The Gospel of Grace - Boasting in God and His Gospel (Another Hyper-Grace Thread)
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Woah, wait, faith in Christ sets us free from EVERY sin?
I think you're getting this Grace thing, Peter! That's what we've been trying to get across!
We seem to be making some progress here!
Right. Forgiveness offered must be forgiveness received to be applied. No argument there. We are not, nor have we ever been, teaching universalism. The OP makes that clear (you did actually read the OP?).
I think Paul did have it in mind, that's why he made clear that we must believe in Christ to receive the free gifts of Forgiveness, Righteousness, and New Life. Completely clear in Paul's writings.
I'm not sure what that above part of your quote was suppose to mean, but regarding "disconnecting the individual from guilt over their sin" I do know the Scriptures say this:
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. (from Heb. 10)
What you said is not clear; what Scripture says is clear. So thankful for the Scriptures \o/!
-JGIG
6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (from Rom. 5)
Perhaps some time in Romans 5 would be helpful - it clarifies so much about what you've posted above, from forgiveness, to righteousness, to new life, to how universalism isn't an option - hey, there's even a verse in there about the super-abundance of Grace!
Check it out!
-JGIG
27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. (from Heb. 9)
-JGIG
This kind of attitude really is childish and annoying. It's like someone acting like an authority and trying to teach something to others who knew the matter very well long before that someone even figured the matter out.
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Somehow you have a polarised view of everything I am saying. Either I am a grace believer your way or I am a legalist.
I am a grace believer, but that grace and love is accepted believer by believer. It has not washed the whole of mankind clean. What you are talking about is mysticism.
My sin has effects on me. It is that which Jesus died to put right. He washes me clean because of my faith. My faith is a gift of God, because He chose me. The cross shows me the ultimate price of my rebellion, my attempts at life, my failures and also says it does not matter, it is not your fault. It is odd the idea I blame myself for failure when without God I will always fail no matter how hard I try.
But with God I will always succeed in righteousness. That is true love at work in me. He took away the pain, the hurt, the damage done by life and others, and makes me whole, able to walk, a little better each day. In His family I am safe, I can trust Him implicitly.
Paul said the law was given to sinners, because sinners do not walk in righteousness.
As saints we fulfill the law so have no condemnation as we are no longer failures by it.
But it appears the law condemns you every day, because you know you sin, but wish to ignore it, rather than deal with it.
That is called rebellion against God. You create an elaborate theology to excuse this so judgement is about only good works, and not sin. Now I hope you are happy with this, because your soul is not, and you know who is going to loose this delusion.
Interestingly you are reverse engineering your concepts.
Sin is no longer the issue in the world because Jesus died and dealt with sin for everyone, it is just deeds done.
Now the problem also is you use sin to mean everything not done in Christ, therefore Christs death cancelled all sin, for everyone so all wrong deeds are also dealt with.
So there is no need for judgement of people or the book of life because everyone is in it.
I have to apologise for not spotting this earlier but you change your language references and switch between models without realising you have destroyed your actual position.
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I have some bad news for you. The Lord will use you to bring about clearer understanding of His work of grace, but it certainly is not your construction. I agree with your movements intention, to help free people from a rules based view of our communion with God, like we are to please a cruel headmaster, but it does come down to a too abstract view of how Jesus paid the price for sin.
It bothered me why Jesus was equivalent to the bronze snake on a pole held up by Moses in the desert when they were under judgement. If you saw the snake you were healed. It is like just seeing the situation is enough to gain healing.
Over time I began to see love is in everyone, it is innate in life, but as humans we shut it down, close it off, get cynical, exploit, use others and justify it because we have been hurt and dare not take the risk of pain again.
We are made in the image of God. God is love. So the very thing that causes us to betray others, hurt love, is the very thing God wants to free us to be, loving and open. So sin comes in to defend our hearts, and is justified because we say, I am not loved.
What does the cross shout, as loud as any action could, given this is the creator of the universe on an execution tool, submiting unto death, without a word of complaint, I love you.
So healing comes, the excuse is removed, when we see Jesus on the cross. But it has to be God, the one we blame and use as an excuse to hurt others.
Why was this sacrifice necessary? Because there was no other way to show how absolute is this love, how dependable, how vast beyond measure. It has to be enough for us to say, we would die rather than betray this love. So to pay the price of rebellion had to be the cross. And the cure is seeing by faith what God has done.
So this is not some abstract spiritual equation at a distance, in a church service, it is Christ standing before you saying see my hands and side, you can trust me, I am the Son of God. But to honour that love we need to walk in love empowered by the love God echoes in our heart and walk in righteousness. That is the gospel. Jesus died to heal us, to take away our sin and bring living water to our souls. Without this our heats are dead and dry, love dies and cynicism rules our spirits.
It's probably beneficial to the discussion to understand that hypergrace doctrine originated in a culture heavily burdened with a performance mentality: Malaysia. So it was a response to counter hyper-legalism. And it seems that most (all?) of those who are its cheerleaders on this forum have come out of similar backgrounds.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
"Also, having recently been to Malaysia and speaking to leaders there, they explained to me that Prince’s teaching is in the context of a culture burdened with a performance mentality- something that his teaching confronts directly."
Analyzing Joseph Prince And His Radical Grace Teaching -
I'm pleasantly surprised to hear you say something nice about the man. (Get a grip on yourself. LOL)
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FreeNChrist
Guest
it has been happening all over the world...What about Andrew Wommack and Bob George in the US..they were before Malayisa?
What about Terry Virgo in England?....Terry Virgo is the founder of Newfrontiers, an international network of over 1500 churches in over 60 nations
http://www.terryvirgo.org/series/gods-lavish-grace/
What about Terry Virgo in England?....Terry Virgo is the founder of Newfrontiers, an international network of over 1500 churches in over 60 nations
http://www.terryvirgo.org/series/gods-lavish-grace/
WOW..hey look at what I found on the internet...Apparently Billy graham is a wolf in sheep's clothing....the net is just full of garbage..a place for people to slander and exhibit their malice to others..
Wolves in Costume: Billy Graham
This site here is called the "Path of Truth "..imagine..lol...full of garbage..
How the Lord Exposed Billy Graham
Wolves in Costume: Billy Graham
This site here is called the "Path of Truth "..imagine..lol...full of garbage..
How the Lord Exposed Billy Graham
So it all originated in Malaysia. I'll be danged.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Just what is this new thing???
[video=youtube;a7AVdn-Tugk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7AVdn-Tugk[/video]
[video=youtube;a7AVdn-Tugk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7AVdn-Tugk[/video]
Oppps... sorry.. must be that spirit of lawlessness that is supposed to be everywhere around here in CC....
Naw. Everyone knows this is all new. You're obviously delusional.
Please direct us to evidence that Wommack, Virgo and George were teaching Prince's errors before he did. For example, the 1 John 1:9 lie, not necessary to pray for forgiveness, repentance not necessary, etc.