The first churches after Christ vs. today’s church

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Why does man continually seek man for wisdom and counsel. Were you not sent the great comforter for your guidance? Why argue amongst yourselves? The Holy Spirit waits for you as a blessing. Use him. Proclaim Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour. Many have been decieved by the so called church, none, no not one , is on the right path. Repent and follow Jesus, not some manmade doctrine. Many are called but few make it.
 
Blik said:
It IS a wonderful privilege to live with the Holy Spirit available to all who accept Christ. But I think we must be aware that the Holy Spirit does not replace studying the word, for we are told to check the spirits. Many in the church councils through the years thought they could add to to word because they had the Holy Spirit, when some of their additions were from the flesh. The Holy Spirit does not give even the pope this power.

The Holy spirit is one with the Lord and His word. The wonderful Holy Spirit does not replace study, it gives us understanding of the study.
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Not entirely true. If it were illiterate folks would be at a great disadvantage. The Holy Spirit can infuse knowledge that may take a lifetime to learn otherwise. If one does experience infused knowledge it is immediate and believed beyond doubt. An example is Elizabeth's greeting to Mary. She expressed who Mary is as someone who knew her fully. Its a different mode of knowing and I believe it's the mode of knowing the essence of a thing. No study ..no thinking even is needed. It is the angels mode of knowing. They see the essence of things. Afterwards one may need to validate the infused knowledge with already revealed truth. Example is Paul who received infused knowledge and then studied for 3 years. Then he sought validation from the Church. That is what authenticates the Spirit. One seeks out the judgement of the Church.

The Holy Spirit infuses knowledge of Christ and we know it beyond doubt. Like Paul's infusion it is a mode of knowing that is natural to pure intellects like God and the angels.
 
Benadam said:
Thats true. Jesus shares His life with us. Forgiving enemies is what we can do that makes us more like Him.
To those we forgive that is. Then He unites our suffering to His and the redemptive power of the cross converts the hearts that persecuted and others who witnesses.

An example is St Stephen's prayer for his enemies. I believe Saul received Christ's redemption through Stephen's suffering and prayer because Christ united Stephen's suffering to His own and the redeeming power of the cross works through Stephen to save his enemies. Saul was saved here and became Paul.

That was a bit long winded. It's because I liked what you wrote.☺
Grace and Peace.
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Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Its a requirement for us to forgive our brethren.
To forgive those who repent from the heart.
To forgive those who do not know what they do.

But those who willfully continue in sin knowing better.
Those who choose to be apart from the holiness that is the life of Christ.
We do not forgive that because God does not forgive that.
But we call them to repentance and the mercies of God.
 
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Blik said:
It IS a wonderful privilege to live with the Holy Spirit available to all who accept Christ. But I think we must be aware that the Holy Spirit does not replace studying the word, for we are told to check the spirits. Many in the church councils through the years thought they could add to to word because they had the Holy Spirit, when some of their additions were from the flesh. The Holy Spirit does not give even the pope this power.

The Holy spirit is one with the Lord and His word. The wonderful Holy Spirit does not replace study, it gives us understanding of the study.
Click to expand...
Error on both sides of the path.
Studying the word does not replace the Holy Spirit.
I think that is a just as likely failure.
The two are always one, but the written can not be appraised properly without Spirit.
The truth is you cant fail by having more dependence on the spirit.
The written word exists for us to test the spirits and make sure we are walking in the Spirit of Jesus and God and not something else.

But yes time for another Reformation and to finish what was started and return to the a pure faith and its power that was lost and forgotten. For we are the Children of God. So how should we act?
How far from what was intended do we live our lives?
Have we not spent enough time in sin and fruitlessness?

May God have mercy.
 
Blik said:
Do you think the Psalms are scripture from God that is eternal, or do you think there is a time limitation to them?

I truly love the law, it is like a wonderful heavenly Father taking my hand and leading me to Christ. Christ within makes me want to obey every single part of it. But I don't think God wants us to use the law for salvation. Nor, like first Corinthians tells us, do I think God wants us to obey law outside of love.

Christ showed us how to obey law rules without love, and showed that was wrong. He picked grain on the Sabbath when they were hungry, he showed a man being healed on the Sabbath, and other things out of love and not rules.
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I think God acts out of his nature and that his nature is eternal.

The law of God is the nature of God, which is the love of God.
How that is expressed in any given situation is subject to the Spirit of God
That love is expressed in the seven spirits of God.
Justice, Mercy , Glory , Life, Truth, Wisdom and Authority.
Like light through a prism.
Speaking of which the stone that makes up the throne of God is what is used to make Prisms, now that's cool.
 
Lion222 said:
Error on both sides of the path.
Studying the word does not replace the Holy Spirit.
I think that is a just as likely failure.
The two are always one, but the written can not be appraised properly without Spirit.
The truth is you cant fail by having more dependence on the spirit.
The written word exists for us to test the spirits and make sure we are walking in the Spirit of Jesus and God and not something else.

But yes time for another Reformation and to finish what was started and return to the a pure faith and its power that was lost and forgotten. For we are the Children of God. So how should we act?
How far from what was intended do we live our lives?
Have we not spent enough time in sin and fruitlessness?

May God have mercy.
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Thanks for expanding on my interpretation of scripture. We seem to basically agree, but you clear things up.

God is so simple, in His essence it is balance and simplicity. So it is true that the Holy Spirit needs scripture to test it, but study needs the Holy Spirit to be understood.

Children can know and understand God before they learn the words of scripture through the Holy Spirit, yet we need to know if our thoughts are from the flesh or the Holy Spirit, and scripture tells us this.
 
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Blik said:
We know the first churches had so much power that Christianity grew even in the face of the severe persecution of the church. We are going to be facing the same kind of persecution. Do we have the strength to face death for our faith?

How can we make our church stronger so we have this much power again?
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Receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.
 
Lion222 said:
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Its a requirement for us to forgive our brethren.
To forgive those who repent from the heart.
To forgive those who do not know what they do.

But those who willfully continue in sin knowing better.
Those who choose to be apart from the holiness that is the life of Christ.
We do not forgive that because God does not forgive that.
But we call them to repentance and the mercies of God.
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Good words
It seems counter intuitive but.... Jesus gave the power to bind as well as loose. That means not forgiving is sometimes a good.
In As much as repentance is impossible we are fit to be judged.
 
Blik said:
Thanks for expanding on my interpretation of scripture. We seem to basically agree, but you clear things up.

God is so simple, in His essence it is balance and simplicity. So it is true that the Holy Spirit needs scripture to test it, but study needs the Holy Spirit to be understood.

Children can know and understand God before they learn the words of scripture through the Holy Spirit, yet we need to know if our thoughts are from the flesh or the Holy Spirit, and scripture tells us this.
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Yep.
Need to learn to recognize his voice.
Testing the spirits to be in line with the word.
Testing how we understand his word by knowing His Spirit and nature.
Having it all come together perfectly in unity.

Kind of amazing when it all starts to open up in you.
You start getting answers for questions you did not know where there.
 
Lion222 said:
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Its a requirement for us to forgive our brethren.
To forgive those who repent from the heart.
To forgive those who do not know what they do.

But those who willfully continue in sin knowing better.
Those who choose to be apart from the holiness that is the life of Christ.
We do not forgive that because God does not forgive that.
But we call them to nicerepentance and the mercies of God.
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Gen
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
Matt 18
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Some people are unable to recognize acts of love Acts of love are interpreted by them as a quid pro quo. It's when they realize (may happen, or not) it wasn't quid pro quo they can know love.
 
Benadam said:
Gen
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
Matt 18
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Some people are unable to recognize acts of love Acts of love are interpreted by them as a quid pro quo. It's when they realize (may happen, or not) it wasn't quid pro quo they can know love.
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That's another one.
Godly anger is not about payback or vengeance after the fact.
 
Lion222 said:
That's another one.
Godly anger is not about payback or vengeance after the fact.
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Correction: Godly Anger is totally about payback and vengeance.
The cloak of vengeance is part of Gods armor.
But it is Gods and Christs alone.

When evil comes we fight against it and we don't relent until the day is done.
But while Gods mercies are new every morning our should be also given repentance.

Which also makes me think the anger of people who hold a grudge and live in the past.
Going around in bitterness angry and expecting evil even when looking at someone who has repented (changed their behaviors direction) or at someone who has not sinned against you.

Lots of wrong ways to be angry like man in selfishness and self protection.
Only one way for us to be angry like God, slowly in sacrificial love and a hatred of sin.
 
Lion222 said:
Correction: Godly Anger is totally about payback and vengeance.
The cloak of vengeance is part of Gods armor.
But it is Gods and Christs alone.
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I think God's perspective is there expressed as a human kind of experience.

It is also expressed by the Prophets as mountains turned into plains. Kings will be paupers and paupers Kings. The idea being those suffering injustice can look forward to God making things right. Grace and Peace.
 
lenna said:
although it does seem the church has fallen from taking care of those who need shelter, clothing and food in many cases
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Good point, and it seems to be the consensus among younger people.

And just to clarify, I don't think all young people are looking for a handout like most in church leadership proclaim. On the contrary, most people are looking for ways to serve and connect without all the constraints of establishment bureaucracy.
 
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Blik said:
We know the first churches had so much power that Christianity grew even in the face of the severe persecution of the church. We are going to be facing the same kind of persecution. Do we have the strength to face death for our faith?

How can we make our church stronger so we have this much power again?
Click to expand...
The churches today are too political; I doubt the early churches cared about much other than the Gospel. Based on my observations, this divisiveness tears the church apart, so people cannot come together. There are Christians who think how can any Christian vote for Trump, and then there are Christians who believe the only choice is Trump. With such stark divisions, it is hard for the body of Christ to unite.
 
TheIndianGirl said:
The churches today are too political; I doubt the early churches cared about much other than the Gospel. Based on my observations, this divisiveness tears the church apart, so people cannot come together. There are Christians who think how can any Christian vote for Trump, and then there are Christians who believe the only choice is Trump. With such stark divisions, it is hard for the body of Christ to unite.
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You have put your finger on the major difference between what I have learned of the early church as compared to the church today. The early church believed in love given to all members and they did not let differences in any doctrine or politics interfere with that love. They shared a love of Christ, a belief that their life with Christ was the all important consideration of their life. All the rest was second so things like who voted how did not divide. They were united in Christ.
 
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