The Great Commission

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S

Scribe

Guest
#61
Read Acts 19: 2-7 where disciples of John got baptized with water and had not received the Holy Spirit. When John the baptist baptized it was a baptism of repentance. When Paul explained Jesus to them, they believed in Jesus , and the verse says they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. There was no ritual in this baptism. It happened when they believed. They then received the gift of the Holy Spirit. John's baptism with water was a baptism of repentance.
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I believe this means that they were baptized in water over again in the name of Jesus.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#62
Read Acts 19: 2-7 where disciples of John got baptized with water and had not received the Holy Spirit. When John the baptist baptized it was a baptism of repentance. When Paul explained Jesus to them, they believed in Jesus , and the verse says they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. There was no ritual in this baptism. It happened when they believed. They then received the gift of the Holy Spirit. John's baptism with water was a baptism of repentance.

Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Notice the 3 elements of salvation. Repentance, being baptized in the name of Jesus, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Repentance is a state of being and is granted by the Father.

Acts 11: 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Water baptism is a public declaration of repentance. When the Father grants a person repentance, they can declare it publicly, or not. He can declare his repentance publicly with water baptism, or privately to God in prayer.
So what you are saying is that you won't worry for these people who placed their trust on water baptism as an assurance of their salvation?
 
Dec 30, 2020
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#63
So what you are saying is that you won't worry for these people who placed their trust on water baptism as an assurance of their salvation?
If they receive water baptism because they repented of their sins, trust in Jesus, and receive the Holy Spirit, then they are saved. If they receive water baptism without really repenting, then the water baptism wont save them.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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#64
The repentance granted by the Father is not just a head repentance. It is so deep and sincere, that the person turns to God for forgiveness of their sins, who in turn will provide the means for that person to receive the Gospel of Jesus and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That is why we need to go out and preach the Gospel so that those chosen by the Father to receive repentance can be saved.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#65
If they receive water baptism because they repented of their sins, trust in Jesus, and receive the Holy Spirit, then they are saved. If they receive water baptism without really repenting, then the water baptism wont save them.
So to be clear, you regard water baptism as also necessary for salvation, though not sufficient?
 

Redcd

New member
Jan 15, 2021
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#66
No one is chosen to salvation. God chose the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe . Thats very different . God is not so insecure that he has to choose people to be saved .
John 6:44 KJV No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#67
John 6:44 KJV No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Can come . They CAN come . It doesn't say ' and will believe " . Also this is pre crucifixion. Afterwards, Jesus draws ( attracts ) ALL men to him . So no one CAN come unless the Father draws ( but as we read they came and then fled afterwards . But John 12.32 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Is where we see the Son is the one who draws . We never read later that the Father is drawing, nor the Holy Spirt after John 6 .
 
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#68
John 6:44 KJV No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
No man can come to Jesus, unless the Father first performs the action of drawing. That pretty much says it all.

John 1: 12-13 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become children of God, even ( that is) to them that believe on His name; Who were born, NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, "BUT OF GOD" .

EPHESIANS 2: 8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God --Not of works , lest any man should boast.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#69
No man can come to Jesus, unless the Father first performs the action of drawing. That pretty much says it all.

John 1: 12-13 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become children of God, even ( that is) to them that believe on His name; Who were born, NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, "BUT OF GOD" .

EPHESIANS 2: 8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God --Not of works , lest any man should boast.
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#70
If they receive water baptism because they repented of their sins, trust in Jesus, and receive the Holy Spirit, then they are saved. If they receive water baptism without really repenting, then the water baptism wont save them.
No verse says ' repent of your sins " You obviously have fallen into the Acts 2.38 trap.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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#71
1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful, BY WHOM YOU WERE CALLED unto the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1: 3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath belessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. According as He HATH CHOSEN US in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him, in love. Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure OF HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory OF HIS GRACE, through which He HATH MADE US ACCEPTED in the Beloved; In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.

John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 17: 2 As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life TO AS MANY AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM.
In this verse, Jesus is praying to the Father and is referring to Himself in the third person.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#72
1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful, BY WHOM YOU WERE CALLED unto the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1: 3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath belessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. According as He HATH CHOSEN US in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him, in love. Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure OF HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory OF HIS GRACE, through which He HATH MADE US ACCEPTED in the Beloved; In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.

John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 17: 2 As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life TO AS MANY AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM.
In this verse, Jesus is praying to the Father and is referring to Himself in the third person.
when is the adoption?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#73
1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful, BY WHOM YOU WERE CALLED unto the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1: 3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath belessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. According as He HATH CHOSEN US in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him, in love. Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure OF HIS WILL. To the praise of the glory OF HIS GRACE, through which He HATH MADE US ACCEPTED in the Beloved; In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.

John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 17: 2 As thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life TO AS MANY AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM.
In this verse, Jesus is praying to the Father and is referring to Himself in the third person.
Notice your in the the old testament there. Things change after the cross .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#74
Read Acts 19: 2-7 where disciples of John got baptized with water and had not received the Holy Spirit. When John the baptist baptized it was a baptism of repentance. When Paul explained Jesus to them, they believed in Jesus , and the verse says they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. There was no ritual in this baptism. It happened when they believed. They then received the gift of the Holy Spirit. John's baptism with water was a baptism of repentance.

Acts 2: 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Notice the 3 elements of salvation. Repentance, being baptized in the name of Jesus, and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Repentance is a state of being and is granted by the Father.

Acts 11: 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Water baptism is a public declaration of repentance. When the Father grants a person repentance, they can declare it publicly, or not. He can declare his repentance publicly with water baptism, or privately to God in prayer.
We should not arrive at doctrines from the book of Acts ..Acts is a transitional book .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#76
As soon as you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Thats incorrect .
Now read Rom 8.23 .
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for THE ADOPTION, to wit, the redemption of our body.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#77
As soon as you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Adoption is the future redemption of the body, not conversion. (Rom. 8:23, 15-17; Gal. 4:1-6)

Sinners become sons of God through the new birth, not through adoption. (John 1:12-13)