The Falling Away - Is this the rapture?

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Aug 2, 2021
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#22
This is very important what is taking place here - don't miss out - every error of the deceiver is covered in Scripture by TRUTH.

The more they seek to overide Truth the more TRUTH Speaks LOUD and CLEAR - there LIGHT shines thru and more and more Blessings come down from "the Father of Lights with whom there is no shadow of turning."

Every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father - AMEN

Our LORD hates he who sows discord among the Brethren - the error of pre-trib was given a death sentence about 2000 years ago.

Those who seek to raise an idol in the midst of Brethren will not go unpunished by the LORD (not me).
The Holy Spirit uses His Called Out Ones to expose error. The spirit of error knows no bounds and the Holy Spirit will see to it in us who know Him that it is addressed and given the Sword unto death.

Th error of saying the 'falling away' is pre-trib rapture must and will be addressed according to the Word.

Do you know the Apostle and what he said who agreed with 2 Thess 2
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#23

TheDivineWatermark

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#24
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#25
Are you referring to "Acts 21:21" by saying this ^ , or what? Just asking for clarification (I'm not quite grasping your question, in particular, here)






____________

And @DavidTree , another question I would have for you, specifically, is one I put in another post:

Post #1262 - https://christianchat.com/threads/h...ular-in-the-modern-church.201091/post-4660581
A big No-Go on Acts21:21.
How did you ever arrive at that scripture in relation to 2 Thess 2:1-4?
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#26
A big No-Go on Acts21:21.
How did you ever arrive at that scripture in relation to 2 Thess 2:1-4?
I was asking because I desired clarification on just WHAT YOUR QUESTION / STATEMENT was on about (I could not tell what you meant, there).


I only mentioned "Acts 21:21" because it uses the same "G646 [apostasia / apostasian]" word (used in 2Th2:3--the word under present discussion)... I couldn't really tell what else you might have been speaking about (I can't really understand what your words meant--the ones I quoted of yours, there).

So I ASKED. = )
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#27
Taking verses in isolation is not always helpful. Yes, we will be seeing the falling away spiritually as people increase in lawlessness. This began in the 60's. I was young then and I did not understand what I was seeing. We are seeing the love of many grow cold. Has there been a more selfish, entitled, irresponsible generation? Parents glued to screens while their kids despair of getting their attention. Kids running rampant with no discipline and no consequences. Women lording it over their husbands and men treating women like dirt.

There never were any good old days. But it seems to me that life has become much easier for most people, yet people have become hard of heart and caring only for themselves. That is, of course, a generalisation. But I know what I've seen over the last 55 years. It's not pretty.

Some Christians (including me) believe that verse 7 clarifies this

. …6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

Who is the one who restrains lawlessness? I believe the Holy Spirit. And where is the Holy Spirit now? In the Church. When the Church is taken up, there will be no more restraint. Satan will be free to do as he pleases. For a time.
I just noticed this truth mixed with error at the very bottom of your post =
"Who is the one who restrains lawlessness? I believe the Holy Spirit. And where is the Holy Spirit now? In the Church. When the Church is taken up, there will be no more restraint. Satan will be free to do as he pleases. For a time."

The Church is not referred to in 2 Thess 2:7

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The "He" is only the Holy Spirit - the He is not the Church.

The HOLY SPIRIT is not REMOVED from the Church or from the Heavens including earth (do not say He is earthbound - wrong again).

The error of pre-trib continues to make many errors and serious judgment will fall on each of those errors. It is like a driver who refuses to pull over for the police and it turns into a high speed chase that eventually crashes - many, many violations committed - so is the error of pre-trib.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#28
I was asking because I desired clarification on just WHAT YOUR QUESTION / STATEMENT was on about (I could not tell what you meant, there).


I only mentioned "Acts 21:21" because it uses the same "G646 [apostasia / apostasian]" word (used in 2Th2:3--the word under present discussion)... I couldn't really tell what else you might have been speaking about (I can't really understand what your words meant--the ones I quoted of yours, there).

So I ASKED. = )
Here is all the related info to this Thread with the Question - if you can find the answer(s) and the clues are given for you.

The Apostle Paul combines the clear warning of the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 with His Second Coming and the "Falling Away"
in 2 Thess 2:1-3.


This next verse pertains to this thread in a most important way - Matthew 18:15-16
If your brother sins against you, go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

There are Three Witnesses who testify that the falling away is indeed a departure from the Gospel.

Those who seek to establish the error of a pre-trib rapture uses the 'falling away' in 2 Thess 2 to say that this Scripture is the "departure / rapture of the saints - this is sin by changing Scripture which is forbidden by God.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

Can you find those Three Witnesses words from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle John.

The First Witness you have from Paul - Can you find the other Two Scripture verses/passages that Witness to the TRUTH.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#29
All I really want to add to that the word for "falling away" in 2 Thess. 2:3 is apostasia. In the Strong's concordance it is labeled as G646.

G646 apostasia is used again in one other place in the Bible, Acts 21:21.

21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

The "falling away" is literally about commiting apostasy. The word used for departure or moving to a different geographical location is an entirely different word.

Interpreting the falling away as a pre-trib rapture is not a valid interpretation of 2 Thess. 2:3.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#30
I was asking because I desired clarification on just WHAT YOUR QUESTION / STATEMENT was on about (I could not tell what you meant, there).


I only mentioned "Acts 21:21" because it uses the same "G646 [apostasia / apostasian]" word (used in 2Th2:3--the word under present discussion)... I couldn't really tell what else you might have been speaking about (I can't really understand what your words meant--the ones I quoted of yours, there).

So I ASKED. = )
Great - got it - i also do the same - see where the same word is used again in Scripture - very good/excellent.

However that is not the Scripture that perfectly aligns Itself with 2 Thess 2:3
 

Icedaisey

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#31
I believe when the pre-trib rapture arrives we will have no doubt it's here.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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#32
The word used for departure or moving to a different geographical location is an entirely different word.
"apostasia" is the SAME word as "apostasis" ... meaning, "a standing away from [away from a previous standing]" or "departure"... [i.e. apo stasis]... according to Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon (1871)... I posted that link before...



.... AS WELL AS according to the following Greek Grammar (source):


[quoting]

"A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament: Regarded as a Sure Basis" by George Benedikt Winer (pgs 24-25):

"d) Many words which had long been in use received a new form or pronunciation by which the older was in most cases superceded: as [...] apostasia (apostasis, Lob. p. 528), [...]"



[found on pgs 24-25]

-- https://books.google.com/books?id=i7kC8UOe-4cC&pg=PA24&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=true


[end quoting from source; underline mine]




-- George Benedikt Winer - 1789-1858
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#33
I believe when the pre-trib rapture arrives we will have no doubt it's here.
If you seek after a lie you will be greatly troubled by it - just as our Lord said.

They say 'ignorance is bliss' - not here and not ever.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Can you SEE that our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ said "by no means" will a pre-trib rapture take place before the Resurrection of the dead in Christ.

They say 'ignorance is bliss' - not here and not ever.
 

Icedaisey

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#34
If you seek after a lie you will be greatly troubled by it - just as our Lord said.

They say 'ignorance is bliss' - not here and not ever.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Can you SEE that our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ said "by no means" will a pre-trib rapture take place before the Resurrection of the dead in Christ.

They say 'ignorance is bliss' - not here and not ever.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 that we are not appointed to wrath.
Luke 21:36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."


A post tribulation rapture? How would there be anyone left for the kingdom age?
Revelation 3:10
Matthew 25 tells us unbelievers shall not see the kingdom age.

Revelation chapters 4 and 5 are about the church before God's wrath poured out upon the earth in Revelation 6.
 
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#35
It has been strongly suggested that the "falling away" as spoken by the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is the pre-trib rapture.
We who are His Body, as Belonging to Christ, must know the His answer from His Word so as not to be decieved.

When the Disciples asked our Lord Jesus Christ about His Return(the Second Coming) He gave this immediate Commandment & Warning.

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. - Matthew 24: 3-4

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thess 2:1-4

The Apostle Paul combines the clear warning of the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 with His Second Coming and the "Falling Away".

So is the "falling away" = the departure in the form of a pre-trib rapture or is it a "falling away" a departure from truth = the Gospel?
Why the world rebels against God.

1. Evolution.

2. Gave birth to the new age movement that interprets the Bible, and religions according to the occult and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual.

3. The occult believes in astrology, horoscope, and this is the age of Aquarius the age of peace so they will try to pursue that peace on earth for they believe nature would want them to do that so they will harmonize the nations governments and religions with all religions interpreted according to the new age movement.

4. They do not believe the New Age Christ will help them to evolve and have peace until the nations come together as one and work for peace on earth a global government and global religion so they will work on that.

5. The New Age Christ will be of the new age movement and the occult and when he works in the world he will push the agenda of the new age movement until the world rebels against God.

6. Technology that caused them to be able to communicate with each other to come together but it is not according to the will of God.

The new age movement the beginning of the end.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God warns the saints of the new age movement, and their interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual provided by the New Age Christ, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and love, and the Christ conscience came upon him, and he evolved to be an ascended master, and believe in no personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher, and he will evolve to be greater than Jesus, and share this power with all people who follow him.

They will forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction, and command to abstain from meats, reverence of nature, mother earth.

The new age movement will pave the way to the beast kingdom for all people who do not love God where they will take the mark of the beast, and then repentance and salvation are no longer available to the world, and God will end sin on earth, and have His people will Him.

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables(2 Timothy 4:2-4).

The time will come when the world will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement.

The New Age Christ will establish peace in the Middle East, and work as a great man of peace, and push the agenda of the new age movement in the world to prepare the world for when he claims to be God by harnessing the power of nature, and evolving, and will share this power with all people who follow him.

Alice Bailey the biggest prophet of the new age movement wrote many books speaking of the coming united religious system, one world government, and New Age Christ, and other occult things, and they set up a web site lucistrust.org promoting her books and writing which she interpreted the Bible according to the occult and evolution.

She was married to a Freemason who agreed with her writing, so he is of the inner circle of Freemason, which there is an inner circle and outer circle of the occult, and Alice Bailey said the inner circle is the true church.

The inner circle is too extreme in the occult for mainstream society so they put out a lighter version an outer circle that is more tolerable to the people to get them interested in a light version of the occult.

When the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East he will push the agenda of the new age movement and the people will lust more for power through nature and when the New Age Christ claims to be God and to set up his kingdom the outer circle became the inner circle and the beast kingdom will be accepted by those who do not keep the commandments of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The new age movement has an inner circle as well as Freemason, and the Mormon church, and Scientology, and Christian Science, and churches who have great deception such as them as well as many occult groups.

They are trying to get the world to go in the direction of the New Age Christ kingdom so that Lucifer can set up a kingdom which they believe Lucifer will help people to evolve spiritually.

The esoteric meaning of Lucifer, how they interpret the Bible.

There are comments on the World Wide Web claiming that the Lucis Trust was once called the Lucifer Trust. Such was never the case. However, for a brief period of two or three years in the early 1920’s, when Alice and Foster Bailey were beginning to publish the books published under her name, they named their fledgling publishing company “Lucifer Publishing Company”. By 1925 the name was changed to Lucis Publishing Company and has remained so ever since.Both “Lucifer” and “Lucis” come from the same word root, lucis being the Latin generative case meaning of light. The Baileys' reasons for choosing the original name are not known to us, but we can only surmise that they, like the great teacher H.P. Blavatsky, for whom they had enormous respect, sought to elicit a deeper understanding of the sacrifice made by Lucifer. Alice and Foster Bailey were serious students and teachers of Theosophy, a spiritual tradition which views Lucifer as one of the solar Angels, those advanced Beings Who Theosophy says descended (thus “the fall”) from Venus to our planet eons ago to bring the principle of mind to what was then animal-man. In the theosophical perspective, the descent of these solar Angels was not a fall into sin or disgrace but rather an act of great sacrifice, as is suggested in the name “Lucifer” which means light-bearer.

The falling away is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel which the nations will come together as one and stop the preaching of the Gospel on a world wide level only allowing the new age movement to be preached and taught.

This will allow the man of sin, New Age Christ to be able to rule over them for God will allow the antichrist to deceive all people who do not love Him to follow the New Age Christ which the devils will deceive all people who do not love God which is the strong delusion God will send all people who love not the truth.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#36
A post tribulation rapture? How would there be anyone left for the kingdom age?
A great question I've not seen DavidTree adequately address.

Matthew 25 tells us unbelievers shall not see the kingdom age.
Exactly right (y)


(among a number of other related passages saying the same... That they will not ENTER the MK at its commencement [upon Christ's RETURN to the earth Rev19])
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#37
A great question I've not seen DavidTree adequately address.



Exactly right (y)


(among a number of other related passages saying the same... That they will not ENTER the MK at its commencement [upon Christ's RETURN to the earth Rev19])
ignorance is bliss until it's too late
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#38
1 Thessalonians 5:9 that we are not appointed to wrath.
Luke 21:36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."


A post tribulation rapture? How would there be anyone left for the kingdom age?
Revelation 3:10
Matthew 25 tells us unbelievers shall not see the kingdom age.

Revelation chapters 4 and 5 are about the church before God's wrath poured out upon the earth in Revelation 6.
AMEN and Full Agreement with 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians and the Gospels and Revelation = all the Word.
We, who know the Word, all KNOW that His Bride/His Elect/His Saints/His Children/His Overcomers are NOT appointed to wrath.

This thread is about TRUTH and obedience to the Word.
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. Proverbs 30
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#39
1 Thessalonians 5:9 that we are not appointed to wrath.
Luke 21:36Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."


A post tribulation rapture? How would there be anyone left for the kingdom age?
Revelation 3:10
Matthew 25 tells us unbelievers shall not see the kingdom age.

Revelation chapters 4 and 5 are about the church before God's wrath poured out upon the earth in Revelation 6.
Review and believe all of Revelation and remember the Commandment of our Lord less, you are tempted by pride, religion and unbelief.

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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#40
The Greeks had a word for "FALL" / "TO FALL"... "pipto"... The word in 2Th2:3 is NOT THAT word. ;)

So what? Languages have multiple words to convey something like falling. Apostasia means to fall away from the faith or truth.

G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.
Total KJV occurrences: 2

G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
Thayer Definition:
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: feminine of the same as G647
Citing in TDNT: 1:513, 88

Does this sound like the rapture??


Don't listen to TDW's efforts to alter what this word means. TDW wants to change it's meaning to something else. That's how TDW's scholarship "proves" the pretrib doctrine.