The devil sinned from the beginning

[Lukasmotty47]

Tales of adrenochrome and tunnels, and similarities with Christians:


Recently I saw another fairy tale about adrenochrome and "tunnels with children" ... which is supposed to be a similarity to Christians who pray the Holy Rosary ..
Crazy lied beings sometimes want to hint to us... that the light from the rosary goes from the saints to the souls of the dark beings

..
https://old.bitchute.com/video/cmWGfCVOh37s/


The joke is good, except that:

1) light from prayer from Christians goes to everyone except antichrists

2) various fatigues and malaises are only attacks of demons

3) they would like to separate Mary from Jesus, manipulate, divide and gradually "erase" .. or tell us that Mary is a demon with a beak ) (a fairy tale about the god Amon-ra, Horus, and others)
But we can also have a prayer directly to God, for example for the expulsion of demons from the soul and deliverance from darkness forever

3.5) and some want to tell us that God is satan here, or a bunch of Zionists .. and that the prayer actually goes to them 🙂 and that was probably the best joke ..
Otherwise, the prayers are added up differently and filled in at the right time.. and the true God decides about it, and not any automatic systems let alone a bunch of pre-condemned one-eyed peoples 🙂

4) the sign of the dice is just another joke, from those who need to take as many of them to their side as possible .. until the end of their lives, every day they load themselves with more weight to their soul, more curses and all the servants confirm the status of belonging to Satan 🙂
Satan probably promised to them something nice in the next separate world for that

.....
And the joke that maybe in half a year they will switch us all to another dimension 🙂 and we will just living between light and dark .. that was also good ..
But instead, they all are just go into a very long and personal "adjustment" purgatory

 

[justahumanbeing]

let evil be undisturbed. Don't go trying to understand what happened. It had happened and is over. That is the adversary there. That we all know. That's enough. This is a war between God and Satan.

If you must know, of the 9 choirs of angels, he belonged to the 1st. The Seraphim. Michael is an Archangel, like Gabriel and the other Archangels. One of the lower tiers. God promoted Michael to commander of the heavenly armies for throwing Satan from Heaven for his defiance of God.

And this defiance happened before creation of the earth and man.

It was all part of God's plan. That there be an adversary who would stand against God and his children (Us). And Christ make the ultimate sacrifice to redeem us and bring us back to God.

You can read about angelic references in the Torah, Book of Job, The book of Revelation, Genesis. Little account is given in the Bible about angels, their nature and who they are. They appear throughout the Bible though and serve as instruments to carry out God's plan.

 

[Clayman]

Reading 1 John chapter 3. Verse 8.
KJV.

I could do with clarification on this point. I thought the devil was originally Lucifer, Bearer of Light, a powerful angel in heaven. That he was thrown out of heaven along with a third of the angels.

So from what point had he been sinning? It depends on what The Beginning means.

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

Exactly, it depends on what in the beginning means, and for this we must be consistent in our biblical application.

For some reason when it concerns Satan people throw logic and sense out the window, I mean we already have examples on how God talks to us.

John also tells us the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.

And people will then correctly explain that Jesus was not slain at the beginning of creation as it appears to tell us but that the plan of salvation was known from the beginning by God and put into action.

Its a bit like the verse the devil is the father of lies, so people go aha that means Satan lied at the beginning in the garden, yet when we read that Abraham is the father of faith, people don't go aha Abraham was the first to believe by faith, therefore Adam and Noah etc had no faith. It means exactly how people explain it that Abraham is a pattern of faith for all to follow. To me it's hypocritical to apply one reasoning one way then say its not even possible for it to apply to Satan in the same manner.

And what does the first part of the verse say again,

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil,

We can see Satan is a pattern for all who do what is sinful and are following Satan's example, also John tells us God knows who are in the book of life, therefore we can conclude God knows those who will not be, God knows this before he spoke the Words that brought our creation into being.

Note: This is foreknowledge not predestination.

Of course this ties into your next thought.

I am just idly wondering why a lying deceitful being was doing slithering around in the garden of Eden which was the ideal paradise for the first humans.

Satan was a Cherub, and we can also see in the tabernacle which is a pattern of the heavenly, that Cherubs had a role of covering God's glory, also in the tabernacle we can see the Aaronic priesthood's role, which was included the role of mediation.

We can see in the description of Lucifer that nine stones of the high priests breastplate are also a part of his make up, so I see Satan was created to act as a priest. So I don't see Satan as the sinful being, sneaking into the garden of Eden and thwarting Gods well intended plan.

So to me he was there for a perfectly good and legitimate reason, and ties in with our creation being very good.

As for the lie in the garden I haven't worked out what the supposed lie is yet, sure Satan may have wanted to see if Adam would disobey Gods command and therefore misled Eve.

When he told Eve if they ate of the tree she would then have knowledge of good and evil, true, after they ate they knew what disobedience was, and what evil was.

He told Eve that if she ate of the tree she would not die, she ate of the tree and she did not die. And yes one say that she spiritually died, but God still had to remove them from the garden or they would live forever.

Also remember this must have been Gods plan through foreknowledge, God never intended for us to live in paradise, without us knowing what good and evil is, in fact it even makes sense that now that we know what good and evil is, we can now make an informed choice and choose to follow God, God and not the world and the pleasures of it. Even if we are the minority that choose to have sin removed from us in our next life.

Any way you also said that Satan was thrown out of heaven with a third of his angels, this account is in Rev 12, and the timing is super specific so that there can be no misunderstandings, (I say this and laugh, you will already have read commentaries that say this happened at the beginning, then they forget they say this and also say it happened per the timing of Rev 12)

Rev 12 says that first a sign of a woman appeared in heaven then a dragon appeared in heaven and then cast a third of the stars to the ground to devour the child. And you will have 100 different opinions of what/who the woman is who the child is, etc, I simply see the woman as Israel, after the Angel announced to Mary she is with child, all of heaven saw one of the great momentous events of our creation, God lowering Himself to become a man and entering the womb of Mary.

The child being God who has become flesh and dwelt among us is. (Immanuel), Jesus Christ.

Whom Herod(Satan) tried to kill(devour) after He was born in Bethlehem.

The serpent (nachash) means shining one, and was an animal in the garden people don't talk about its role in the garden, people don't talk about Melchizedek the priest without genealogy, and why Abraham refused the way this priest of the most high God wanted the tithe, also why did he seem more interested in having the people, and why the heck was a priest of the most high God hanging out with the likes of the King of Sodom in the first place?

I have a different view of Satan than most, not that he is good, just that he started out as good, and possibly still thinks of himself as good(like all sinners do) just food for thought, don't worry I don't expect you or anyone to agree with me, Im just showing how I think as food for thought, I dare not show all the food or it may get thrown at me, but even with differing views we can still see things in others views to appreciate, well I do when reading others takes anyway.

 

[MaryM]

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

Exactly, it depends on what in the beginning means, and for this we must be consistent in our biblical application.

For some reason when it concerns Satan people throw logic and sense out the window, I mean we already have examples on how God talks to us.

John also tells us the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.

And people will then correctly explain that Jesus was not slain at the beginning of creation as it appears to tell us but that the plan of salvation was known from the beginning by God and put into action.

Its a bit like the verse the devil is the father of lies, so people go aha that means Satan lied at the beginning in the garden, yet when we read that Abraham is the father of faith, people don't go aha Abraham was the first to believe by faith, therefore Adam and Noah etc had no faith. It means exactly how people explain it that Abraham is a pattern of faith for all to follow. To me it's hypocritical to apply one reasoning one way then say its not even possible for it to apply to Satan in the same manner.

And what does the first part of the verse say again,

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil,

We can see Satan is a pattern for all who do what is sinful and are following Satan's example, also John tells us God knows who are in the book of life, therefore we can conclude God knows those who will not be, God knows this before he spoke the Words that brought our creation into being.

Note: This is foreknowledge not predestination.

Of course this ties into your next thought.



Satan was a Cherub, and we can also see in the tabernacle which is a pattern of the heavenly, that Cherubs had a role of covering God's glory, also in the tabernacle we can see the Aaronic priesthood's role, which was included the role of mediation.

We can see in the description of Lucifer that nine stones of the high priests breastplate are also a part of his make up, so I see Satan was created to act as a priest. So I don't see Satan as the sinful being, sneaking into the garden of Eden and thwarting Gods well intended plan.

So to me he was there for a perfectly good and legitimate reason, and ties in with our creation being very good.

As for the lie in the garden I haven't worked out what the supposed lie is yet, sure Satan may have wanted to see if Adam would disobey Gods command and therefore misled Eve.

When he told Eve if they ate of the tree she would then have knowledge of good and evil, true, after they ate they knew what disobedience was, and what evil was.

He told Eve that if she ate of the tree she would not die, she ate of the tree and she did not die. And yes one say that she spiritually died, but God still had to remove them from the garden or they would live forever.

Also remember this must have been Gods plan through foreknowledge, God never intended for us to live in paradise, without us knowing what good and evil is, in fact it even makes sense that now that we know what good and evil is, we can now make an informed choice and choose to follow God, God and not the world and the pleasures of it. Even if we are the minority that choose to have sin removed from us in our next life.

Any way you also said that Satan was thrown out of heaven with a third of his angels, this account is in Rev 12, and the timing is super specific so that there can be no misunderstandings, (I say this and laugh, you will already have read commentaries that say this happened at the beginning, then they forget they say this and also say it happened per the timing of Rev 12)

Rev 12 says that first a sign of a woman appeared in heaven then a dragon appeared in heaven and then cast a third of the stars to the ground to devour the child. And you will have 100 different opinions of what/who the woman is who the child is, etc, I simply see the woman as Israel, after the Angel announced to Mary she is with child, all of heaven saw one of the great momentous events of our creation, God lowering Himself to become a man and entering the womb of Mary.

The child being God who has become flesh and dwelt among us is. (Immanuel), Jesus Christ.

Whom Herod(Satan) tried to kill(devour) after He was born in Bethlehem.

The serpent (nachash) means shining one, and was an animal in the garden people don't talk about its role in the garden, people don't talk about Melchizedek the priest without genealogy, and why Abraham refused the way this priest of the most high God wanted the tithe, also why did he seem more interested in having the people, and why the heck was a priest of the most high God hanging out with the likes of the King of Sodom in the first place?

I have a different view of Satan than most, not that he is good, just that he started out as good, and possibly still thinks of himself as good(like all sinners do) just food for thought, don't worry I don't expect you or anyone to agree with me, Im just showing how I think as food for thought, I dare not show all the food or it may get thrown at me, but even with differing views we can still see things in others views to appreciate, well I do when reading others takes anyway.

Thankyou, that is most interesting , I see you are a questioning curious person. I also am and I always stop to think about things for myself. I never just accept. I believe the Bible is the truth but I need help in understanding and deciphering.

 

[CS1]

Reading 1 John chapter 3. Verse 8.
KJV.

I could do with clarification on this point. I thought the devil was originally Lucifer, Bearer of Light, a powerful angel in heaven. That he was thrown out of heaven along with a third of the angels.

So from what point had he been sinning? It depends on what The Beginning means.

The Word of God says, "From the beginning . The context is before man was created. This is why he is found on earth in the Garden of Eden. Read Genesis 3. it was found in Lucifer before he fell iniquity. Falling was the effect of the sin that was the cause.

 

[MaryM]

The Word of God says, "From the beginning . The context is before man was created. This is why he is found on earth in the Garden of Eden. Read Genesis 3. it was found in Lucifer before he fell iniquity. Falling was the effect of the sin that was the cause.

I'm still confused. Why was the serpent/devil, a fallen being, in the garden at all? I thought all was to be a perfect life there for Adam and Eve who I take it we're born pure of sin.

 

[CS1]

I'm still confused. Why was the serpent/devil, a fallen being, in the garden at all? I thought all was to be a perfect life there for Adam and Eve who I take it we're born pure of sin.

good qestion.

The theological perspective is where the word of God is silent on the issue; we are to be quiet. The bible doesn't give the full cause for everything other than God. Moses wrote the first five books, and He recorded what was given to him, yet not every detail was provided.

Now in the context to Satan, we receive more revelation about him as we study all scripture.

we know the name of Satan, which speaks of his attributes:

Satan means accuser" or "adversary"
Lucifer means: “bearer of light” or “morning star,”
Old Serpent: speaks of His longevity
Dragon: speaks of his power

Jesus said he is a liar and the father of them and Jesus called him a murderer from the bringing. And comes but to steal, kill, and destroy.

Now, the garden was made perfect, and God made both men and women with free will. God made everything Good, yet man has ruined much due to sin. Adam was not created with a sinful nature but had the free will to disobey God, which he did. Then, man's eternal state was fallen because of sin.

 

[Clayman]

I'm still confused. Why was the serpent/devil, a fallen being, in the garden at all? I thought all was to be a perfect life there for Adam and Eve who I take it we're born pure of sin.

I find it confusing as well, God said everything was very good at the end of day six, The bible says that sin entered the world(our creation) through one man. Not an angel as some people present.

Romans 5:12 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one angel man, and death through sin, in this way death spread to all people, because all sinned.

To me according to the bible Lucifer was also created perfect and therefore fell at a later date, So to me there was no fallen being in the garden of Eden, sure he deceived Eve into eating of the tree, but to me you don't have to be fallen to do this, and it seems to me the bible lines up with how I see it.

Some think Lucifer already had to be fallen to do this, some make up a time before our creation where he was good, then fell, yet that creates more contradictions than answers, like why did God put him in the garden to mar paradise if he was already a fallen being, did he sneak in when God wasn't looking?

Hardly anybody says Lucifer fell during the act when he deceived Eve, why is this? even though they theorise this is a sin, this for them is not the first sin? Even though it would be easier to make it fit verses (not that they seem to care) like at the end of day six God saw what He had made and Behold it was very Good! This is important! for its not why they need Satan to be a fallen angel already!

Anyway I too would like to know why Lucifer had to be fallen in the garden before Adam fell, it makes zero sense to me, if someone could explain the logic to me in layman terms it would sure go a long way in helping me understand.

 

[Clayman]

Thankyou, that is most interesting , I see you are a questioning curious person. I also am and I always stop to think about things for myself. I never just accept. I believe the Bible is the truth but I need help in understanding and deciphering.

Thanks, I too need help in understanding and deciphering I think it should be life long ambition, I change my mind on topics on things all the time so I could change my view on even this.

Just about all the time people approach topics with a bias including myself, Take for example there is a thread on Job, most interesting and fascinating reading, I enjoy just reading not participating for I'm learning lots and there is an occasion where two don't quite see eye to eye on certain facts, so both present their view as to why they are right very well, and both are articulate and make good points.

I also cant help but read between the lines one is presenting their view from a eternal secure viewpoint and the other from a view where we are not eternally secured, they apply their understanding through their biblical lenses into Job, which is natural and a good way to validate our own understandings.

Not to get too sidetracked, with Lucifer already being a fallen being it is definitely coming from a preconceived bias just like others in other subjects, not saying Im not as well for all are, but if looking at for the first time is the best, the less amount of bias the more we just follow God's simple Word. Just we need to be able to say "aaarrgh" I cant make my view line up with all scripture and validate it all the time with all verses like with Rom 5:12 so maybe I have to get the duster out and go back to the drawing board and start again from the beginning, Or back a few steps even.

But this is just wishful thinking the more investment, lines and work one puts on the board the harder it is for some of us to do.