The Great Commission
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S
Who says we are not to be?
The issue is one of whether or not water baptism saves.
I have never seen anyone tell another not to get water baptized.
Though I have seen some falsely accuse others of saying that.
They are liars
The issue is one of whether or not water baptism saves.
I have never seen anyone tell another not to get water baptized.
Though I have seen some falsely accuse others of saying that.
They are liars
As he continues through his numerous long posts there is repeated this message that water baptism was never intended.
This is not a discussion about whether water baptism is necessary for salvation. It is a cult teaching that Jesus never meant water baptism to be performed at all in the Great Commission.
S
I have not seen (on ChristianChat) these cultists of whom you speak.
Do you have any examples/links to their posts?
Or are you just saying they are "out there" like on youtube?
I certainly am not in accord with any who redefine terms to suit some twisted agenda
Do you have any examples/links to their posts?
Or are you just saying they are "out there" like on youtube?
I certainly am not in accord with any who redefine terms to suit some twisted agenda
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S
I see the OP affirming baptism over and over again.
But I could be missing something in those great walls of text
They are not easy to read through with no paragraph breaks etc.
But I could be missing something in those great walls of text
They are not easy to read through with no paragraph breaks etc.
I may have misunderstood his original premise. He stated...
"The great commission given by Jesus to his apostles was to go out and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Spirit. Most people and church denominations think that this means one baptism with water in the name of three persons. That is not the case."
Then he goes on to explain his ideas about three baptisms. I thought he was suggesting that we no longer need to baptize in water at all and that we have been mistaken in doing so these 2000 years. That merely teaching doctrine will suffice in "baptizing" people.
He can clarify if he likes. And yes, paragraph breaks will make it easier to follow. No reason to reiterate the three baptisms what I want to know is if he teaches that baptism in water should not be done at all.
S
Original Poster.
Ok I am sorry for misunderstanding your post and thinking you were teaching that Jesus did not tell us to baptize in water.
I agree that baptism in water is not what saves us and that we have faith in Jesus and that we are born again and given His Spirit that makes us regenerated before we get baptized in water. Most of those on CC believe that. There are some Church of Christ folks who believe that you have to get water baptized to be saved. And then there are some that try to teach that water baptism was not supposed to be done after the church got started and people don't need to do it any more at all. There have been a few that have tried hard to teach that and eventually got banned. Sorry for falsely accusing you of teaching that.
Ok I am sorry for misunderstanding your post and thinking you were teaching that Jesus did not tell us to baptize in water.
I agree that baptism in water is not what saves us and that we have faith in Jesus and that we are born again and given His Spirit that makes us regenerated before we get baptized in water. Most of those on CC believe that. There are some Church of Christ folks who believe that you have to get water baptized to be saved. And then there are some that try to teach that water baptism was not supposed to be done after the church got started and people don't need to do it any more at all. There have been a few that have tried hard to teach that and eventually got banned. Sorry for falsely accusing you of teaching that.
S
Of course.
I think that the reason for baptism was to help people to be for real about their commitment. A "crossing over" act. It helps them to exercise their invisible faith. It is for the ministers' or the evangelists' benefit. It is the evangelist's tool.
It looses it's purpose to be put off for some time in the far off future. I am not so sure it is just going through a legalistic ritual after someone has already been saved and grown strong in the Lord.
It seems like a good idea "just to make sure," of what, they don't really know, but they don't want to leave it "unchecked" and for that reason I say it has lost its meaning by then.
Doesn't it always seem a little strange for people to wait and do it months or years after they have been saved. We are used to it but when we read the bible we can't help but think.."that's not how they did it"
It should be done at the time of ones decision. We should preach it during our Gospel presentation. People should come up to us and say I believe in Jesus and want to be baptized and we should be able to do it right then. That is what I see when I read the bible.
Now I am not making it a salvation issue. But why does that matter. I want to do it the way they did it in the Bible because I think that God knew what he was saying when he told us to preach the Gospel and baptize them immediately. We do miss out on something that God intended. And it is the ones who are making the decisions for Christ that are the ones that are missing out. Maybe there would be more LONG TERM conversions if baptism in water was done right away. Maybe their faith would have been strengthened and they would not have soon fallen away? Maybe that is part of the reason for doing it right away?
I think that the reason for baptism was to help people to be for real about their commitment. A "crossing over" act. It helps them to exercise their invisible faith. It is for the ministers' or the evangelists' benefit. It is the evangelist's tool.
It looses it's purpose to be put off for some time in the far off future. I am not so sure it is just going through a legalistic ritual after someone has already been saved and grown strong in the Lord.
It seems like a good idea "just to make sure," of what, they don't really know, but they don't want to leave it "unchecked" and for that reason I say it has lost its meaning by then.
Doesn't it always seem a little strange for people to wait and do it months or years after they have been saved. We are used to it but when we read the bible we can't help but think.."that's not how they did it"
It should be done at the time of ones decision. We should preach it during our Gospel presentation. People should come up to us and say I believe in Jesus and want to be baptized and we should be able to do it right then. That is what I see when I read the bible.
Now I am not making it a salvation issue. But why does that matter. I want to do it the way they did it in the Bible because I think that God knew what he was saying when he told us to preach the Gospel and baptize them immediately. We do miss out on something that God intended. And it is the ones who are making the decisions for Christ that are the ones that are missing out. Maybe there would be more LONG TERM conversions if baptism in water was done right away. Maybe their faith would have been strengthened and they would not have soon fallen away? Maybe that is part of the reason for doing it right away?
Read Acts 19: 2-7 where disciples of John got baptized with water and had not received the Holy Spirit. When John the baptist baptized it was a baptism of repentance. When Paul explained Jesus to them, they believed in Jesus , and the verse says they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. There was no ritual in this baptism. It happened when they believed. They then received the gift of the Holy Spirit. John's baptism with water was a baptism of repentance.
Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Notice the 3 elements of salvation. Repentance, being baptized in the name of Jesus, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Repentance is a state of being and is granted by the Father.
Acts 11: 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Water baptism is a public declaration of repentance. When the Father grants a person repentance, they can declare it publicly, or not. He can declare his repentance publicly with water baptism, or privately to God in prayer.
Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Notice the 3 elements of salvation. Repentance, being baptized in the name of Jesus, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Repentance is a state of being and is granted by the Father.
Acts 11: 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Water baptism is a public declaration of repentance. When the Father grants a person repentance, they can declare it publicly, or not. He can declare his repentance publicly with water baptism, or privately to God in prayer.