The essential characteristics of the Biblical Jesus

[Bowman]

the claim that the koran is a copied and converted-into-arabic christian bible looks outlandish to me... but, I like to keep an open mind, so I'm willing to check it out.

this is where the verification issue comes up. if I check the two translations at

https://carm.org/quran-4

I find writing that sounds very biblical in many places... but a few key differences, imo.


but I think Bowman says these aren't good translations.

so, I need url's (since this is an intenet forum) that will support the claim.

without other sources, I have to go with the two at carm.org, which don't support the claim.

Here’s a bit more context showing how the authors of the Koran openly admit that they converted previous scripture into Arabic…

والكتب المبين إنا جعلنه قرءنا عربيا لعلكم تعقلون وإنه في أم الكتب لدينا لعلي حكيم​

Waalkitabi almubeeni inna jaAAalnahu qur-anan AAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona wa-innahu fee ommi alkitabi ladayna laAAaliyyun hakeemun

And The Book, the clear. Truly we have made it an Arabic collection, perhaps you comprehend. And truly it, in company with the source, from The Book, eminent, full of wisdom. (43.2 – 4)



These ayahs openly confess that the Holy Bible (alkitabi) was converted into (jaAAalnahu) an Arabic collection (Koran).

The authors’ even go so far as to ask if you can comprehend what has taken place.

Finally, they even state that this converted Koranic collection is in company with its source, the Holy Bible.

Thus, when the Koran proclaims all the Biblical things such as Jesus Christ being singularly crucified until death upon the Cross, and then singular resurrected three days later, and that He is the Son, etc, etc….followers of islam should not get all bent out of shape, as this is what is written in the Arabic of their book of faith.

 

[Dan_473]

say, Bowman, here's an idea... and maybe you've thought of this already, maybe tried it...

is spending time posting these ideas on a christian forum the most efficient way to get them out there?

if you were to focus on experts in classical arabic... academics who write papers in journals and stuff... persuade them that your ideas are worth writing about... then there would be other sources to support what you say...

as it is, pretty much all of us here on cc are in the same boat as the average muslim... we would have to learn arabic before we could check out what you say.

so as a matter of efficiency... wouldn't arabic experts be a better focus?

as I said, maybe you've already thought of this.

 

[Dan_473]

Here’s a bit more context showing how the authors of the Koran openly admit that they converted previous scripture into Arabic…

والكتب المبين إنا جعلنه قرءنا عربيا لعلكم تعقلون وإنه في أم الكتب لدينا لعلي حكيم​

Waalkitabi almubeeni inna jaAAalnahu qur-anan AAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona wa-innahu fee ommi alkitabi ladayna laAAaliyyun hakeemun

And The Book, the clear. Truly we have made it an Arabic collection, perhaps you comprehend. And truly it, in company with the source, from The Book, eminent, full of wisdom. (43.2 – 4)



These ayahs openly confess that the Holy Bible (alkitabi) was converted into (jaAAalnahu) an Arabic collection (Koran).

The authors’ even go so far as to ask if you can comprehend what has taken place.

Finally, they even state that this converted Koranic collection is in company with its source, the Holy Bible.

Thus, when the Koran proclaims all the Biblical things such as Jesus Christ being singularly crucified until death upon the Cross, and then singular resurrected three days later, and that He is the Son, etc, etc….followers of islam should not get all bent out of shape, as this is what is written in the Arabic of their book of faith.

well, an idea repeated several times in scripture: the support of two or three witnesses.

so, two witness at
https://carm.org/quran-43
say something different from what you're saying.

if you have url's of sources that we can read online, will confirm what you say, and are clearly independent of yourself, please post them.

 

[Bowman]

say, Bowman, here's an idea... and maybe you've thought of this already, maybe tried it...

is spending time posting these ideas on a christian forum the most efficient way to get them out there?

if you were to focus on experts in classical arabic... academics who write papers in journals and stuff... persuade them that your ideas are worth writing about... then there would be other sources to support what you say...

as it is, pretty much all of us here on cc are in the same boat as the average muslim... we would have to learn arabic before we could check out what you say.

so as a matter of efficiency... wouldn't arabic experts be a better focus?

as I said, maybe you've already thought of this.

You can lead a horse to water....but you cannot make him drink.

I showed you, at least twice, a one-stop resource book that proclaims many of the things that I have already stated.

Have you even looked at it?

Do you EVER plan on looking at it?

For people like you, Dan, who are more interested in banging-out your next reply....will never even go there in the first place...

 

[Dan_473]

You can lead a horse to water....but you cannot make him drink.

I showed you, at least twice, a one-stop resource book that proclaims many of the things that I have already stated.

Have you even looked at it?

Do you EVER plan on looking at it?

For people like you, Dan, who are more interested in banging-out your next reply....will never even go there in the first place...

if you mean the book at amazon, it's just that... a book at amazon... I'll be glad to look at it... I don't plan on buying it.

it can't be read online... for free.

so, I'll rephrase:
if you have url's of sources that we can read online
for free,
will confirm what you say, and are clearly independent of yourself, please post them.

 

[Dan_473]

here's a webpage from an academic journal about a book that explores some details of the koran

Recovering the Female Voice in Islamic Scripture: Women and Silence By Georgina L. Jardim


and an email address of the book reviewer:

[email protected]


an efficient use of time might be to write Mary Hossain, and see if she sees promise in your ideas about Jesus & the koran.

if you can get her in your "camp", then that may well be a way to get some attention from the editors of the journal, so that they can take a look at papers you've written, and include them in the journal.

 

[Bowman]

if you mean the book at amazon, it's just that... a book at amazon... I'll be glad to look at it... I don't plan on buying it.

it can't be read online... for free.

so, I'll rephrase:
if you have url's of sources that we can read online
for free,
will confirm what you say, and are clearly independent of yourself, please post them.

How about some sites that give cash-back, Dan...would that be even better?

 

[Dan_473]

yes, cash back would be even better... but those are pretty rare.

I'm excited about this idea of you contacting experts who can properly evaluate things like participles in arabic.


because, see... the details you present require expert-level arabic skills and experience to properly evaluate. that's not happening here on cc.

why spend time writing to us when there's contact information for experts?

 

[psalm6819]

why are you guys wasting your time?

This man has more interest in the koran than the Bible...

and is in love with the sound of his own voice.......not God's.

 

[psalm6819]

Frankly, most people don't know what faith is.

Most just ride on the modern definition that it must be blind and without merit.

But....the Biblical definition has always had faith as pertaining to rock-solid truth and conviction...culminating in the Triune Creator.

So...don't let anyone belittle you when you tell them you are taking the Holy Bible on 'faith'....

and you do? what does the koran say about faith?

 

[psalm6819]

You are shooting from the hip, again.

Try actually studying the Greek behind the passages that you posited.

You are still attempting to blend-in a modern definition of faith with the Biblical definition – which has always had the meaning, even in the OT, as ‘acting upon established Truth’.

Biblical Faith is an action.

This action of ‘having’, (echōn) is in the sense of ‘wearing’ according to the Greek - which you could have very easily surmised had you bothered to look.

Furthermore, The Trinity is expressed in numerous locations in the Arabic of the Koran, should you ever want to go there...

The Trinity???? ummmm I seem to recall a book called..... ummmmm

yes, that's it..the Holy Bible that says something about it, too

ever heard of it?

 

[slave]

You would be surprised what you can learn from your 'enemy'.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer...

You know I love a certain tennis shoe. They are Nikes and although I really don't care about the brand name the shoes just have that perfect thing I look for in a tennis shoe. It supports me better than any other brand I have tried. It is extremely comforting when pain from hitting the road wants to overtake me. They fit my personality best in the way they make me look. In the same way I wouldn't have cared if someone outside of Christ gave me what Jesus does originally. But experientially I have found no one, nor any god that can supply me with what i need. Because God tells me He created me it doesn't surprise me that God fits me in comfort and support best over the god whom offers me no hope. From my experiences I have come to some conclusions that God need not be compared to any longer. I am content with God like I am content with my shoes. Need I wear adidas on Mondays to compare them to gain new goodness, or just to learn from them, maybe magically they will be designed differently?, over the better fit I currently wear? Must I really keep my enemy closer to learn from them? Another thought is whom is our enemy? Doesn't the Word say, not against flesh and blood?

You are right about one thing though I would be surprised what I can learn from my enemy, based on what i just said. So would Jesus: "But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people." (1 Corinthians 5:11).

Just a footnote question: when you posted my quotation why did you shrink the lettering was it just a bit uncomfortable not to?

 

[roaringkitten]

...I believe that I have 'an inside scoop'...

Dan, you keep asking him for links to prove his assertions(look at all the pages), so have many other CC users and he just keeps going around the merry go round with us. He laughs, mocks and makes fun of anyone who dares question his "holy grail discovery". He still cannot prove Muhammad, allah, from the Bible only. One doesn't win Muslims to Christ by going to their book. They are won by going to the Scriptures! The Bible says:

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39

It doesn't say "search the Koran" or another outside source, it says search the Scriptures! You want to show a Muslim Christ? He's in the Scriptures! There is not one example in the Word of any apostle or Jesus, using any other book than the Scriptures to preach the truth! For example:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" Acts 17:2

Did he reason with them out of a heathen book? No! Us Christians need to model our outreach according to the Word of God. Paul preached Christ from the Scriptures, so should we, no exceptions!

 

[RobbyEarl]

The Koran gives you the ability to lie as long as it furthers Islam that's why you can't make a deal with them. They are murders and when they run out of people to kill, they start killing each other. There is no message of love. Even mild Muslims support and agree with the radicals, meaning that they are all radicals and they push for Sharia law wherever they are. Sharia law is not very kind to women nor black people even considering black people as subhuman and no chance for heaven.

 

[Bowman]

yes, cash back would be even better... but those are pretty rare.

I'm excited about this idea of you contacting experts who can properly evaluate things like participles in arabic.


because, see... the details you present require expert-level arabic skills and experience to properly evaluate. that's not happening here on cc.

why spend time writing to us when there's contact information for experts?

How are you qualified to make that assertion, Dan?

 

[Bowman]

why are you guys wasting your time?

This man has more interest in the koran than the Bible...

and is in love with the sound of his own voice.......not God's.

No.

I have a keen interest in understanding the scripture set of the world's largest Christian cult.

So do a few others following this thread...

 

[Bowman]

and you do? what does the koran say about faith?

The Koran points the reader back to its source, the Holy Bible.

 

[Bowman]

You know I love a certain tennis shoe. They are Nikes and although I really don't care about the brand name the shoes just have that perfect thing I look for in a tennis shoe. It supports me better than any other brand I have tried. It is extremely comforting when pain from hitting the road wants to overtake me. They fit my personality best in the way they make me look. In the same way I wouldn't have cared if someone outside of Christ gave me what Jesus does originally. But experientially I have found no one, nor any god that can supply me with what i need. Because God tells me He created me it doesn't surprise me that God fits me in comfort and support best over the god whom offers me no hope. From my experiences I have come to some conclusions that God need not be compared to any longer. I am content with God like I am content with my shoes. Need I wear adidas on Mondays to compare them to gain new goodness, or just to learn from them, maybe magically they will be designed differently?, over the better fit I currently wear? Must I really keep my enemy closer to learn from them? Another thought is whom is our enemy? Doesn't the Word say, not against flesh and blood?

You are right about one thing though I would be surprised what I can learn from my enemy, based on what i just said. So would Jesus: "But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people." (1 Corinthians 5:11).

Just a footnote question: when you posted my quotation why did you shrink the lettering was it just a bit uncomfortable not to?

Since Satan is presently bound, our ever-present enemy are the free-ranging demons.

Islam is a safe-house for demons, as they have mis-interpreted their scripture set, and have turned it into a twisted carnal nightmare.

Islam represents what can happen when ignorance gets behind scriptural mis-interpretation.

Be a Berean, and study your scriptures..

 

[Bowman]

Dan, you keep asking him for links to prove his assertions(look at all the pages), so have many other CC users and he just keeps going around the merry go round with us. He laughs, mocks and makes fun of anyone who dares question his "holy grail discovery". He still cannot prove Muhammad, allah, from the Bible only. One doesn't win Muslims to Christ by going to their book. They are won by going to the Scriptures! The Bible says:

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39

It doesn't say "search the Koran" or another outside source, it says search the Scriptures! You want to show a Muslim Christ? He's in the Scriptures! There is not one example in the Word of any apostle or Jesus, using any other book than the Scriptures to preach the truth! For example:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" Acts 17:2

Did he reason with them out of a heathen book? No! Us Christians need to model our outreach according to the Word of God. Paul preached Christ from the Scriptures, so should we, no exceptions!

Since Muslims are indoctrinated with the polemic that the Christian Bible is corrupted, the only way to get to most of these people is to show and educate them, with their very own scriptures, just how Jesus is their true God and Savior...and how they need to read the Holy Bible to get the full story.

The world needs more advocates that are trying to spread the Biblical message into the Muslim world, by communicating the original & lost Christian message contained within the pages of the Koran.

What we don't need is more thumb-suckers that can only bark out disdain...

 

[slave]

Try giving the gospel to individuals in England. My Christian friend over there says it will Christians a knuckle sandwich.
One of the religion forums I was on shouted me off the message board because there are individuals who don't want Christians there and will challenge you to get you to quit.

Yes indeed, and this is without question the kind of evil oppression we will face, this is a real fact; and all the more so as the end times continue to close in for sin has a direction -- that towards apostasy where evil is not satisfied within itself but earnestly desires the one whom innocence is showing to wallow also in sin, and its fruits. But fear not for He is with us always even to the ends of the earth.

Remember Jesus had nothing but the same reactions back in his day too. Think of His disciples peril, martyrdom not a fun thought huh? But the question is of logical conclusion in the Spiritual truth found in Christ: How unconditional is Gods Love? If there is no other way to heaven except to let people hear the good news are we to say, "Let them go to hell because I will be persecuted?" Some of us will. But God said, in relationship to the mature and strong in Him: no greater love hath a man than the one who lays down his life for another.

We cannot expect to be treated greater than our Master can we? But we can expect to be held up, and purposed with His blessings and powerful protection toward effective reconciliation. Each circumstance is different but the same Spirit for all His Saints goes before us to make a way. If it is the cost in living for Christ s sake that you cannot allow, read the parable of the talents and see what happens to the guy with the one talent whom dug the ground and hid the masters talents. I would rather face the blessings, and the grind of God at the cost of man than to face the judgement of God yet gain the whole world and be praised by man. England, America, Indonesia, Russia, in all the earth the Spirit of Satan rules the world in men who have not come yet to Jesus, but God also rules men who have believed and received Him and purposes them to "Go" and be the salt of the earth, the light of God to be seen in His Saints recognized as Christ in them. Be encouraged Chuckt God has your back even unto death.