THE DAY OF THE LORD

[KJV1611]

Actually, I think I do understand...

Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

When? At the time of the end. This present evil age has not come to an end, yet.

That does come at the end, but those verses have nothing to do with the king of fierce countenance, the daily sacrifice being taken away nor the abomination of desolation... those events were in the first part of Daniel 8 during the time of the four kingdoms around the time of christ. You are running things together and combining things together that aren't together.

 

[KJV1611]

That does come at the end, but those verses have nothing to do with the king of fierce countenance, the daily sacrifice being taken away nor the abomination of desolation... those events were in the first part of Daniel 8 during the time of the four kingdoms around the time of christ. You are running things together and combining things together that aren't together.

I'm not even sure those verses are even talking about the time of the very end because the end times started when Christ came.

 

[DP]

i do believe that judgment day is one of the days referred to as 'the day of the lord'...i just don't think it is the -only- day that is given this title...

so i think we need to be cautious in assuming that what is said about a certain 'day of the lord' in one part of scripture is talking about the same 'day of the lord' as another part of scripture...

there are several places in biblical exegesis where many interpreters have a tendency to lump scripture passages together as if they were all talking about the same thing...when really they are talking about more than one different thing...this is one of them...

Being cautious on this idea in God's Word does result in understanding how God gave "the day of the Lord" as a time marker for the very last day of this world, once one has studied both OT and NT Scripture about it. When the Apostles referenced it in their writings from the OT, none of their examples has it happening at any other time than the very end.

So let's not try to throw doubt into the Scriptures where none really exists, for the idea that "the day of the Lord" is only an expression meaning many things to 'some' is also a doctrine of some men, and not just an idea you came up with.

 

[DP]

So far, I see the pre-trib rapture folks at work here again trying to change God's Word to force it to fit their pre-trib rapture view by creating doubt about the Biblical timing of the "day of the Lord" event written in God's Word that's scheduled for the last day of this world. (Some on Pre-trib here instead say the "day of the Lord" happens during the tribulation by the way).

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

Who doesn't understand that event will END the reign of wickedness upon this earth and this present world?

If you disagree with Peter there about man's works being burned off the earth on that day, then know you have strayed far away from The Word of God.

 

[KJV1611]

So far, I see the pre-trib rapture folks at work here again trying to change God's Word to force it to fit their pre-trib rapture view by creating doubt about the Biblical timing of the "day of the Lord" event written in God's Word that's scheduled for the last day of this world. (Some on Pre-trib here instead say the "day of the Lord" happens during the tribulation by the way).

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

Who doesn't understand that event will END the reign of wickedness upon this earth and this present world?

If you disagree with Peter there about man's works being burned off the earth on that day, then know you have strayed far away from The Word of God.

Where does the bible say the day of the Lord will end the reign of wickedness on the earth?

 

[DP]

Where does the bible say the day of the Lord will end the reign of wickedness on the earth?

Try Isaiah 2 for starters.

 

[DP]

The Day has not happened yet. This is what happens when uneducated people try to interpret the Bible. They always misinterpret it because they do not have the tools to properly interpret the Scriptures.

Or they are intentionally... trying to change what the Scripture says, just so they can push their own doctrine instead. That's something our Lord Jesus warned us about.

 

[KJV1611]

Try Isaiah 2 for starters.

Did you read Isaiah 3, a continuation of chaprter 2? Jerusalem is given over to children and babes shall rule over it. I know Isaiah is a little hard to understand but Isaiah is saying the same thing all the other prophets said... the kingdom is taken from the Jews and given to the nations to bring in the fruit. There's nothing there related to the end of time or the end of wickedness.

 

[KJV1611]

I think the misunderstanding of the day of the Lord comes from a lot of extremely wrong understanding of scripture, starting with Daniel 9:27. I don't see anything in scripture that points to the day of the Lord being even remotely close to the second coming of Christ.

 

[John146]

I think the misunderstanding of the day of the Lord comes from a lot of extremely wrong understanding of scripture, starting with Daniel 9:27. I don't see anything in scripture that points to the day of the Lord being even remotely close to the second coming of Christ.

I don't know if this has been covered yet, but my question to ponder...is the day of the Lord the same as the day of Christ? I see Scripture pointing to the second coming of the Lord as the "day of the Lord," and the rapture of the church as the "day of Christ."

 

[KJV1611]

I don't know if this has been covered yet, but my question to ponder...is the day of the Lord the same as the day of Christ? I see Scripture pointing to the second coming of the Lord as the "day of the Lord," and the rapture of the church as the "day of Christ."

I don't see them as the same. Where do you see the day of the Lord as related the second coming of Christ?

 

[John146]

I don't see them as the same. Where do you see the day of the Lord as related the second coming of Christ?

When the day of the Lord is mentioned, Scripture describes it as a day of destruction in which the Lord passes judgment on the earth. The day of Christ is only mentioned by Paul and points to the believer's judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

 

[DP]

Did you read Isaiah 3, a continuation of chaprter 2? Jerusalem is given over to children and babes shall rule over it. I know Isaiah is a little hard to understand but Isaiah is saying the same thing all the other prophets said... the kingdom is taken from the Jews and given to the nations to bring in the fruit. There's nothing there related to the end of time or the end of wickedness.

If one studies enough of the OT prophets they'll learn the subject flow changes a lot and sometimes very quickly even within a chapter in the OT prophets. Starting around Isaiah 24 forward up to Isaiah 36 some scholars call the Apocalypse of Isaiah because of the many parallels with the Book of Revelation.

 

[DP]

I think the misunderstanding of the day of the Lord comes from a lot of extremely wrong understanding of scripture, starting with Daniel 9:27. I don't see anything in scripture that points to the day of the Lord being even remotely close to the second coming of Christ.

You don't see it for what reason? Because you don't really understand simple English?

Zech 14:1-4
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
KJV

 

[DP]

I don't know if this has been covered yet, but my question to ponder...is the day of the Lord the same as the day of Christ? I see Scripture pointing to the second coming of the Lord as the "day of the Lord," and the rapture of the church as the "day of Christ."

The "day of Christ" phrase in 2 Thess.2:2 is the "day of the Lord" because in the Greek NT the word there for "Christ" is not Greek Christos, but the word for lord (kurios).

In Phil.1:10 and Phil.2:16 it is the Greek word Christos for "Christ".

 

[Ahwatukee]

When the day of the Lord is mentioned, Scripture describes it as a day of destruction in which the Lord passes judgment on the earth. The day of Christ is only mentioned by Paul and points to the believer's judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Good day John146 & KJV1611,

Just FYI, "The Day of the Lord" includes and is initiated when the Lord gathers the church, for in the scriptures below, Paul referred to our being gathered in both letters to the Thessalonians as "The Day of the Lord"

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words. Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come."

In both scriptures Paul is speaking about the resurrection and catching away of the dead and the living and then he refers to this event as the day of the Lord. In the OT it was specifically known as a cruel day of wrath and fierce anger, but here in the NT Paul reveals that the gathering of the church is what initiates the day of the Lord, which is then followed by the wrath of God.

Notice that in the first scripture above, Paul outlines the gathering of the dead and the living in 1 Thes.4:16-18 and then in the very next verse he says, "But about the times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night." The times and dates and the reference to the day of the Lord, would then have to refer back to what Paul was just speaking about, which was the gathering of the church.

Paul does the same thing in 2 Thes.2:1 which begins with "Concerning the coming of our Lord" and then in verse 2 he refers to our gathering as "the day of the Lord." Furthermore, in 1 Thes.4:13-18, Paul gives a detailed account of the resurrection and catching away of both the dead and living, which is followed by his mention of the wrath of God, demonstrating that the order of events is first the gathering of the church, which is then followed by God's wrath. For regarding the wrath of God, Paul said, "but you brothers are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief." In other words, those who belong to Christ, when he appears will be resurrected, changed and caught up, which is what he is referring to by not being surprised by that day. Following that comes the wrath of God part of the day of the Lord. The order is, removal of the church, then the wrath of God.

The second letter to the Thessalonians also demonstrates that the resurrection and the catching away of the dead and the living was taught by Paul, having received it directly from the Lord and that it was also believed by the
early church . Regarding the gathering of the church, in response to a letter from the Thessalonians Paul tells them not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from them saying that the day of the Lord had already come, which would demonstrate that there were some who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. This is what prompted the Thessalonians to write to Paul and that because their concern to him was, if the resurrection has already taken place, then why have we not be changed and caught up according to the teaching? Their other concern was that, if the resurrection had taken place and they were still on earth, they knew that the wrath of God was to follow.

 

[DP]

Good day John146 & KJV1611,

Just FYI, "The Day of the Lord" includes and is initiated when the Lord gathers the church, for in the scriptures below, Paul referred to our being gathered in both letters to the Thessalonians as "The Day of the Lord"

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words. Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come."

In both scriptures Paul is speaking about the resurrection and catching away of the dead and the living and then he refers to this event as the day of the Lord. In the OT it was specifically known as a cruel day of wrath and fierce anger, but here in the NT Paul reveals that the gathering of the church is what initiates the day of the Lord, which is then followed by the wrath of God.

Notice that in the first scripture above, Paul outlines the gathering of the dead and the living in 1 Thes.4:16-18 and then in the very next verse he says, "But about the times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night." The times and dates and the reference to the day of the Lord, would then have to refer back to what Paul was just speaking about, which was the gathering of the church.

Paul does the same thing in 2 Thes.2:1 which begins with "Concerning the coming of our Lord" and then in verse 2 he refers to our gathering as "the day of the Lord." Furthermore, in 1 Thes.4:13-18, Paul gives a detailed account of the resurrection and catching away of both the dead and living, which is followed by his mention of the wrath of God, demonstrating that the order of events is first the gathering of the church, which is then followed by God's wrath. For regarding the wrath of God, Paul said, "but you brothers are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief." In other words, those who belong to Christ, when he appears will be resurrected, changed and caught up, which is what he is referring to by not being surprised by that day. Following that comes the wrath of God part of the day of the Lord. The order is, removal of the church, then the wrath of God.

The second letter to the Thessalonians also demonstrates that the resurrection and the catching away of the dead and the living was taught by Paul, having received it directly from the Lord and that it was also believed by the
early church . Regarding the gathering of the church, in response to a letter from the Thessalonians Paul tells them not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from them saying that the day of the Lord had already come, which would demonstrate that there were some who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. This is what prompted the Thessalonians to write to Paul and that because their concern to him was, if the resurrection has already taken place, then why have we not be changed and caught up according to the teaching? Their other concern was that, if the resurrection had taken place and they were still on earth, they knew that the wrath of God was to follow.

Problem is, the day of the Lord timing is after... the tribulation, not before it. And the wrath Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.5 is God's wrath on the last day which is when the day of the Lord is. But you are backwards on that, because of listening to men instead.

 

[KJV1611]

If one studies enough of the OT prophets they'll learn the subject flow changes a lot and sometimes very quickly even within a chapter in the OT prophets. Starting around Isaiah 24 forward up to Isaiah 36 some scholars call the Apocalypse of Isaiah because of the many parallels with the Book of Revelation.

I don't that see that change too often but I do see many people insert changes that are not there to make it fit their preconcieved ideas. For example people see "last days" in Isaiah 2 and attribute it to the second coming but those verses are talking about the first coming. We have to be careful when see "last days" because the last days started at the first coming.

Isaiah 2:1-3 KJV
The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
[2] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
[3] And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord , to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

 

[GaryA]

I don't that see that change too often but I do see many people insert changes that are not there to make it fit their preconcieved ideas. For example people see "last days" in Isaiah 2 and attribute it to the second coming but those verses are talking about the first coming. We have to be careful when see "last days" because the last days started at the first coming.

Isaiah 2:1-3 KJV
The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
[2] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
[3] And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord , to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2:

[SUP]1[/SUP] The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. [SUP]2[/SUP] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. [SUP]3[/SUP] And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. [SUP]4[/SUP] And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. [SUP]5[/SUP] O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD. [SUP]6[/SUP] Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers. [SUP]7[/SUP] Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots: [SUP]8[/SUP] Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made: [SUP]9[/SUP] And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not. [SUP]10[/SUP] Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty. [SUP]11[/SUP] The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. [SUP]12[/SUP] For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: [SUP]13[/SUP] And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, [SUP]14[/SUP] And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up, [SUP]15[/SUP] And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, [SUP]16[/SUP] And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures. [SUP]17[/SUP] And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. [SUP]18[/SUP] And the idols he shall utterly abolish. [SUP]19[/SUP] And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. [SUP]20[/SUP] In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; [SUP]21[/SUP] To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. [SUP]22[/SUP] Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?


"I think not..."

 

[john832]

The ram kingdom was the Medes and Persians, that kingdom was conquered by the rough goat kingdom which was Grecia. Grecia was divided up into four kingdoms and in the LATTER part of those four kingdoms a king of fierce countenance will rise up. Question, how do you put a king that rose to power around the time of Christ in the last days of earth?

Let's put it into prophetic perspective...

Dan 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
Dan 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
Dan 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
Dan 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Dan 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

God revealed the history of world ruling empires through King N's dream...

Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

1st kingdom or empire was Babylon.

Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

2nd kingdom was the Medo-Persian empire

Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

3rd was Greco-Macedonian empire

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

4th empire was Rome

Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Notice that in the days of the ten toes, God would set up an Kingdom that would break into pieces these kingdoms and consume them?

Hasn't happened yet.

You are taking one part of prophecy out of context. The king of Grecia did not rise at Christ's time, he had long since fallen and Rome was the dominant power on earth at that time, that is unless you think Alexander was still ruling at the time Christ lived.