The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[studentoftheword]

God`s word says that those in darkness will not know the hour or day, however to those eagerly waiting,`But you brethren are NOT in darkness that this Day should OVERTAKE YOU AS A THIEF.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

I say ---I think your kind of mixed up here ------the Scripture you Quote here 1 thess 5:4 is not about the Rapture ----it is about God's second Coming for Judgement -----you are taking Scripture out of context and trying to make it say what you want it to say -------this is done a lot today ----and it is wrongly dividing the Word -------

The Day of the Lord ---is about God's Wrath ---not the Rapture


https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essay/the-day-of-the-lord/
How Does the New Testament See the Day of the Lord Fulfilled?
The Day of the Lord as Cataclysm, War, and Sacrifice

The New Testament draws on the Old Testament images of cataclysm, war, and sacrifice when depicting the coming day of the Lord, which it often explicitly associates with Jesus’s second appearing.


See below your verse 4
1 Thessalonians 5

Amplified Bible

The Day of the Lord
5 Now as to the [a]times and dates, [b]brothers and sisters, you have no need for anything to be written to you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the [return of the] Lord is coming just as a thief [comes unexpectedly and suddenly] in the night.

3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety [all is well and secure!]” then [in a moment unforeseen] destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains on a woman with child, and they will absolutely not escape [for there will be no way to escape the judgment of the Lord].

4 But you, [c]believers, [all you who believe in Christ as Savior and acknowledge Him as God’s Son] are not in spiritual darkness [nor held by its power], that the day [of judgment] would overtake you [by surprise] like a thief;

5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We do not belong to the night nor to darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep [in spiritual indifference] as the rest [of the world does], but let us keep wide awake [alert and cautious] and let us be sober [self-controlled, calm, and wise]. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who are drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we [believers] belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope and confident assurance of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us to [incur His] wrath [that is, He did not select us to condemn us], but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died [willingly] for us, so that whether we are awake (alive) or asleep (dead) [at Christ’s appearing], we will live together with Him [sharing eternal life]. 11 Therefore encourage and comfort one another and build up one another, just as you are doing.

 

[CS1]

Now remember that the revelation of the Body of Christ was NOT given until the Lord gave it to the Apostle Paul. (Eph. 3) Thus what you have quoted is NOT to do with the Body of Christ.

all power was given UNTO ME Jesus said, and Paul got his revelation from Christ as Paul said he did.

 

[Marilyn]

These also can be non born again believers.😗😗

who think they are believers and those of the Laodicean Church.

 

[Marilyn]

That's another proof of the post-tribulation rapture. The church will be present to see the Day of the Lord coming because the Day of the Lord occurs with the return of Christ and the rapture.

Yes the Day of the Lord is when the Lord returns on a specific day, HOWEVER in Hebrew the word `Day` ALSO means a time period and that is clearly seen in the prophets, eg Joel 2.

 

[Marilyn]

I say ---I think your kind of mixed up here ------the Scripture you Quote here 1 thess 5:4 is not about the Rapture ----it is about God's second Coming for Judgement -----you are taking Scripture out of context and trying to make it say what you want it to say -------this is done a lot today ----and it is wrongly dividing the Word -------

The Day of the Lord ---is about God's Wrath ---not the Rapture


https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essay/the-day-of-the-lord/
How Does the New Testament See the Day of the Lord Fulfilled?
The Day of the Lord as Cataclysm, War, and Sacrifice

The New Testament draws on the Old Testament images of cataclysm, war, and sacrifice when depicting the coming day of the Lord, which it often explicitly associates with Jesus’s second appearing.


See below your verse 4
1 Thessalonians 5

Amplified Bible

The Day of the Lord
5 Now as to the [a]times and dates, [b]brothers and sisters, you have no need for anything to be written to you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the [return of the] Lord is coming just as a thief [comes unexpectedly and suddenly] in the night.

3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety [all is well and secure!]” then [in a moment unforeseen] destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains on a woman with child, and they will absolutely not escape [for there will be no way to escape the judgment of the Lord].

4 But you, [c]believers, [all you who believe in Christ as Savior and acknowledge Him as God’s Son] are not in spiritual darkness [nor held by its power], that the day [of judgment] would overtake you [by surprise] like a thief;

5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We do not belong to the night nor to darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep [in spiritual indifference] as the rest [of the world does], but let us keep wide awake [alert and cautious] and let us be sober [self-controlled, calm, and wise]. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who are drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we [believers] belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope and confident assurance of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us to [incur His] wrath [that is, He did not select us to condemn us], but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died [willingly] for us, so that whether we are awake (alive) or asleep (dead) [at Christ’s appearing], we will live together with Him [sharing eternal life]. 11 Therefore encourage and comfort one another and build up one another, just as you are doing.

That`s right, and I agree the Day is the Day of the Lord, God Almighty, for judgment upon the nations and deliverance of Israel.

So when we say `we shall SEE the Day approaching,` clearly we see events moving towards the start of this Day. And specifically that is when God turns the Russian Federation around and brings it down to the Golan heights for judgment. (Ez. 38: 1 - 4)

And as the Body of Christ is NOT in that time period, (Day of the Lord) then that is the cut off point.

God`s 3 Prophetic Days -

1. The Day of Christ - for building up and maturing the Body of Christ.
2. The Day of the Lord God Almighty - time for the Lord to deal with Israel and the nations.
3.The Day of God - the New Heavens and New Earth -Eternity.

 

[Marilyn]

all power was given UNTO ME Jesus said, and Paul got his revelation from Christ as Paul said he did.

And that revelation was NOT known until the Lord the Head, (Eph. 1: 21) gave it to Paul AFTER the Lord had ascended to the Father. (Eph. 1: 20 - 23)

 

[kleronomos]

At Least once a week, every week, for 10 years is overkill. That goes way beyond considering new users. There are hundreds of threads on this topic already in existence on this site.
And not just this subject.
And guess what? They ALL end up in major debates, name calling, personal attacks and a variety of different, opposing views.
Not exactly a learning environment. No sheep are fed. I have watched many people leave this site for no reason other than the BDF. Sometimes within a few hours of joining. Because of how nasty it gets in here. So I haven't forgotten anything, you just spoke up not knowing.

Just letting you know how it comes across to someone who doesn't know what you know. Thank you for the response. You have supplied me with much valuable information. How many do you think have left the site for fear of speaking out and receiving reprisals as that? I wonder... Again, thank you for pointing a finger at the problem.

I am not sure what to do now. I have a belief that knowledge is being poured and the Holy Spirit is leading people to end time prophecy like never before. Should I allow to stand the, as you put it
"They ALL end up in major debates, name calling, personal attacks and a variety of different, opposing views.
Not exactly a learning environment. No sheep are fed."
as what is found or should I endeavor to put forth TRUTH so they can be fed?

WE are told there will be many false christ's. Do we allow those to lead the way? Be the only voice to be heard? Or do we try to set a better example by treating each other more gently WHILE putting forth the words of GOD?

It is so easy for the flesh to attack first apologize later, and it takes discipline and practice to set the good example (knowing we all shall fail sometimes) on a consistent basis. I am striving to do such even when told I shouldn't.

Hopefully there will be a move back to the 'weekly topic' for those who have missed the last 10 years and are needing to work it out with their own words and questions. Many are going to awake to truth, but that will only be possible if, at some point, they at least heard it.

I wish you joy and peace and patience in the coming year

 

[Nehemiah6]

This false teaching says that when people are caught away to meet the Lord others will see them rise in the air, and great devastation will happen. Planes will fall out of the sky as Christian pilots are taken away, plus cars and buses, trains etc will all crash because their drivers were believers and were caught away.

All of this is NOT the biblical doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture but imaginary scenarios which may or may not actually happen. That some of this could actually happen is not beyond the realm of possibility. But neither can you or anyone else claim the "truth" in this regard. What is indisputable is the fact that there will be a Resurrection/Rapture when the full number of Gentiles -- "the fulness of the Gentiles" -- has entered into the Church. And only God knows the number and the date.

 

[CS1]

And that revelation was NOT known until the Lord the Head, (Eph. 1: 21) gave it to Paul AFTER the Lord had ascended to the Father. (Eph. 1: 20 - 23)

I did agree, the revelation was not understood by the Disciples until the resurrection of Jesus and the day of Pentacost. Jesus said there are many things you do not understand now, but when the Comforter comes HE will teach you. Jesus fully knew and it was too hard for the disciples at that time to understand. Jesus spoke Propheticly as HE did in Matthew 24 about the coming destruction of the temple.


Eph 1:9-13-22


9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

22 And He put all things under His feet and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Nothing here says Jesus did not know all prior to the resurrection . We did not know yet Christ is all-knowing. Jesus fully knew he came to die and would be raised again. He said so.

 

[Absolutely]

Thank you for your explanation. However I don`t think people have thought through the scriptures that show we will `see the Day approaching,` plus `not get overtaken as a thief,` etc. And especially to be eagerly waiting, and encouraging others.

BTW what is BDF?

If it gets to name calling or personal attacks then I would ask for the thread to be closed.

Years ago that same thing happened to me.
" what is bdf, some new doctrine or group?"
Lol

 

[Absolutely]

I say ---I think your kind of mixed up here ------the Scripture you Quote here 1 thess 5:4 is not about the Rapture ----it is about God's second Coming for Judgement -----you are taking Scripture out of context and trying to make it say what you want it to say -------this is done a lot today ----and it is wrongly dividing the Word -------

The Day of the Lord ---is about God's Wrath ---not the Rapture


https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essay/the-day-of-the-lord/
How Does the New Testament See the Day of the Lord Fulfilled?
The Day of the Lord as Cataclysm, War, and Sacrifice

The New Testament draws on the Old Testament images of cataclysm, war, and sacrifice when depicting the coming day of the Lord, which it often explicitly associates with Jesus’s second appearing.


See below your verse 4
1 Thessalonians 5

Amplified Bible

The Day of the Lord
5 Now as to the [a]times and dates, [b]brothers and sisters, you have no need for anything to be written to you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the [return of the] Lord is coming just as a thief [comes unexpectedly and suddenly] in the night.

3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety [all is well and secure!]” then [in a moment unforeseen] destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains on a woman with child, and they will absolutely not escape [for there will be no way to escape the judgment of the Lord].

4 But you, [c]believers, [all you who believe in Christ as Savior and acknowledge Him as God’s Son] are not in spiritual darkness [nor held by its power], that the day [of judgment] would overtake you [by surprise] like a thief;

5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We do not belong to the night nor to darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep [in spiritual indifference] as the rest [of the world does], but let us keep wide awake [alert and cautious] and let us be sober [self-controlled, calm, and wise]. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who are drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we [believers] belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope and confident assurance of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us to [incur His] wrath [that is, He did not select us to condemn us], but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died [willingly] for us, so that whether we are awake (alive) or asleep (dead) [at Christ’s appearing], we will live together with Him [sharing eternal life]. 11 Therefore encourage and comfort one another and build up one another, just as you are doing.

Lol
You just laid out a case for the rapture happening before the gt
1) peace and safety
2) be watchful at THIS TIME AND NOT ASLEEP.
3) WE are NOT appointed to wrath.

But of course you omit all that truth

Maybe reread it with no doctrine in mind and actually see what is plain simple truth.


2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

AHEM...."WATCH."

 

[Absolutely]

ALL rapture verses are peacetime and normal life.

So simple.

 

[Omegatime]

Matthew 24:27-39

But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.


Thankfully we have the words of Jesus over opinions. I did not see one verse that supports your position. You do not have to agree but, support your position with the word of God or not, I am fine with moving on from this thread

IMO the days of Noah and Lot is directed at Israel only, as the antichrist protects Israel in the first half of the tribulation but around the midpoint peace and security is removed

 

[Charlie24]

IMO the days of Noah and Lot is directed at Israel only, as the antichrist protects Israel in the first half of the tribulation but around the midpoint peace and security is removed

That's the way I see it too!

 

[kleronomos]

Lol
You just laid out a case for the rapture happening before the gt
1) peace and safety
2) be watchful at THIS TIME AND NOT ASLEEP.
3) WE are NOT appointed to wrath.

But of course you omit all that truth

Maybe reread it with no doctrine in mind and actually see what is plain simple truth.


2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

AHEM...."WATCH."

Who is saying Peace and Safety? but more importantly WHO does the destruction come upon? Them, no us. Doesn't say because we wont be here, just that Gods wrath doesn't fall upon us. That is called FAITH in the power of God.

Let us not SLEEP. None of this would need be said if indeed the church were in heaven. The church wouldn't hear or listen for 'peace and safety' if in heaven would they? It wouldn't matter if the church slept or not or was watching or sober if they were in heaven would it?

Please name a time when Gods wrath fell on someone He didn't want it to. Or who was taken to heaven to be kept from tribulation. Or taken to heaven to be delivered.

Either all these things have taken place on the earth to Gods satisfaction or they haven't. We are no longer of the world by our becoming a new creature made new by our faith and we are already delivered aren't we?

Since we are not to fear death of the flesh, what is there to fear about tribulation? AND if we are not willing to pick up the cross and follow Christ then how are we worthy of heaven? If we are wearing the gospel armor and have been given power over all our enemies what would be the purpose of being taken to heaven?

 

[kleronomos]

Israel, Gods people, inheritors of the promises. The ones the gentiles become joint heirs WITH partakers of the promises. The family of God the gentiles are grafted into. The TWO made one by the death of Christ, a NEW CREATURE.


that SOMEHOW 'the CHURCH' has seen fit to DIVIDE again. Scary.


God didn't change the plan and God didn't forsake the people, HE CHANGED IT and invited those who were afar to come near. Not to 'come and be separate from'.

 

[Marilyn]

All of this is NOT the biblical doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture but imaginary scenarios which may or may not actually happen. That some of this could actually happen is not beyond the realm of possibility. But neither can you or anyone else claim the "truth" in this regard. What is indisputable is the fact that there will be a Resurrection/Rapture when the full number of Gentiles -- "the fulness of the Gentiles" -- has entered into the Church. And only God knows the number and the date.

Actually God`s word tell us `...till we all come to the unity of the Faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect, (mature) man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.`(Eph. 4: 13)

The `fullness of the Gentiles`` is not a number but the completion of God`s purpose for them in the Body of Christ - maturity. We need to read all of God`s scriptures pertaining to that topic.

 

[Marilyn]

I did agree, the revelation was not understood by the Disciples until the resurrection of Jesus and the day of Pentacost. Jesus said there are many things you do not understand now, but when the Comforter comes HE will teach you. Jesus fully knew and it was too hard for the disciples at that time to understand. Jesus spoke Propheticly as HE did in Matthew 24 about the coming destruction of the temple.


Eph 1:9-13-22


9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

22 And He put all things under His feet and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Nothing here says Jesus did not know all prior to the resurrection . We did not know yet Christ is all-knowing. Jesus fully knew he came to die and would be raised again. He said so.

Hi CS1,

The 12 disciples never fully understood the revelation that the Lord gave to the Apostle Paul. Remember that they only taught that Jesus was Lord and the Christ, (Acts 2: 36). And Peter was trying to get the Gentile believers to be like Jews. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14). Their promised inheritance is to be the rulers over the 12 tribes of Israel. (Matt. 19: 28) They were always looking for the Lord to bring His rulership (kingdom) through Israel on earth. (Acts 1: 6)

 

[DLM]

The False Teaching of what happens at the Rapture.

I believe people have been taught through preaching, books, videos etc a wrong view of what happens at the Rapture.

This false teaching says that when people are caught away to meet the Lord others will see them rise in the air, and great devastation will happen. Planes will fall out of the sky as Christian pilots are taken away, plus cars and buses, trains etc will all crash because their drivers were believers and were caught away.

People are told that unbelievers will be shocked and horrified as they realise they have been `left behind.`

None of this is a true picture, I believe, of what will really happen at the rapture.

The Truth of what will happen at the Rapture.

God`s word says that we will see that Day, (of the Lord) approaching and thus get together more.

`...exhorting, (encouraging and warning) one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

I believe the Holy Spirit will be stirring our spirits expectantly so that we know the time is very close.

`To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear...` (Heb. 9: 28)

In the world people will think WW 3 is happening. The Russian Federation plus Iran, Ethiopia and Libya, (Ez. 38: 1 - 5) will be brought down by God to the mountains of Israel for judgment. The amassing of those troops will be very plain to see. Even now there is movement in those nations. People of the world will be looking at their phones, TV, etc in great fear of a nuclear World War.

The Lockdowns due to a supposed pandemic will keep people separate from others. Most will only be concerned with getting supplies, (which may be limited) and returning home.

Then when those who are eagerly waiting and looking for the Lord are taken, their bodies will be changed and there will be nothing left to indicate where they are. If some people do notice that so and so is not around there are many reasons for that - gone into a covid quarantine camp, visiting relatives, gone on holiday, etc etc.

Have you ever thought about this?

In Jeremiah 6:11 Everyone who is "taken" is experiencing God's judgment. You definitely wanted to be left on earth.

In Zephaniah 3:11-13 - God will remove the wicked and leave a remnant of righteous people in Jerusalem after its judgment.

In Zechariah 13:8 Those who are left behind get to live while the rest die.

Were we caught/raptured up into his Kingdom when we first believed? (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

Didn't Jesus say I will receive you to Myself? (John 14:3)

God never intended to take people off the earth until they died physically. Jesus even prayed about it. (John 17:15)

Folks, it's spiritual It's the whole point of being IN Him while on this earth. He has made us One with Him. (John 14:20)

 

[Nehemiah6]

The `fullness of the Gentiles`` is not a number but the completion of God`s purpose for them in the Body of Christ - maturity.

That is an attempt to misrepresent "the fulness of the Gentiles". Since the context is the addition of Gentiles to the "good olive tree" of believing Israel, it is indeed about the number of Gentile branches to be added: And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.