The Eschatology of Israel

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
735
259
63
#1
It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them!

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding.
NC
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
1,137
980
113
#2
It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them!

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding.
NC
Wow, thank you for this breath of truth. The modern day practice of ignoring the First Testament causes a great deal of error and misunderstanding and leads many away from the truth.

Great post!
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
13,923
7,843
113
#3
Nicely said, thank you-
" Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!"
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
735
259
63
#4
Wow, thank you for this breath of truth. The modern day practice of ignoring the First Testament causes a great deal of error and misunderstanding and leads many away from the truth.

Great post!
Hi, and thanks much for the encouraging reply and compliments! Of course, presently the Jews have no covenant with God but will ever remain in union with Him; they are just presently out of fellowship with Him. The law has been "taken away" (Heb 10:9; 7:18, 19; 8:7). This answers to why there will be a new and final covenant with Israel.

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
735
259
63
#5
Nicely said, thank you-
" Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!"
Hi, and thanks you too for the compliment! God bless!!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,041
6,864
113
62
#6
The only way to God is through Christ. There is but one mediator between God and man...the man Christ Jesus.
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,189
433
83
Pennsylvania
#7
It sounds crazy to teach what is in this post, but it’s just what I believe personally, after two and a half decades of Biblical research. Many attempt to relate Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27 to Jews who convert to Christianity, but it's actually a new covenant for Israel which will still involve "law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27), and "ordinances" (Eze 11:20). Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son; with the Father raising Him to save believers. Many Jews truly love God and He them!

It is my belief that there will be two groups of people who shall be saved: those who believe in the Lord Jesus, and the Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus, but believe in God (Jn 14:1 – “Ye believe in God” KJV). Those believing in Christ will inherit the New Heaven; those believing in God only, inherit the New Earth, the final “promise” of inheriting the “land.” Scripture always speaks of the Jews inheriting the “Land” (New Earth). Jews who desire to inherit the New Heaven must believe in the Lord Jesus or they cannot enter here.

I do not think it easy, especially of being sure, that God would abandon His “people” after four millennia of Him working with them, repetitiously bringing them back to Himself after continuous straying. I say “straying” because this type of disobedience doesn’t detract their belief in Him, and there is much ignorance in their disobedience, and is why God will never fail to restore them to fellowship. Presently Israel is out of fellowship with God for not believing in His Son, but will never be out of union with Him. Their belief in God gains them union with Him; their obedience to God gains them also fellowship with Him!

It’s my belief that God will not abandon Israel after four millennia now of dealing with restoring them back to Himself after straying; not in unbelief, but disobedience. The Jews who will be in unbelief will perish (Rom 11:20; Heb 3:19; 4:6), along with the non-Christian Gentiles.

He will finally restore Israel’s fellowship to Himself, this time “causing” them to be obedient (Eze 36:27); same as the born again saint being caused to “please” God (Phil 2:13). Presently, Israel is not in fellowship with God for disbelieving in His Son, but will finally restore them to fellowship after seeing the Lord Jesus at the rapture. But those who do not believe in Christ before they see Him will miss the “blessing” (Jn 20:29) of inheriting the New Heaven; but God’s plan is that His people Israel will inherit the New Earth, and the Christians inherit the New Heaven—ruling with the Lord Jesus over the New Earth.

Most will not understand these teachings because they will never be taught as common doctrine. It’s also my belief that God is so protective of Israel—His “people,” to the point that most of the teachings of Israel’s eschatology requires much Scriptural-inference to determine their understanding.
NC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont agree with all your comments but you are on to some things.

I see the resurrection /rapture at Rev 14:14-16 but those left behind are all unrighteous and enter the bowl judgements.

At the end of the Tribulation there is a Judgement called the sheep/goat judgment. Nations are all gentiles and even the sheep were righteouis but saved only because they helped the fleeing jews from the antichrist. So, they were saved by works. Not grace thru faith in our Lord which ended at Rev 14.

1/3 of the jews will enter the Kingdom of God without judgement but with flesh and blood along with the sheep to repopulate the earth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,096
30,223
113
#8
The only way to God is through Christ. There is but one mediator between God and man...the man Christ Jesus.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

John 10:9 I am the gate. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved.

John 11:25b "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in Me will live, even though he dies."

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other
name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.



Acts 4:12 plus 1 Timothy 2:5

Psalm 62:1-2; Acts 4:12; Philippians 2:9
:)
 
Jun 2, 2022
83
41
18
#9
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
4,822
2,084
113
#10
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Romans 11 says Jews have been blinded for a time. But there will come a time when they will accept the Messiah.
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
735
259
63
#11
The only way to God is through Christ. There is but one mediator between God and man...the man Christ Jesus.
Yes, this is Christianity. But it's my belief that He is going to do something different with Israel, the Jews who believe in God ("Ye believe in God" - Jn 14:1 KJV).
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,041
6,864
113
62
#13
Yes, this is Christianity. But it's my belief that He is going to do something different with Israel, the Jews who believe in God ("Ye believe in God" - Jn 14:1 KJV).
Under what covenant?
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
735
259
63
#14
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
The Jews who believe in God but not in Christ cannot call God their "Father." This answers to the reason we see do not see in the OT the phrase "children of God." Israel doesn't honor God, but will, after they see His Son; and this will be too late to inherit sonship with God. They will continue as the "people of God."
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
735
259
63
#15
Under what covenant?
It's my belief that the present covenant that Christians are under is not a covenant with man and God like Israel had, but with the Lord Jesus Blood. The Father raised Christ after procuring salvation for believers. We aren't part of the covenant like Israel will be with their final new law covenant (Jer 31:31-33); Christians are recipients of the present Covenant of Redemption (Heb 13:20, 21).
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,041
6,864
113
62
#16
It's my belief that the present covenant that Christians are under is not a covenant with man and God like Israel had, but with the Lord Jesus Blood. The Father raised Christ after procuring salvation for believers. We aren't part of the covenant like Israel will be with their final new law covenant (Jer 31:31-33); Christians are recipients of the present Covenant of Redemption (Heb 13:20, 21).
I believe you are right about the NC being between Father and Son. But the covenant spoken of in Jeremiah and Ezekiel are the NC.
Jesus came first to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. They largely rejected Him. But not all. Those who were of the seed of Abraham entered into the covenant of grace.
I find 2 problems with your argument:
1. A works covenant always ends in death...by works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
2. Another covenant would mean the partition has not been torn down. There would be a difference between Jew and Greek.
Can you reconcile these 2 things?
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,189
433
83
Pennsylvania
#17
Isn't the resurrection at Rev 20:4, 5?
Those who think Post-Trib may think so, but No. Many scriptures to be fulfilled, Last Trump, Days shortened, Blessed 1335th day of the Tribulation and remember what happens at Rev 14 was foretold In Matthew 13 in the parable of the wheat and Tares as well in Acts 2 when Joel said-Great and Terrible but Peter said Great and Glorious Day of the Lord.

The 1000 year reign of Christ is the Day of the Lord but begins Between Last Trump and bowl judgements. Why this time is so terrible-about 3.3 years or 1185 days
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
735
259
63
#18
I believe you are right about the NC being between Father and Son. But the covenant spoken of in Jeremiah and Ezekiel are the NC.
It doesn't mention the Church, just Israel and Judah.

Jesus came first to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
It's my understanding that Jesus came only to the Jews, and sent His Apostles to the Gentiles.[/QUOTE]
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,370
1,077
113
#19
Besides, the Christians final and New Covenant is the "Covenant of Redemption" which is not a covenant between God and man, like Israel's coming New Covenant, but is between the Father and the Son;
You realize that Jesus Christ (the Son of God) is a man, right?
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,189
433
83
Pennsylvania
#20
Weren't all the first christians jews, the 3000 thousand in Acts 2, and the 5000 in Acts 4

28 As regards the gospel they are enemies of God, for your sake; but as regards election they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable. 30 Just as you were once disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all men to disobedience, that he may have mercy upon all.