you not oh, they shouldn't have killed the savior, and remain in sorrow. The one powerful enough to change the contract of death, from Adam to the new contract of life and eternal Joy..

What pure gospel. . . and joy and blessing to my spirit are these words of truth. . .

We need to stop hounding the Law..If we were to be talking about Christ as much as the Law in here we would have people touched just simply by the name mentioned that many times.. This is something that hasn't been written much in here let me re-state some things too:

Fruits: There are many fruits that come from the life of Christ. Here are a few.....Of course Galations 5:22-23.

Love, Joy, peace, forbearance, Kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. But there are more: Following the Word of God, Prayer, Obedience Fellowship, Stewardship, humility to Christ's position of authority, The list of Characteristics I have labelled prior to this inclusion already floating in this Forum, etc..We need to be, in my opinion, soaking our eyes on these things, our minds on these things, and our hearts adopting these things.

I simply look to the prize: One day all these things of earth will be gone, as if it had never been...and when we're standing without it all, what in us will be seen? This is the question I hold to myself. For Worldly wealth or service to God even has no real value in and of itself, nor character to strive for, for we are nothing when all is revealed, if we lack the fruit of the Lord.

I'd rather have the qualities of God, the fruit of His Spirit inside, for it's His Character that will remain when we enter eternal life. So I press on to finish the work set out in me in Christ, to obtain the important things of life and tarry, no longer, for the temporal. For this is gold I can take with me!

What a wonderful Sunday lesson, feeding the hungry faithful with true spiritual meat.

He who has ears that can hear, let him hear.

 

[Elin]

In my response to this article I simply say close but no cigar!.......Why do you tarry to do anything? You are dead to God forever, period!!...If God only sees Jesus and not you, as you enter the pearly gates, why do you bother even picking up the law or not? Regardless of it's value found in Christ? Why are you not seeking the Lord Himself with every energy in your being? This is the argument I see you missing.You Have the Law value down, the entry into Heaven down. The serving the Lord down. But the one achilles heal is the way you serve the Lord. How to serve..., the meaning of victory itself.... The issue is "the Spirit of the Lord", vs. "Your soul exercising the will of the Spirit of God, even tho you merit the existence of God's Spirit." . God doesn't see it, He only sees the Lord... His efforts, His victories, His judgements, His wisdom.

How do we merit the existence of God's Spirit?

You need to be found in Him, literally, not figuratively. And then and only then we do the work of God, and fulfill the Law, that Christ does in us, lest any man should boast!

"Found in him" as one was found in the city of refuge, safe from the avenger of death.

 

[just-me]

Keeping in mind the above is the obsolete old covenant (Heb 8:13).

Those in Christ are in a new covenant (Lk 22:20), far superior to the old covenant
because it is founded on better promises (Heb 8:6).

It's a no-brainer. . .

The word "all" can be taken as "some". That train of thought is not brainier.

"All" scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Last time I read about the Old and New Covenants I realized that the Old Covenant was inspired of God along with the New Covenant. Making the Old obsolete according to man's doctrine this scripture would read; Only the most recent "scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" The physical temple worship with its ordinances have been abolished, but their spiritual significance remains in Christ Jesus. Both Hebrews 8 and 9 refer to the Old Covenant priesthood. That's a no brainer for those that esteem all of God''s word that He has made available to us. I understand that the carnal mind cannot be subject to this truth.

 

[just-me]

In my response to this article I simply say close but no cigar!.......Why do you tarry to do anything? You are dead to God forever, period!!...If God only sees Jesus and not you, as you enter the pearly gates, why do you bother even picking up the law or not? Regardless of it's value found in Christ? Why are you not seeking the Lord Himself with every energy in your being? This is the argument I see you missing.You Have the Law value down, the entry into Heaven down. The serving the Lord down. But the one achilles heal is the way you serve the Lord. How to serve..., the meaning of victory itself.... The issue is "the Spirit of the Lord", vs. "Your soul exercising the will of the Spirit of God, even tho you merit the existence of God's Spirit." . God doesn't see it, He only sees the Lord... His efforts, His victories, His judgements, His wisdom.

You need to be found in Him, literally, not figuratively. And then and only then we do the work of God, and fulfill the Law, that Christ does in us, lest any man should boast!

Think about a relationship with husband a wife. They are to be of the same mind, but they are still individuals. Relate this to the relationship with the church and Christ, for Paul calls this relationship in likeness and parallel as being a mystery. If the Husband is attractive to the wife, she sees his true character because she relates her own character to that of her husband. If her life is that which her husband can complement (not by his human capability but just by who he is), she will be like minded in complementing her husband's personage that defines him as the individual he is. If the church is complemented by Christ according to their life style, they will also do the same in return by complementing Christ, and Christ then is seen through the church. It isn't what we say, or our given capabilities that is so important, it's who we are in relation to the one we love, and experiencing a growing attractiveness founded in love given and received continuously.
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[Elin]

Keeping in mind the above is the obsolete old covenant (Heb 8:13).

Those in Christ are in a new covenant (Lk 22:20), far superior to the old covenant because it is founded on better promises (Heb 8:6).

It's a no-brainer. . .

The word "all" can be taken as "some". That train of thought is not brainier.

"All" scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2Tim 3:16). Last time I read about the Old and New Covenants I realized that the Old Covenant was inspired of God along with the New Covenant.
Making the Old Covenant obsolete according to man's doctrine

You're kidding, right? . .Heb 8:13 is man's doctrine?

Wow. . .

Setting the Scriptures against themselves (2Tim 3:16 against Heb 8:6, 13), among other things,
shows one's misunderstanding of the NT, for God does not contradict himself.

Wow. . .

 

[slave]

Think about a relationship with husband a wife. They are to be of the same mind [ As in Christ minded?] [Not their own mindedness right?!! For this would be impossible] , yet you would have to be found in Christ to have that Christ-mindedness correct? but they are still individuals. Relate this to the relationship with the church and Christ, for Paul calls this relationship in likeness and parallel as being a [mystery- oh good more confusion to highlight the points that are contradictive to the clear outlined points...go on!]. If the Husband is [attractive?] to the wife, she sees his true character because she relates her own character to that of her husband,[ why again are they now relating their own personal Characters, found in the nature of sin? again?]. If her life is that which her husband can complement (not by his human capability but just by who he is] [despite scripture that says, we will be known who we are based on the fruit of who we are...], she will be like minded in complementing her husband's personage that [defines him as the individual he is] [So in a marriage it is the wife relationship to himself that defines who he is as a person...period?. If the church is complemented by Christ according to their life style, they will also do the same in return by complementing Christ, and Christ then is seen through the church. It isn't what we say, or our given capabilities that is so important, it's who we are in relation to the one we love, and experiencing a growing attractiveness founded in love given and received continuously.
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Here we go again, So you have given an outline again. The first Husband/ Wife thing was confusing to me, I will by-pass that, but you say The church is now the more important element in the picture to Christ and the church, even tho you state, all scripture, new testament and old alike are prudent to study. Which I agree by the way if kept in context of correct interpretation.

But now we have the Church being complimented by Christ, so the issue is the church, despite scripture saying it is lead by Christ as Head of the Church.. The student then is greater than it's master? You see where I am going don't you?!!..

Jesus says , none is greater than their master. Then you compare Human lifestyle, not found in Christ, as complimenting Christ's perfect lifestyle, and resulting it in the compliment TO Christ coming from Humans performances...Did I get that correct? And then you put the cherry on top of the sundae by saying It is then after humans compliment Christ that Christ Himself is seen in the Church. Basically saying not by His example at all, but by Humans effort faking it as Christ's, and then you go on to label this all as beneficial to both us and Christ. Hmmmm that is a mess!

You go on to say it is who we are in relationship to who we love...Well my life can testify to that...as a christian all my life full of grace and power in prayer and understanding I gave that up and for 13 years in my marriage...I still loved God a lot, but not enough to put Him center in my life, anymore..... Results?!!.....sullen ineffectiveness. Fruitless. So show me the books of examples of these people that have the fruit of the Spirit and are doing it on their own in relationship to the one they love but do not surrender to, Nay,Die for. For you will notice scripture does not say fruits [plural] it says fruit, which then lists a ton...how is that suppose to happen when if you do it yourself you have to individually pick each one up and perform it religiously to succeed? For a apple tree never makes pears.

I could go on with the ...growing attractiveness from God to us [concept],.... He first loved us scripture says, so He occasionally updates our value? NO! He has predestined our value and purpose ,and created us Himself--in His own image to fellowship with us. ...He doesn't make junk. Or judge us by our performances as you indicate...For once you find something dead, you stop evaluating it.....Oh look bobby a dead fish lets come backing an hour and see if it has gotten less ripped in half!! .it is a mess you have offered me to live by. This is not a God or Jesus that is a big deal, in this picture you paint... It is just a trying God and Jesus. verily better than us, in some examples of yours not quit as good as us.

I have tried to explain the best I can...in Gods Word... I am left with...WOW, to this message. What a mess.

Bottom line this is false teachings..If I asked you to pray over it with a blank slate before God and a willingness to find out His will on it..and to clarify the details .....would you be able to do that? If so,I invite us both to. We can see if change in either of us procures a result...I'm in.! Let the fruit of the Spirit be the result in us both...in Jesus name I pray even that prayer too., Amen. I think the scriptures for us both are on the table...now let's just let the holy Spirit and all of Scripture balance out our conclusions.

 

[just-me]

Think about a relationship with husband a wife. They are to be of the same mind, but they are still individuals. Relate this to the relationship with the church and Christ, for Paul calls this relationship in likeness and parallel as being a mystery. If the Husband is attractive to the wife, she sees his true character because she relates her own character to that of her husband. If her life is that which her husband can complement (not by his human capability but just by who he is), she will be like minded in complementing her husband's personage that defines him as the individual he is. If the church is complemented by Christ according to their life style, they will also do the same in return by complementing Christ, and Christ then is seen through the church. It isn't what we say, or our given capabilities that is so important, it's who we are in relation to the one we love, and experiencing a growing attractiveness founded in love given and received continuously.
Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Interjection to start the mess.

As in Christ minded? Not their own mindedness right?!! For this would be impossible , yet you would have to be found in Christ to have that Christ-mindedness correct?

Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. Psalm 19:13
Keep back (slave) also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over him: then shall he be upright, and he shall be innocent from the great transgression.

Here we go again, So you have given an outline again. The first Husband/ Wife thing was confusing to me, I will by-pass that, but you say The church is now the more important element in the picture to Christ and the church, even tho you state, all scripture, new testament and old alike are prudent to study. Which I agree by the way if kept in context of correct interpretation.

Ephesians 5:21-22
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

But now we have the Church being complimented by Christ, so the issue is the church, despite scripture saying it is lead by Christ as Head of the Church.. The student then is greater than it's master? You see where I am going don't you?!!..

Hebrews 5:9-11
9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Jesus says , none is greater than their master. Then you compare Human lifestyle, not found in Christ, as complimenting Christ's perfect lifestyle, and resulting it in the compliment TO Christ coming from Humans performances...Did I get that correct? And then you put the cherry on top of the sundae by saying It is then after humans compliment Christ that Christ Himself is seen in the Church. Basically saying not by His example at all, but by Humans effort faking it as Christ's, and then you go on to label this all as beneficial to both us and Christ. Hmmmm that is a mess!

Ephesians 5:27
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

You go on to say it is who we are in relationship to who we love...Well my life can testify to that...as a christian all my life full of grace and power in prayer and understanding I gave that up and for 13 years in my marriage...I still loved God a lot, but not enough to put Him center in my life, anymore..... Results?!!.....sullen ineffectiveness. Fruitless. So show me the books of examples of these people that have the fruit of the Spirit and are doing it on their own in relationship to the one they love but do not surrender to, Nay,Die for. For you will notice scripture does not say fruits [plural] it says fruit, which then lists a ton...how is that suppose to happen when if you do it yourself you have to individually pick each one up and perform it religiously to succeed? For a apple tree never makes pears.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:16

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Philippians 2:5

I could go on with the ...growing attractiveness from God to us [concept],.... He first loved us scripture says, so He occasionally updates our value? NO! He has predestined our value and purpose ,and created us Himself--in His own image to fellowship with us. ...He doesn't make junk. Or judge us by our performances as you indicate...For once you find something dead, you stop evaluating it.....Oh look bobby a dead fish lets come backing an hour and see if it has gotten less ripped in half!! .it is a mess you have offered me to live by. This is not a God or Jesus that is a big deal, in this picture you paint... It is just a trying God and Jesus. verily better than us, in some examples of yours not quit as good as us.

From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.Ephesians 4:16

I have tried to explain the best I can...in Gods Word... I am left with...WOW, to this message. What a mess.

Bottom line this is false teachings..If I asked you to pray over it with a blank slate before God and a willingness to find out His will on it..and to clarify the details .....would you be able to do that? If so,I invite us both to. We can see if change in either of us procures a result...I'm in.! Let the fruit of the Spirit be the result in us both...in Jesus name I pray even that prayer too., Amen. I think the scriptures for us both are on the table...now let's just let the holy Spirit and all of Scripture balance out our conclusions.

Ephesians 5:28-32
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Sorry that you can't get it, and Here we go again
Hmmmm that is a mess!
it is a mess you have offered me to live by.
WOW, to this message. What a mess.

 

[just-me]

Question to slave

Quick question.

If this is the case how come blessings still come when Torah is followed?

I'm just curious on that.

I'm not going to say your wrong and people who follow Torah are right.

I just want to know a simple answer that question.

Colossians 3:16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

So Jesus doesn't want us to follow the Torah, but again this all hangs on what you mean by follow.

In Matt. 5:17-20...,Jesus makes an astounding claim. He came to not abolish, but fulfill the Law. The Prophets and Torah were but sketches of God's will. And He Himself will now be and teach us it's fullness. We are summoned to follow Jesus, not the Torah. In so doing we do everything the Torah set out to do, but even more. The life lived in victory found in Christ Jesus is the life of the new and improved Torah life. The more than conquering life.

It is the fruits we are to notice of our lives, what are they? There are two different lists...one for one Spirit of light, and one list for the Spirit of death. One cannot serve two masters.

Who gave the Torah? The Father himself, which sent His Son. Ye have not his word abiding in you. Search the scriptures. Jesus came in His Father's name. But if you believe not Moses' writings, (of the Father's Torah) how can you believe Jesus' words.
John 5:37-47King James Version (KJV)
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

In the above scripture, Jesus is speaking to Pharisees who made it a habit to mess up the truth of the Torah. It is a devised device of Satan. Through the Pharisees he distorted it, and if that doesn't work, he wants it to vanish away altogether. Both tactics are in play continuously.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matthew 23:23

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." John 8:28

"And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." John 12:50

For I am the Lord, I change not. Malachi 3:6a

"Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name." Deuteronomy 6:13 ( Jesus quoted the Torah to Satan 3 times from the book of Deuteronomy.)

"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. John 17:6

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12

"And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them." John 17:26

If these scriptures seem to be contradictory to your understanding, then you have the wrong interpretation.

We are summoned to follow Jesus, not the Torah. In so doing we do everything the Torah set out to do, but even more.

That statement is totally confusing, yet profoundly contrary to itself. If we intentionally reject what is fulfilled, there is nothing left to fulfill.

 

[pwrnJC]

Finally...this is made so simple, so easy to understand that it should settle a lot of 'age old' discrepancies. Thankyou for using your spiritual gift of of knowledg/wisdom on this topic. It is well researched and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

[slave]

Question to slave


Colossians 3:16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.



Who gave the Torah? The Father himself, which sent His Son. Ye have not his word abiding in you. Search the scriptures. Jesus came in His Father's name. But if you believe not Moses' writings, (of the Father's Torah) how can you believe Jesus' words.
John 5:37-47King James Version (KJV)
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

In the above scripture, Jesus is speaking to Pharisees who made it a habit to mess up the truth of the Torah. It is a devised device of Satan. Through the Pharisees he distorted it, and if that doesn't work, he wants it to vanish away altogether. Both tactics are in play continuously.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Matthew 23:23

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." John 8:28

"And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." John 12:50

For I am the Lord, I change not. Malachi 3:6a

"Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name." Deuteronomy 6:13 ( Jesus quoted the Torah to Satan 3 times from the book of Deuteronomy.)

"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. John 17:6

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12

"And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them." John 17:26

If these scriptures seem to be contradictory to your understanding, then you have the wrong interpretation.



That statement is totally confusing, yet profoundly contrary to itself. If we intentionally reject what is fulfilled, there is nothing left to fulfill.

God tells us that to many books there is no end...He also gives us Titus 3: 9-11 which says,

Avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the Law because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Scripture is clear on these matters...it is now time to believe in the truth to your software, of choice,in relationship to the computer of your mind....... Garbage in Garbage out......... if it is not accurate. consistency of correct answers if the software is accurate. The question is simple now ... Jesus asks .."Who do you say that I am?"......what do you stake your life on? I stake it on the premise I have stated, My name literally means... "God is my Judge"...and I trust based on the Holy Spirits testimony to me, that I can bank on this conclusion. But we will see won't we?!!

 

[Elin]

Here we go again, So you have given an outline again. The first Husband/ Wife thing was confusing to me, I will by-pass that, but
you say The church is now the more important element in the picture of Christ and the church, even tho you state, all scripture, new testament and old alike are prudent to study. Which I agree by the way if kept in context of correct interpretation.

But now we have the Church being complimented by Christ, so the issue is the church, despite scripture saying it is lead by Christ as Head of the Church.. The student then is greater than it's master? You see where I am going don't you?!!..

Yeah. . .this is where the wheels started coming off for me too. . .standing the word of God on its head.

Jesus says , none is greater than their master. Then you compare
Human lifestyle, not found in Christ, as complimenting Christ's perfect lifestyle, and resulting in the compliment TO Christ coming from Humans performances...Did I get that correct? And then you put the cherry on top of the sundae by saying It is
then after humans compliment Christ that Christ Himself is seen in the Church. Basically saying not by His example at all, but by Humans effort faking it as Christ's, and then you go on to label this all as beneficial to both us and Christ. Hmmmm that is a mess!

And that is where the wheels came completely off for me too.

You go on to say it is who we are in relationship to who we love...Well my life can testify to that...as a christian all my life full of grace and power in prayer and understanding I gave that up and for 13 years in my marriage...I still loved God a lot, but not enough to put Him center in my life, anymore..... Results?!!.....

sullen ineffectiveness. Fruitless. So show me the books of examples of these people that have the fruit of the Spirit and are doing it on their own in relationship to the one they love but do not surrender to, Nay,Die for. For you will notice scripture does not say fruits [plural] it says fruit, which then lists a ton...how is that supposed to happen when you do it yourself you have to individually pick each one up and perform it religiously to succeed? For a apple tree never makes pears.

I could go on with the ...growing attractiveness from God to us [concept],.... He first loved us scripture says, so He occasionally updates our value? NO! He has predestined our value and purpose ,and created us Himself--in His own image to fellowship with us. ...He doesn't make junk. Or judge us by our performances as you indicate...For once you find something dead, you stop evaluating it.....Oh look bobby a dead fish lets come back in an hour and see if it has gotten less ripped in half!! .it is a mess you have offered me to live by. This is not a God or Jesus that is a big deal, in this picture you paint... It is just a trying of God and Jesus. verily better than us, in some examples of yours not quit as good as us.

I have tried to explain the best I can...in Gods Word...
I am left with...WOW, to this message. What a mess.

Crazy-making. . .turning the word of God inside out. . .and from one who claims Heb 8:13 is man's doctrine.

Bottom line this is false teachings..If I asked you to pray over it with a blank slate before God and a willingness to find out His will on it..and to clarify the details .....would you be able to do that? If so,I invite us both to. We can see if change in either of us procures a result...I'm in.! Let the fruit of the Spirit be the result in us both...in Jesus name I pray even that prayer too., Amen. I think the scriptures for us both are on the table...now let's just let the holy Spirit and all of Scripture balance out our conclusions.

 

[Elin]

Scripture is clear on these matters...
it is now time to believe in the truth to your software, of choice,
in relationship to the computer of your mind.......

Garbage in Garbage out......... if it is not accurate.
consistency of correct answers if the software is accurate.

The question is simple now ... Jesus asks .."Who do you say that I am?"......what do you stake your life on?

I stake it on the premise I have stated, My name literally means... "God is my Judge"...and I trust based on the Holy Spirits testimony to me, that I can bank on this conclusion. But we will see won't we?!!

Time to fish. . .or cut bait. . .

 

[just-me]

God tells us that to many books there is no end...He also gives us Titus 3: 9-11 which says,

Avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the Law because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Scripture is clear on these matters...it is now time to believe in the truth to your software, of choice,in relationship to the computer of your mind....... Garbage in Garbage out......... if it is not accurate. consistency of correct answers if the software is accurate. The question is simple now ... Jesus asks .."Who do you say that I am?"......what do you stake your life on? I stake it on the premise I have stated, My name literally means... "God is my Judge"...and I trust based on the Holy Spirits testimony to me, that I can bank on this conclusion. But we will see won't we?!!

Yeah. . .this is where the wheels started coming off for me too. . .standing the word of God on its head.

And that is where the wheels came completely off for me too.

Crazy-making. . .turning the word of God inside out. . .and from one who claims Heb 8:13 is man's doctrine.
[/SIZE]

Whoops! Talk about presumptuous. Lug nuts should have been tight. LOL

 

[just-me]

Finally...this is made so simple, so easy to understand that it should settle a lot of 'age old' discrepancies. Thankyou for using your spiritual gift of of knowledg/wisdom on this topic. It is well researched and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

You are one that desires the truth I think. The truth is revealed only for those that truly desire to rightly divide the truth instead of wrongly dividing it. Those that invent what others say and distort the truth by separation of scriptures, picking and choosing what they want are comparable to a Pharisaical mindset. In those cases the discrepancies will never cease because there is an agenda of the adversary. If he cannot distort the Torah, he will try to get rid of it altogether. If he can succeed, then he will be able to finish his destructive plan for mankind.

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations." Revelation 13:7

 

[Grandpa]

If he cannot distort the Torah, he will try to get rid of it altogether. If he can succeed, then he will be able to finish his destructive plan for mankind.

1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

How sad for you.

How are the fruit of the Spirit Grown? Not by following Torah... By following the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Which of the fruit of the Spirit are against Torah?

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

That's weird, isn't it? Dead to the law so that I might live unto God.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

How do we overcome??? By following Torah?? nope.

Revelation 12:10-11

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

What does the Accuser use to accuse the brethren??

1 Corinthians 15:56-57

[SUP]56 [/SUP]The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

[SUP]57 [/SUP]But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you have your discerner turned on? lol

 

[Bowhunter2394]

How do we overcome??? By following Torah?? nope.
--------------------------------------------------------------

By the BLOOD OF THE LAMB, and by the Word of His Testimony! Indeed

by Grace thru Faith, not of works lest any man should boast, this NOT OF OUR SELVES, but Freely Given by the Father...thru Christ, the Father, the Porter, Jesus, the Door of the Sheep.... no other way.

 

[Elin]

Yeah. . .this is where the wheels started coming off for me too. . .standing the word of God on its head.

And that is where the wheels came completely off for me too.

Crazy-making. . .turning the word of God inside out. . .and from one who claims Heb 8:13 is man's doctrine.

Whoops! Talk about presumptuous. Lug nuts should have been tight. LOL

LOL! . .well I was thinkin' o' smaller wheels on a smaller vehicle. . .but actually this is more apt.

 

[slave]

The truth is revealed only for those that truly desire to rightly divide the truth instead of wrongly dividing it. Those that invent what others say and distort the truth by separation of scriptures, picking and choosing what they want are comparable to a Pharisaical mindset. In those cases the discrepancies will never cease because there is an agenda of the adversary. If he cannot distort the Torah, he will try to get rid of it altogether. If he can succeed, then he will be able to finish his destructive plan for mankind.

"Warn a divisive person, a second time....You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is ..........."SELF-CONDEMNED." ​Titus 3: 9-11. [Emphasized].