The Dark Night of the Soul?

[ocean]

Well here is a bit of different topic. I've heard of the 'dark night of the soul' and I am wondering what others think about it. I do have my own thoughts about it and have done some research, but my preference would be to simply discuss what others think about it. So in case you are not familiar with this concept, here is what it is according to some. It is actually a concept in Catholicism and has its roots in a poem written by a Spanish Carmelite monk and mystic. 'St. John of the Cross' wrote his eight stanza poem between 1577 -1579 and believed that this dark night was synonymous with travelling the 'narrow way' that Jesus spoke of (Matt. 7:13-14).

Some Protestant Christians have been using this phraseology to refer to questioning their salvation or even if God exists at all. It has also been used to describe in a generic way to refer to mental or emotional or even spiritual pain.

There does not seem to be an actual biblical reference to it in the sense that it is referred to by the author of the original poem, or the idea that this is a sort of right of passing for believers to go through in order to draw closer to God. So, just wondering what some of you might have to say about it or what you might think about it. If you want to learn more about it, there are plenty of references online.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, there have been topics and posts and poems and vids posted on this here before...

I really like this song by John Michael Talbot from Saint John of the Cross.

 

[Magenta]

There is also this Dark Night Of The Soul from a favourite artist of mine, Loreena McKennitt, from Saint John also, I believe.

 

[Magenta]

There does not seem to be an actual biblical reference to it in the sense that it is referred to by the author of the original poem, or the idea that this is a sort of right of passing for believers to go through in order to draw closer to God. So, just wondering what some of you might have to say about it or what you might think about it. If you want to learn more about it, there are plenty of references online.

Perhaps this Scripture is relevant:

Luke 22:31-32 ~ Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat...

 

[ocean]

Yes, there have been topics and posts and poems and vids posted on this here before...

I really like this song by John Michael Talbot from Saint John of the Cross.

I have a number of his cds but not this one. Had no idea that this topic was already pretty well covered on here. I came across someone who was emphasizing this because of circumstances in her own life and so just thought I would see what others thought about it.

 

[ocean]

Perhaps this Scripture is relevant:

Luke 22:31-32 ~ Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat...

I was actually thinking that maybe Jesus' experience in the garden of Gethsemane might kind of qualify. But your lovely illustrated scripture above is relevant also.

I'm not really sure where I stand on this either, so some discussion would be interesting. Thanks very much for your responses!

 

[Webers.Home]

Some Protestant Christians have been using this phraseology to refer to questioning their
salvation or even if God exists at all.

In private letters to spiritual counselors, Mother Teresa complained that she
felt not the slightest glimmer of the Lord's presence for virtually the entire
five decades of her missionary activity in India. That wasn't her only
complaint. Below are some others.

"When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting
emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my
very soul. How painful is this unknown pain-- I have no faith."

"I am told God loves me; and yet the reality of darkness & coldness &
emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul."

"Now Father-- since 49 or 50 this terrible sense of loss-- this untold
darkness-- this loneliness, this continual longing for God-- which gives me
pain deep down in my heart-- Darkness is such that I really do not see
neither with my mind nor with my reason-- the place of God in my soul is
blank-- There is no God in me-- when the pain of longing is so great-- I just
long & long for God-- and then it is that I feel-- He does not want me-- He is
not there-- God does not want me-- Sometimes-- I just hear my own heart
cry out-- "My God" and nothing else comes-- the torture and pain I can't
explain"

"The damned of Hell suffer eternal punishment because they experiment
with the loss of God. In my own soul, I feel the terrible pain of this loss. I
feel that God does not want me, that God is not God; and that He does not
really exist."

"If there be God . . please forgive me."

Teresa's darkness, her interior suffering, her lack of sensible consolation, her
spiritual dryness, an apparent absence of God from her life, and, at the
same time, a painful longing for Him was virtually perpetual. At the urging of
Henry D'Souza, the Archbishop of Calcutta (a.k.a. Kolkata), the poor woman
finally agreed to an exorcism in the final weeks of her life-- performed by
Father Rosario Stroscio --if perchance demons were clouding her mind.

Mother Teresa / Come Be My Light
The Private Writings of the "Saint of Calcutta"
Edited with commentary by Brian Kolodiejchuk, M.C.
ISBN 978-0-385-52037-9
_

 

[ocean]

I'm not sure Mother Theresa will respond though. She was also Catholic so not sure why the quote about Protestants was used. I would also not think that the expression 'dark night of the soul' applies to a lifetime.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
It sometimes happens that people liken Mother Teresa's darkness to the
darkness that Christ experienced on the cross where he inquired: My God,
my God, why have you forsake me? (Matt 27:46)

But Jesus' experience was very short: no more than six hours whereas
Teresa's was virtually five decades which is equivalent to 438,000 hours.
Now; I'm not a math whiz or a seminary graduate or anything like that but a
ratio of 438,000÷6 seems to me begging the point and/or stretching one's
imagination.
_

 

[ocean]

.
It sometimes happens that people liken Mother Teresa's darkness to the
darkness that Christ experienced on the cross where he inquired: My God,
my God, why have you forsake me? (Matt 27:46)

But Jesus' experience was very short: no more than six hours whereas
Teresa's was virtually five decades which is equivalent to 438,000 hours.
Now; I'm not a math whiz or a seminary graduate or anything like that but a
ratio of 438,000÷6 seems to me begging the point and/or stretching one's
imagination.
_

Yes of course what Jesus experienced was short. However, scripture would indicate separation from God the Father and taking upon Himself the sin of the world would certainly outweigh even a lifetime of 'darkness' as M Theresa experienced. But again, I am not sure why you brought her up, understanding that the actual origin of this definition is or was Catholic. I was actually wondering about what Protestant Christians were thinking about it al as per my op. Thanks

I mean who knows. The woman may have suffered from depression.

 

[Webers.Home]

I am not sure why you brought her up,

Mother Teresa is popular on both sides of the aisle. Her admirers-- both
Catholic and Protestant --consider Teresa a role model and would no doubt
like to know what went awry, to wit: what led to the huge disconnect
between her and God because that's not supposed to happen to folks unified
with Christ.

"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children." (Rom
8:16-17)

The Greek word translated "testifies" basically means to corroborate, defined
by Webster's as: to support with evidence or authority, viz: reinforce and/or
make more certain, i.e. to assure.

Anyway, I am a Protestant whose dark night of the soul came sometime
around 1973 when I was reading the 9th verse in the 8th chapter of the
book of Romans where it says:

"You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God
dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."

At the time, it seemed reasonable to me that were someone inside my body
I should be able to tell; but I could not; and that was making me nervous. So
I contacted the pastor of a conservative church in my area whom I'd heard on
the radio and shared my concerns with him.

Well; he said-- in so many words --that the Spirit of Christ is supernatural,
and as such cannot be detected by means of our five natural senses of taste,
touch, sight, hearing, and smell.

You see; I was expecting the Spirit of Christ to have substance but the Spirit
has no substance.

"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell
where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the
Spirit." (John 3:8)

Long story short; the pastor urged me to RSVP the invitation located in
Rev 3:20 that goes like this:

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and
opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me."

The pastor insisted that I respond to Jesus' knocking right then and there;
so I did as he said with come very simple words of my own inviting Jesus to
come in.

Afterwards the pastor inquired: Well, did he come in? I answered: I don't
know. So the pastor then asked me: Do you think Jesus is a liar? I said: No.
So then he asked me again: When you invited him to come in; did he?

Well; right about then I was beginning to feel a bit sheepish because that
pastor had me. Yes, of course Jesus came in; and instantly my dark night of
the soul ended; just like that!

My initial impulse was to offer Jesus an apology for doubting him but our
meeting didn't get that far.
_

 

[homwardbound]

Well here is a bit of different topic. I've heard of the 'dark night of the soul' and I am wondering what others think about it. I do have my own thoughts about it and have done some research, but my preference would be to simply discuss what others think about it. So in case you are not familiar with this concept, here is what it is according to some. It is actually a concept in Catholicism and has its roots in a poem written by a Spanish Carmelite monk and mystic. 'St. John of the Cross' wrote his eight stanza poem between 1577 -1579 and believed that this dark night was synonymous with travelling the 'narrow way' that Jesus spoke of (Matt. 7:13-14).

Some Protestant Christians have been using this phraseology to refer to questioning their salvation or even if God exists at all. It has also been used to describe in a generic way to refer to mental or emotional or even spiritual pain.

There does not seem to be an actual biblical reference to it in the sense that it is referred to by the author of the original poem, or the idea that this is a sort of right of passing for believers to go through in order to draw closer to God. So, just wondering what some of you might have to say about it or what you might think about it. If you want to learn more about it, there are plenty of references online.

Evil is real and is selfish to self and those it chooses to have as its own by force, mostly manipulation(s) to do its bidding, using Law to get people to do wrong to others over their needs they want to have. Uses, good things here on earth to give to those that obey evil. Having no real compassion for others.
God by Son Jesus overcame evil, death is overcome through Son (John 16:33) for us the people to stand in belief and be freed from evil presently only. I can only be freed in the present given me presently. (that is the present of God) Past is gone (faster then anyone can blink their eye) and I cannot do a thing about past, can you? Yet, I do get to learn from my mistakes and see this dark passenger, understand God took care of it through the cross of Son for me, you and everyone else too, thank you (John 1:29, 19:30)
It is done for us to ask and choose to do what God desires for us to do, and that is simply love all, not a few as the first born flesh only knows how to do. Therefore in belief be transformed by Father of risen Son for you too. (John 4:23-24)
Me, still in process, being in an unredeemed flesh and blood body, best I can do is willingly be dead to first birth daily in practice for me at least, (Romans 6)
Willing between God and me is the key that opened the door to begin seeing the hype of others here in this world and me too
So I die to me and this world daily to see through the veil as God allows when to see, not for me to jump ahead and get excited over things (the hype)

 

[ocean]

Evil is real and is selfish to self and those it chooses to have as its own by force, mostly manipulation(s) to do its bidding, using Law to get people to do wrong to others over their needs they want to have. Uses, good things here on earth to give to those that obey evil. Having no real compassion for others.
God by Son Jesus overcame evil, death is overcome through Son (John 16:33) for us the people to stand in belief and be freed from evil presently only. I can only be freed in the present given me presently. (that is the present of God) Past is gone (faster then anyone can blink their eye) and I cannot do a thing about past, can you? Yet, I do get to learn from my mistakes and see this dark passenger, understand God took care of it through the cross of Son for me, you and everyone else too, thank you (John 1:29, 19:30)
It is done for us to ask and choose to do what God desires for us to do, and that is simply love all, not a few as the first born flesh only knows how to do. Therefore in belief be transformed by Father of risen Son for you too. (John 4:23-24)
Me, still in process, being in an unredeemed flesh and blood body, best I can do is willingly be dead to first birth daily in practice for me at least, (Romans 6)
Willing between God and me is the key that opened the door to begin seeing the hype of others here in this world and me too
So I die to me and this world daily to see through the veil as God allows when to see, not for me to jump ahead and get excited over things (the hype)

I think you are in the wrong thread.

 

[homwardbound]

I think you are in the wrong thread.

Sorry, not meant to offend anyone I will leave it now, thanks

 

[HeIsHere]

Sorry, not meant to offend anyone I will leave it now, thanks

I think what you posted is applicable.
It was personal application, nothing wrong there.

 

[ocean]

I think what you posted is applicable.
It was personal application, nothing wrong there.

It seems some people cannot or maybe refuse, to actually respond to the topic in the op. Is this deliberate disruption or just a desire to express themselves willy nilly all over the place with a captive audience? I asked what some people might think about something and receive a biography of Mother Theresa's unaddressed depression and then a mini sermon on evil. It's ridiculous. There is a time and a place for those things, but this thread was not one of them. I am starting to think that some people in this forum are not able to form a cogent response to a specific topic but instead must make everything about themself and wander off into the sunset and then become offended when someone asks if they might simply address the op.

And then we have the buddy system wherein someone comes along and tells them it's all ok. It's not actually and I am impressed by the tag team efforts in different threads to under-gird similar efforts with the express expectation that the favor will be returned. It's really a kind of 'control' feature that allows threads to continue for literally a couple of hundred pages with no end in sight and nothing ever achieved or any sort of clarity. Really, it's a grand waste of time. The insults that some offer (not referring to this particular op) are an example of people exhorting everyone but themself.

I'm sadly just going to ignore my own thread at this point and any and all so called further responses given.

 

[Cameron143]

It seems some people cannot or maybe refuse, to actually respond to the topic in the op. Is this deliberate disruption or just a desire to express themselves willy nilly all over the place with a captive audience? I asked what some people might think about something and receive a biography of Mother Theresa's unaddressed depression and then a mini sermon on evil. It's ridiculous. There is a time and a place for those things, but this thread was not one of them. I am starting to think that some people in this forum are not able to form a cogent response to a specific topic but instead must make everything about themself and wander off into the sunset and then become offended when someone asks if they might simply address the op.

And then we have the buddy system wherein someone comes along and tells them it's all ok. It's not actually and I am impressed by the tag team efforts in different threads to under-gird similar efforts with the express expectation that the favor will be returned. It's really a kind of 'control' feature that allows threads to continue for literally a couple of hundred pages with no end in sight and nothing ever achieved or any sort of clarity. Really, it's a grand waste of time. The insults that some offer (not referring to this particular op) are an example of people exhorting everyone but themself.

I'm sadly just going to ignore my own thread at this point and any and all so called further responses given.

Love covers a multitude of sins. Bear with people. Don't grow weary in well doing.

 

[Magenta]

Love covers a multitude of sins. Bear with people. Don't grow weary in well doing.

1 Peter 4:8

 

[Cameron143]

1 Peter 4:8

I like the elf lady.

 

[HeIsHere]

It seems some people cannot or maybe refuse, to actually respond to the topic in the op.

I really do not think that was his intention. Not everyone thinks in the same linear manner people go off on tangents.

I am starting to think that some people in this forum are not able to form a cogent response to a specific topic but instead must make everything about themself and wander off into the sunset and then become offended when someone asks if they might simply address the op.

I am surprised after all this time you would think things are different.