The False Doctrine Most Professing Christians are unaware of.

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you call the New Covenant, the Renewed Covenant?

That's Hebrew Roots

 

[just-me]

Do you believe Christ died to remove the sacrificial system, but not the rules and regulations, and that we remain under the Mosaic Law minus the requirement of sacrifices?

That's Hebrew Roots

You've asked me several questions that I've answered. I have done this in respect to God's commandments which I believe in.

Yes to the first part of your question

No to the second part of your question if you are only referring to the physical aspects with a canal interpretation.

Yes to the second part of your question if you are referring to the spiritual aspects with spiritual interpretations.

Don't perjure yourself by demanding only carnal interpretations thereof. That will only prove yourself as having a carnal mind that is enmity against God.

 

[just-me]

Do you call the New Covenant, the Renewed Covenant?

That's Hebrew Roots

The container of the old is worn out. You know a lot about HRM. I would like to know more as long as you are so educated on them or it. Do they endorse a doctrine that is absent of faith in Christ Jesus? Is their agenda/doctrine for the purpose of emasculating Christ as the true Messiah, and demanding carnal works minus the grace of God?

 

[BenFTW]

No I am not bearing false witness as the link you gave was to one of your own posts, that he turned around and stated his stance once again right after that where he clearly said studying and believing the law does not put one under it.

That also was not the end of the conversation as the communicating still went on from here !!!

You must learn to read what a person is actually saying besides just seeing what you want to, because there is a physical aspect of the law (written ordinances) and a spiritual aspect of the law (moral standards).

The physical written ordinances have no bearing on true born again believers, but the spiritual meanings and aspects do have things that apply. Even the Lord Jesus showed that love, mercy, and forgiveness was shown in the law, but this was overlooked by the Pharisees and the Jews who focused only on the written ordinance aspect.

To say no morals apply in the new covenant for believers then you can go and throw out walking in love as not needed, but love is called the greatest command to be kept. And it is a command not a suggestion !!!

Walking in love is shown in the NT to keep, uphold, and establish the teachings of the Lord in our lives, not abolish His teachings !!!

I seen you come back and still slap that physical law keeping on him for salvation

Again, I did no such thing. Look to my thread Legalism's Mistake: Cause and Effect (Sanctification) and I clearly defined our differences being sanctification. Our difference is a necessity for works (for a true believer). You keep saying I am saying he says we must keep the physical law but that is not where our discussion ended. It ended with sanctification. I disagreed this is through the Law. Get your facts straight before commenting any further. You keep accusing me when in fact you are wrong. He told me multiple times he did not mean to observe the Law carnally but spiritually. I am fully aware of this.

If he didn't have me on ignore maybe we could clear up confusion and clearly define our positions.

PS: Following the Law spiritually through the means of moral Law still isn't biblical. The Law is not to be separated and picked apart, it is a unit (a whole piece), so its either all of it, or none of it. I know, I know... "NOT physical!" you will scream. However, in observing the spiritual it will affect the physical (actions) and I disagree with this as being done through the Law. The Law can show us spiritual principles but we by no means can walk in them to not sin. Knowing what is right and wrong doesn't implicitly cause us to walk in righteousness. Knowing Jesus does, and who we are in Him.

 

[KennethC]

It is speaking of "works" that I have built upon the foundation of Christ:

works either gold, silver, precious stones = obedience
works either wood, hay, stubble are burnt up = disobedience
everyone goes before the judgment seat of Christ for the work done in this body, whether good (obedience) - gold, silver, precious stones, remain
or bad (disobedience) - wood, hay, stubble are burnt up but he, himself, is saved

Please everyone - I am not saying it is okay to sin for it is NOT - or better said it is BEST for us to be in obedience than in disobedience. Remember we all sin and fall short . . . .

That is not what that passage is saying because disobedience is called unbelief, and thus works in the faith are not disobedience.

There is absolutely nothing in that passage that says the hay, wood, and stubble is disobedience, because it says builds on that foundation (Christ) with those that means the amount of faithfulness/obedience done.

Keep on reading because then it goes into speaking on defiling the temple (this is disobedience), and it says here those who do this will be destroyed not saved !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Looks like just-me is playing a little game with us. He asked in this thread > Hebrew Roots Movement < dated July 24, 2015 for info on what Hebrew Roots is.

Would some one please explain to me who they are and what they do? All I know is that they are hated by many on cc - what is going on?

But he asked a similar question in this thread > Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult? < nearly 2 years earlier.

Recently my wife was accused of belonging to a cult called the Hebrew Roots Movement. I didn't know what it was, so I went to this url: What is the Hebrew Roots movement?

 

[KennethC]

Again, I did no such thing. Look to my thread Legalism's Mistake: Cause and Effect (Sanctification) and I clearly defined our differences being sanctification. Our difference is a necessity for works (for a true believer). You keep saying I am saying he says we must keep the physical law but that is not where our discussion ended. It ended with sanctification. I disagreed this is through the Law. Get your facts straight before commenting any further. You keep accusing me when in fact you are wrong. He told me multiple times he did not mean to observe the Law carnally but spiritually. I am fully aware of this.

If he didn't have me on ignore maybe we could clear up confusion and clearly define our positions.

PS: Following the Law spiritually through the means of moral Law still isn't biblical. The Law is not to be separated and picked apart, it is a unit (a whole piece), so its either all of it, or none of it. I know, I know... "NOT physical!" you will scream. However, in observing the spiritual it will affect the physical (actions) and I disagree with this as being done through the Law. The Law can show us spiritual principles but we by no means can walk in them to not sin. Knowing what is right and wrong doesn't implicitly cause us to walk in righteousness. Knowing Jesus does, and who we are in Him.

See what you are saying here, as you said "I clearly defined."

Then you pointed to your own thread and what you have said, I am an outsider to the conversation you two had, and I did see you multiple times make that claim on him about keeping the physical ordinances for salvation.

As for sanctification no that does not come through the law, nor does justification, or glorification............

They all come from the Lord Jesus by our faith in Him and it is a process, not a one time event that happens at minute one of faith. There is absolutely no scripture that says a person is automatically sanctified, justified, and glorified at the very first minute of our faith in Him.

Even Jesus says until repentance is made one will still perish, those who believe and are baptized will be saved, nobody who is born again will inherit the kingdom of heaven, and only those who does the will of the Father will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

The will of God is not just simply believe in the Lord, and then nothing has to follow from there.
For the bible shows a true saving faith in the Lord is an active one full of the fruits, no evidence = no Holy Spirit = no eternal life !!! It is that simple !!!

 

[just-me]

Do you call the New Covenant, the Renewed Covenant?

That's Hebrew Roots

One more question.
Why are you so bent on causing division and labeling people who you really don't know anything about other than what you have speculated according to your own preconceived ideas? Answer that one for me, and pay respect to me as I have toward you.

 

[BenFTW]

See what you are saying here, as you said "I clearly defined."

Then you pointed to your own thread and what you have said, I am an outsider to the conversation you two had, and I did see you multiple times make that claim on him about keeping the physical ordinances for salvation.

As for sanctification no that does not come through the law, nor does justification, or glorification............

They all come from the Lord Jesus by our faith in Him and it is a process, not a one time event that happens at minute one of faith. There is absolutely no scripture that says a person is automatically sanctified, justified, and glorified at the very first minute of our faith in Him.

Even Jesus says until repentance is made one will still perish, those who believe and are baptized will be saved, nobody who is born again will inherit the kingdom of heaven, and only those who does the will of the Father will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

The will of God is not just simply believe in the Lord, and then nothing has to follow from there.
For the bible shows a true saving faith in the Lord is an active one full of the fruits, no evidence = no Holy Spirit = no eternal life !!! It is that simple !!!

The times that I have accused him of physical law keeping was done in ignorance to his belief which we then resolved through discussion in an earlier thread. Do i still think he is into Legalism? I am not sure, but surely it is a form of it from what I understand of his perspective. This, however, can be cleared up if he didn't have me on ignore.

The idea that we "observe" the Law "spiritually", it needs to be clarified to its meaning. Then can anyone clearly see whether he is legalistic or not. He emphasizes the Law as not void, because it is God's spoken word. He then continues on saying we observe it spiritually.

You know what? KennethC, explain Just-me's perspective to us since you seem to so clearly understand it and always come to his defense. Clearly define what it means to observe the law spiritually. Please.

 

[just-me]

Looks like just-me is playing a little game with us. He asked in this thread > Hebrew Roots Movement < dated July 24, 2015 for info on what Hebrew Roots is.



But he asked a similar question in this thread > Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult? < nearly 2 years earlier.

I'm happy that you are finally starting to investigate your accusations by attempting to find proof of your false allegations of me.
Now, you have said things in relation to what the HRM is.
Now it's my turn to explain what a carnal mind is to you by asking leading questions and then defining that my question defines a carnal mind.

Are you incapable of having the incentive by endeavoring to see the spiritual relevance in all of God's word?
If so, this is the incapability of the carnal mind.

Pay me the same respect as I have shown you. If you refuse, then this shows that you don't love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[blondieindahouse]

The times that I have accused him of physical law keeping was done in ignorance to his belief which we then resolved through discussion in an earlier thread. Do i still think he is into Legalism? I am not sure, but surely it is a form of it from what I understand of his perspective. This, however, can be cleared up if he didn't have me on ignore.

The idea that we "observe" the Law "spiritually", it needs to be clarified to its meaning. Then can anyone clearly see whether he is legalistic or not. He emphasizes the Law as not void, because it is God's spoken word. He then continues on saying we observe it spiritually.

You know what? KennethC, explain Just-me's perspective to us since you seem to so clearly understand it and always come to his defense. Clearly define what it means to observe the law spiritually. Please.

"This, however, can be cleared up if he didn't have me on ignore."

Sorry, I was laughing out loud here pondering on how many have me on iggy and how many I have on iggy!
Just struck me tickle bone ole chap
carry on!

 

[KennethC]

The times that I have accused him of physical law keeping was done in ignorance to his belief which we then resolved through discussion in an earlier thread. Do i still think he is into Legalism? I am not sure, but surely it is a form of it from what I understand of his perspective. This, however, can be cleared up if he didn't have me on ignore.

The idea that we "observe" the Law "spiritually", it needs to be clarified to its meaning. Then can anyone clearly see whether he is legalistic or not. He emphasizes the Law as not void, because it is God's spoken word. He then continues on saying we observe it spiritually.

You know what? KennethC, explain Just-me's perspective to us since you seem to so clearly understand it and always come to his defense. Clearly define what it means to observe the law spiritually. Please.

The Word of God clearly shows what still applies to new believers and how it apples.

In Acts 15:20,29 this was said to all Gentile believers and approved by the Holy Spirit of what we are still to observe, and Jesus and Paul both show that following His two greatest commands will uphold the rest of Jesus teachings and commands. This is clearly shown by Paul in Romans 13:9-11 !!!

The spiritual aspect comes from walking in love and by that love it will not cause us to transgress but establish and uphold the teachings of the Lord.

As for the spiritual meaning of the rest of the law then we know the feast days point to Christ as well, as He fulfilled all but the final 3 that is still to come. This does not mean we have to physically keep doing them, but to understand the spiritual meaning of what they stand for and believe in that.

The sacrificial laws are the same as we do not adhere to physically sacrificing animals because we know the spiritual aspect and meaning was of the Lord's one time for all sacrifice.

The cleansing rituals also are fulfilled spiritually through Christ by obeying His commands to repent and be baptized and keep our confession in Him, and thus we no longer have to actually do the physical washing by water all the time. For repentance and baptism covers our sins through Him, and confessing covers the times of refreshing !!!

The only part that was abolished or done away was the physical ordinance aspect, not the spiritual moral aspect of love, mercy, and forgiveness that was also within the law.

Lord Jesus set the standard for us and by love all things will be established, upheld, and thus fulfilled !!!

 

[just-me]

"This, however, can be cleared up if he didn't have me on ignore."

Sorry, I was laughing out loud here pondering on how many have me on iggy and how many I have on iggy!
Just struck me tickle bone ole chap
carry on!

Too bad some cannot see that they did it to themselves and are wanting to escape their own guilt by blaming others who acted according to the scripture because of their own error. LOL

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17

 

[blondieindahouse]

Too bad some cannot see that they did it to themselves and are wanting to escape their own guilt by blaming others who acted according to the scripture because of their own error. LOL

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17

Did you just use me to insinuate something?
I feel dirty

 

[just-me]

Did you just use me to insinuate something?
I feel dirty

Not using you in the least. Just agreeing with you. If you have people on ignore I'm sure it's for good reason, as is mine LOL
If we are endeavoring to bring cohesiveness in the church, this is truth according to scripture. If we are endeavoring to falsely accuse members of the church of things we know nothing about, (including gossip) then that causes division, and ultimately leads to ignore according to Paul's exhortations.

 

[gb9]

well, let's see, we are saved by grace through faith for good works, that sounds pretty straightforward, and it would be great if everyone believed and taught that doctrine. but, since some of us cannot get that straight, then confusion continues.

 

[BenFTW]

I like how Just-me is addressing me, but not directly. It really is silly and childish. Know them by their fruits...

 

[BenFTW]

The Word of God clearly shows what still applies to new believers and how it apples.

In Acts 15:20,29 this was said to all Gentile believers and approved by the Holy Spirit of what we are still to observe, and Jesus and Paul both show that following His two greatest commands will uphold the rest of Jesus teachings and commands. This is clearly shown by Paul in Romans 13:9-11 !!!

The spiritual aspect comes from walking in love and by that love it will not cause us to transgress but establish and uphold the teachings of the Lord.

As for the spiritual meaning of the rest of the law then we know the feast days point to Christ as well, as He fulfilled all but the final 3 that is still to come. This does not mean we have to physically keep doing them, but to understand the spiritual meaning of what they stand for and believe in that.

The sacrificial laws are the same as we do not adhere to physically sacrificing animals because we know the spiritual aspect and meaning was of the Lord's one time for all sacrifice.

The cleansing rituals also are fulfilled spiritually through Christ by obeying His commands to repent and be baptized and keep our confession in Him, and thus we no longer have to actually do the physical washing by water all the time. For repentance and baptism covers our sins through Him, and confessing covers the times of refreshing !!!

The only part that was abolished or done away was the physical ordinance aspect, not the spiritual moral aspect of love, mercy, and forgiveness that was also within the law.

Lord Jesus set the standard for us and by love all things will be established, upheld, and thus fulfilled !!!

So you observe love, is what it can be summed up to? That is the spiritual principle behind observance of the Law? Why not just say it plainly? I mean, seriously? Not you, but Just-me. All his rhetoric and spiritualised words and it was that easy of a summation? Why complicate the simplicity of the Gospel, I ask for the hundredth time? Sigh. Just-me if you're reading this, you need to work on articulating what you believe. Don't complicate it.

 

[blondieindahouse]

Not using you in the least. Just agreeing with you. If you have people on ignore I'm sure it's for good reason, as is mine LOL
If we are endeavoring to bring cohesiveness in the church, this is truth according to scripture. If we are endeavoring to falsely accuse members of the church of things we know nothing about, (including gossip) then that causes division, and ultimately leads to ignore according to Paul's exhortations.

I put people on iggy when my patience has worn thin! Im merely trying to preserve some of my fruit

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like how Just-me is addressing me, but not directly. It really is silly and childish. Know them by their fruits...

He does nothing directly. Again, it is his modus oporendi..

the dude will get his.. God sees right through him, he is fooling no one but his cult