The Earth is round.

[posthuman]

EM is measurable and can replace gravity that is not measurable.

false. gravity is every bit as measurable as E or B fields are.

EM holds everything together including atoms and is the force to push and pull things.

false. the weak and strong forces hold atoms together. EM only holds electrons in the valence shells. while electromagnetic force is able to 'push and pull' some things, there are many things it has zero effect on, and the effect is weak compared to other fundamental forces, so that it is impossible for some motions and cohesion to be explained by EM.

again, false. EM does not act on many things, such as substances with balanced charge. i don't care how large your magnetic or electric field is; it will not move a rubber ball even a millimeter, and as the ((unanswered)) questions i asked earlier indicate, EM does not account for holding things together and a theory based on EM being a replacement for gravity is seriously and irrevocably flawed and false.

Gravity changes it's laws at will being STRONG sometimes and WEAK at others.

false. the measured force of gravity changes smoothly ((in a mathematical sense: having continuous first derivative, no 'jumps' in distribution over all real numbers)) in a very regular, well-defined way.

The experiment by Faraday show an e-current creates a magnetic field and later that a changing magnetic field will create an e-current.

you mean 'Faraday's law' not his 'experiment' right? one of Maxwell's equations?
sure. either ((or both)) the Faraday-Maxwell equation and/or the Faraday-Lenz law?

and if you can clarify that -- furthermore, so what?
that's well known and doesn't in any way whatsoever negate the existence of gravitational effects.

Density/buoyancy is easily shown in water, the more dense the object is the closer to the bottom
it goes.

buoyancy is an induced force ((not even a real force)) from pressure of the immersing fluid acting on a body immersed in a fluid. guess what causes the pressure? the downward force. buoyancy is a resultant force opposite the downward force.
that downward force is due to gravity. you can't have any such thing as buoyancy without a downward force for buoyancy to resist.

density is not a force. density is a scalar property, mass divided by volume.
you're either misusing this word altogether, being ignorant of it, or you've redefined it to fit your paradigm. which is it?

On a FE there is no reason to include "gravity" or any of it's offshoots that it needs to explain "this to explain that" because there is nothing to "hold" to the Earth.

false. the geometry of any surface in the universe does not negate the fact that bodies orbit each other, or that when you drop something, it falls down. there is still such a thing as 'down' -- being on the surface of a disc rather than a spheroid doesn't mean there is no such thing as down, or that your phone will fall to the ground if you let go of it, or that things don't all float around everywhere.

Gravity is a necessity for the globe and was "formulated" to uphold the Helio Theory.

false. gravity is necessary to explain all kinds of observed motions. Galileo described how objects fall on the surface of the earth ((due to a force: gravity)) long before Newton, inspired by an object falling, formulated expressions that ((almost)) completely describe the observed motion of the planets in orbits governed by the universal law of gravitation.
gravity was not 'invented' or 'formulated' to explain heliocentricism. it was created by God, and it was described first to explain how things accelerate when you drop them. which has nothing to do with orbits. Newton already knew that the sun was the center of the solar system before he applied the force that Galileo had already described to explain the observed motions of the planets, minus the small corrections due to relativistic effects.

Since gravity is not proven, and since we are talking about a FE where it is not needed anyway . . .

false. gravity is very well established & proven. you have not in the slightest bit given a shred of evidence or even reasoning to support he idea that it is not, and nothing but what is tantamount to 'because i said so' to support or explain the idea that it is 'not needed' or that electromagnetism & the resultant vector of pressure induced by gravity ((which is what buoyancy is)) can in any way whatsoever account for all gravitational effects -- or indeed even one single instance of a gravitational effect.

---

so no, we can't move on. until you admit that this is all BS, or give some kind of actual substantive explanation.
and if this is all BS, there is no point in moving on -- if FE is already established to be built on a pack of lies, why should we keep entertaining it?

 

[Lynx]

One thing I wonder about with this whole conspiracy thing. Que bono?

Let's assume the whole round-earth idea is a lie, and scientists have been conspiring to trick us into believing the earth is round when it is in fact flat. Why would they want to make us believe it is round? How does anybody benefit in the slightest?

It's not keeping anybody out of Heaven.

It's not making anybody any money.

It's not making any sense.

Really, if the earth is flat there is no profit for the devil and no money to gain for the "powers that be" to lie about it being a ball. Why would anybody bother?

 

[GaryA]

One thing I wonder about with this whole conspiracy thing. Que bono?

Let's assume the whole round-earth idea is a lie, and scientists have been conspiring to trick us into believing the earth is round when it is in fact flat. Why would they want to make us believe it is round? How does anybody benefit in the slightest?

It's not keeping anybody out of Heaven.

It's not making anybody any money.

It's not making any sense.

Really, if the earth is flat there is no profit for the devil and no money to gain for the "powers that be" to lie about it being a ball. Why would anybody bother?

You don't believe that "hiding God" is profitable for Satan? You don't think that the big-bang / huge-expanding-universe / evolution tale -- that makes man out to be an insignificant-spec-of-nothing instead of the most-significant crown-of-creation that God made man to be -- is sending people by the millions / billions to hell?

Do you know just how much [ tax-payer ] money NASA makes...?????

You are not looking at a large enough picture. Step-back-a-ways...

Part of what it is about -- is -- promoting "the whole 'sun god' thing"; however, what it is mostly about is -- "hiding God" ----- because -- 'Flat Earth' [ just ] absolutely "screams" - [ that ] "God exists"...

 

[Tintin]

Evolutionary theory is one of the few true conspiracies in the world. But a Flat-Earth? There's no conspiracy there. Or truth.

 

[GaryA]

Evolutionary theory is one of the few true conspiracies in the world. But a Flat-Earth? There's no conspiracy there. Or truth.

Brother -- I am absolutely certain that one day you will discover that 'evolution' is only one 'facet' of a much larger lie -- the main purpose of which is to "hide God"...

It might be the day you die ( just a thought-provoking scenario ) -- and, when the angel(s) come to get you - to take you up to heaven --- and, you happen to look down as you go upward -- and -- -- "Oh, my! Wow! The Earth is flat and stationary!" --

When the time comes --- don't forget to look down...

 

[posthuman]

'Flat Earth' [ just ] absolutely "screams" - [ that ] "God exists"...

??

Because nothing says God exists quite like a anarchic, inconsistent and incomprehensible world not governed by any kind of universal order or laws, whose defining characteristics are confusion, inconsistencies and a tendency to deceive anyone who studies it closely?

That's what you think?

You've lost it Gary, and I thank God that I have the freedom to tell you that bluntly.



((sent from a cell phone, relayed by an orbiting satellite that is absolutely impossible to exist in a flat earth scenario, but is fully and completely understood and explained in the real universe, in which the world is spherical and orbital motion is perfectly described by gravitational forces))

 

[tanakh]

If the Earth is flat whats on the underside and how thick is it? Also what keeps the sea and everything else from spilling over the edge?

 

[PeterJens]

You don't believe that "hiding God" is profitable for Satan? You don't think that the big-bang / huge-expanding-universe / evolution tale -- that makes man out to be an insignificant-spec-of-nothing instead of the most-significant crown-of-creation that God made man to be -- is sending people by the millions / billions to hell?

Do you know just how much [ tax-payer ] money NASA makes...?????

You are not looking at a large enough picture. Step-back-a-ways...

Part of what it is about -- is -- promoting "the whole 'sun god' thing"; however, what it is mostly about is -- "hiding God" ----- because -- 'Flat Earth' [ just ] absolutely "screams" - [ that ] "God exists"...

Gary - Deception on the scale you need, needs a motivation behind the people.
Most of these people get paid a salary to do a simple job and most of that job
works on the concept of truth. What is done is open, transparent and true.

It is how our schools, businesses, science works. It is the agreed basis and has
delivered the technology and advances we see everyday including the computers
we use here, and the phones we all possess.

So either this is true and you are wrong, or this is all a lie and you are right.
I know what I go with.

 

[Lynx]

A heliocentric model of the solar system is hiding God?

*head scratching*

Gary have you ever tried flying out to the edge of the earth to see what's out there? Do it sometime. Take pictures. It should be fairly simple to take a jet and a camera and go out to the edge of the earth. Seriously, with all the people hollering "FLAT EARTH" why has nobody gone out to the edge and taken a picture yet?

And NASA doesn't make nearly enough to justify a conspiracy of the proposed scale. It would be like me taking a minimum wage job at a fast food factory 1,743 miles from where I live - drive time and gas expense would make going to work LESS than useless.

 

[PeterJens]

A heliocentric model of the solar system is hiding God?

*head scratching*

Gary have you ever tried flying out to the edge of the earth to see what's out there? Do it sometime. Take pictures. It should be fairly simple to take a jet and a camera and go out to the edge of the earth. Seriously, with all the people hollering "FLAT EARTH" why has nobody gone out to the edge and taken a picture yet?

And NASA doesn't make nearly enough to justify a conspiracy of the proposed scale. It would be like me taking a minimum wage job at a fast food factory 1,743 miles from where I live - drive time and gas expense would make going to work LESS than useless.

There are so many projects setup to simply go round the world.

Now if these people fly in a straight line approximating for wind etc. they would fall off
the edge, but they did not report this. Odd that.

In fact the date line which I have passed over a few times would never exist and could
not be set. Equally following dawn from one day to another, right round the world,
live on tv or midnight on news year eve would again be impossible.

It is odd with so many proofs in your everyday experience anyone would think the
world was flat.

 

[posthuman]

It is odd with so many proofs in your everyday experience anyone would think the
world was flat.

even sunrise and sunset. the way the stars move in a great circle every night, and from year to year as well -- and how as you travel south, they move too, so that after you pass the equator the night sky is full of an entirely different set of stars. & you can see satellites passing overhead in arcs all over the world, day and night - there are trackers that will tell you to the second and to the degree where and when they will be - but satellite orbits are impossible on a non-rotating earth, and impossible on a flat earth, and even more impossible in a world where there is no such thing as gravity but only magnetism!

and gravity -- which is why 'they' have to make a fuss over it not existing -- because on their disc model, gravity should pull towards the north pole, always. anything you drop would only fall straight down at the pole. the further you are from it, the steeper the angle everything should fall at, so that our aussie friends should drop a rock and see it land several feet away toward the north! shoot, they shouldn't even be able to stand up straight! we would all be falling over all the time.

GGW isn't presenting the 'official' FE explanation for this. the president of the modern FE society ((yes, lol, there really is such a thing)) says that the reality is the earth is constantly accelerating 'upward' and that this is what causes gravity, not mass. that's equally bogus, though for other reasons ((one being that the earth would have had to be accelerating for at least 6,000 years, so that right now we're all going something like 300x light speed!! there are obvious effects of traveling that fast that we simply don't see))

 

[posthuman]

It is odd with so many proofs in your everyday experience anyone would think the
world was flat.

yes

i've been talking to people who believe this -- and considering everything such people say - for over 20 years. i have degrees in physics, and when you tell people you're studying that, all kinds of strange beliefs about physics come out of the woodwork, whether they want to inform you of a conspiracy they imagine, or they want to ask you about every strange thing they've heard.
being trained in science is to be trained to look at things objectively and reason through them, pushing aside emotional responses and gut-reactions. so as much as anyone who believes this will typically accuse anyone who questions and rejects the idea of "not having thought about it" or "not caring to know" -- i have thought these things through, and to a degree further than i think almost any of them have.

i say that i don't believe most of them have really thought this through, because you start running into contradictory and obviously false implications pretty quickly -- and most of these don't get answered.
but the facts probably really are, that people do think these things through; i both don't give them enough credit, and also give them 'too much credit' in another sense.
because there are so many clear and obvious proofs, and glaring problems and contradictions, what i'm kind of forced into accepting about such people is that they have a mental issue, which i suspect is caused by a spiritual issue, not a physical one. thinking these things through, and finding that they must be false, they must reject knowledge, and reject understanding, in favor of ignorance, confusion and irrationality. in order to retain this FE belief, they must
think irrationally and consciously reject clear observation and unequivocal proofs. it is like the world, rejecting light in order to remain in darkness.

why do people act in such a way?
if we were talking about the gospel, and why people reject it -- then the answer is clear, because according to scripture, it is the wickedness of men, and their sinful, broken nature, that causes them to love the darkness and hate the light. the people who rejected the living Jesus Christ in the flesh saw many great signs and heard many marvelous truths coming from His mouth - but they rejected Him. this was not rational thought; this was divine hardening of their hearts and spiritual blindness and darkening of their minds. the scripture says of them, "they could not believe" ((John 12:37-41))
it was not a conscious decision on their part, but as it were, a spiritual sickness inflicted on them, for the purpose of God and His election and His pleasure to humble all mankind, to save on the basis of His own mercy and on the merits of no man under heaven.

So these people too, must experience a similar hardening. a darkening of their minds - and this also fulfills the sure word of prophecy, that men hated knowledge, and despised understanding, and though knowledge increases, and light shines as the morning draws near, they hid themselves in darkness and did not comprehend the light, but reject and flee from it, all the while in their vanity imagining that they are 'choosing' the wise path and those who believe the truth are fools.

what do you think, Peter?
is this not also judgement from God, to make fools out of people who appear wise in their own eyes?

GGW, GaryA, and others, i am sorry, for the implication of what i am saying here for you in particular: that you are greatly deceived, and that your minds are under the judgement of God to be darkened in your counsel because of sin -- but if you hear this now, and you can overcome in yourself the emotional reaction to hate me for speaking the truth, then turn to God and look for His mercy, that He should change you, and redeem you, so that HE will show you mercy! because mercy is what He desires, and what He intends for all of us.
if you are able to comprehend what i say now, then His light shines on you - embrace it, and run to Him, because He forgives, and He breaks and creates - He loves, and His mercy lasts forever!!

 

[posthuman]

i was in another forum for a little while, in which if i were to say that there is an 'issue' with another person's mind, i would be reprimanded and kicked out of the thread, threatened to be removed from the whole place.

because in that place, they love themselves more than the truth, and think that the greatest sin is to hurt someone's feelings, even at the expense of the truth, or at the expense of the gospel.

i left that place.

i praise God that thank Him that i have freedom here to express what is in my heart!
i don't say that 'y'all are nuts' our of malice, but from love, and concern for your minds and souls.

thank God that in this place, i am able to tell the truth without fear! even when that truth is a sword that severs heart and body, stabbing down to the very center of an human being, causing much grief and discomfort!

 

[Lynx]

For some reason I'm reminded of this:

 

[posthuman]

For some reason I'm reminded of this:

HAHAHA

i am totally *borrowing* this and sending it to some friends

 

[Lynx]

Ain't mine, it's an xkcd. And I think the author CC licensed it, you can do whatever you want with it as long as you don't try to make money off it.

 

[GaryA]

You've lost it Gary, and I thank God that I have the freedom to tell you that bluntly.

I haven't lost anything - I am perfectly sane. In fact, I have "gained" in the realm of understanding of the true nature of the world we live in - and, the extent to which Satan is "at work" in the world - and, the extent of the lies that he has propagated in order to hide the true nature of the world we live in.

"Don't worry --- you'll understand later on..."

 

[GaryA]

One thing I wonder about with this whole conspiracy thing. Que bono?

Let's assume the whole round-earth idea is a lie, and scientists have been conspiring to trick us into believing the earth is round when it is in fact flat. Why would they want to make us believe it is round? How does anybody benefit in the slightest?

It's not keeping anybody out of Heaven.

It's not making anybody any money.

It's not making any sense.

Really, if the earth is flat there is no profit for the devil and no money to gain for the "powers that be" to lie about it being a ball. Why would anybody bother?

You don't believe that "hiding God" is profitable for Satan? You don't think that the big-bang / huge-expanding-universe / evolution tale -- that makes man out to be an insignificant-spec-of-nothing instead of the most-significant crown-of-creation that God made man to be -- is sending people by the millions / billions to hell?

Do you know just how much [ tax-payer ] money NASA makes...?????

You are not looking at a large enough picture. Step-back-a-ways...

Part of what it is about -- is -- promoting "the whole 'sun god' thing"; however, what it is mostly about is -- "hiding God" ----- because -- 'Flat Earth' [ just ] absolutely "screams" - [ that ] "God exists"...

Gary - Deception on the scale you need, needs a motivation behind the people.
Most of these people get paid a salary to do a simple job and most of that job
works on the concept of truth. What is done is open, transparent and true.

It is how our schools, businesses, science works. It is the agreed basis and has
delivered the technology and advances we see everyday including the computers
we use here, and the phones we all possess.

So either this is true and you are wrong, or this is all a lie and you are right.
I know what I go with.

I wrote post #263 as an answer to the questions Lynx asked in post #262. It should be read with regard to his questions, based on his assumption.

He is saying that he does not understand how there could be any benefit / profit in it; I am saying that there is 'plenty' of benefit / profit in it.

 

[GaryA]

GGW, GaryA, and others, i am sorry, for the implication of what i am saying here for you in particular: that you are greatly deceived, and that your minds are under the judgement of God to be darkened in your counsel because of sin -- but if you hear this now, and you can overcome in yourself the emotional reaction to hate me for speaking the truth, .../QUOTE]
I do not hate you. I never have, and do not ever intend to. However, you seem to be judging my spiritual condition?

What you do not yet understand is [ that ] --- you -- and the majority of the entire population of the Earth -- has been greatly deceived... I know it sounds crazy to you, but --- we were all "born into" a whole system of lies - lies of Satan - the extent and height of which is enormous -- "totally unbelievable" for most people, unfortunately...

 

[GaryA]

In fact, I have "gained" in the realm of understanding of the true nature of the world we live in - and, the extent to which Satan is "at work" in the world - and, the extent of the lies that he has propagated in order to hide the true nature of the world we live in.

By no means whatsoever am I saying that this is any kind of "special" knowledge. IT IS NOT. It is freely available to anyone who is willing to "have eyes to see" and desire to know the [ real ] truth above all else.