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H
haz
Guest
You misunderstand 1Thess 4:7.
Note 1Thess 4:3-7 for context.
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification (which we have, Heb 10:10, when we believe on Jesus), that ye should abstain from(spiritual) fornication(with Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24).
4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour (that is fight the good fight of faith, keeping the commandment to believe on Jesus, 1Tim 6:12-14);
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles (non-believers) which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud (do not be a liar who denies Jesus is the Christ, 1John 2:22) his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness(those who continue to fight the good fight, believing on Jesus,are holy in him, Rom 11:16).
1Thess 4:3-7 speaks out against unbelief..
Those under the law are in unbelief, as the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
Gal 5:4 confirms that legalists are in unbelief.
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Note also the warning to teachers in James 3 which corresponds with 1Thess 4:6 which likewise warns of greater condemnation for those who lead others away from Christ.
James 3:1
My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation
And note the example James 3 gives of error teaching that deserves greater condemnation.
James 3:8-11
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Therewith bless (love) we God, even the Father; and therewith curse (judge/condemn under the law) we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing (love/grace) and cursing ( judgement/condemnation under the law).
My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water (love/grace) and bitter (judgement/condemnation under the law)?
1Thess 4:6 and James 3:8-11 both warn of dire consequences for anyone leading others away from Christ with the false teaching under the law.
Rom 11:6 says we cannot mix works and grace.
James likewise questions, does a fountain send forth sweet water and bitter from the same place?
You would be wise to heed these warnings Kenneth.
1John 1 refers to non-Christians as is confirmed by the evangelical context of 1John 1 which "declares eternal life" (John 3:16) so that they also "may have fellowship".
Once we receive Christ we have ceased from sin from that very day, as long as we continue to believe on Jesus. There is no future sins for Christians. Satan the accuser (Rev 12:9,10) cannot charge Christians with ANY THING (Rom 8:33).
1Pet 4:1
Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh (crucified), arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has ceased from sin,
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H
haz
Guest
James 1 explains how a man is tempted, being drawn by his own lust.
Lust for whom or what?
It's Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24.
And remember that the law is not of faith, Gal 33:12.
And then when lust (for Hagar) is conceived it brings forth sin which leads to death.
So how does one make themselves a sinner?
Gal 2:18
For if I build again those things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of t he law), I make myself a transgressor/Sinner
Gal 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace
Unbelief in Jesus is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9.
H
haz
Guest
Gal 4:21-24
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar
Consider what those who desire to under the law do.
Rom 9:31,32
but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
Now consider the spiritual relationship Christians have with the Lord.
1Cor 6:15-18
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and makethem members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one bodywith her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
18 Flee (spiritual) sexual immorality (with Hagar). Every sin that a man does is outside the body (of Christ that we abide in), but he who commits (spiritual) sexual immorality (with Hagar) sins against his own body (Christ).
Eph 5:31,32“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Christians are one Spirit with the Lord.
Being saved by grace, we see that our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
And how could a professing Christian damage this spiritual marriage with the Lord?
The same as what would damage a physical marriage. ADULTERY. LUSTING FOR ANOTHER.
And who is this other that we should not lust after?
It's Hagar, who is symbolic for righteousness by works of the law, Gal 4:24.
What is the result if one turns to deeds of the law to determine righteousness?
Gal 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace
To mix works of the law with grace, is unbelief.
To lust after Hagar is to reject God's will for us.
1Thess 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification (which we have, Heb 10:10, when we believe on Jesus): that you should abstain from (spiritual) sexual immorality (with Hagar).
Scripture is spiritually discerned, 1Cor 2:14.
Therefore when we read scripture it is speaking mainly about the spiritual marriage with Christ. So just as in the physical one should not commit adultery, then we see likewise in scripture the focus is on us not committing spiritual adultery with Hagar (symbolic for righteousness by works of the law.
Remember Rom 9:31,32
but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
And Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works(of the law/lusting after Hagar) they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.
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M
Mitspa
Guest
Just read and believe the truth for the truth shall make you free.....become a fool and God will make you wise..
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Just read and believe the truth for the truth shall make you free.....become a fool and God will make you wise..
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Delivered from the law of sin.
not delivered from the Law of righteousness...................
Just read and believe the truth for the truth shall make you free.....become a fool and God will make you wise..
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Ok so I can go out an kill and steal and commit adultery?
After all, there is no law against it, right?
You say, "Oh, but a Christian wouldn't do that." Really? And what makes the difference? There is no Law to prohibit it.
Tell me this, which person would you like to me late at night in a dark alley? One who believes the Law is done away? Or a Commandment keeper?
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Ohh, but the adversary has turned the minds of the people up-side-down.
Ohh, but the adversary has turned the minds of the people up-side-down.
LOL "how dare you bring reality into the false dream the people of the world have accepted!"
Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."
M
Mitspa
Guest
If you wont believe the clear Words of God...im not sure you can ever be delivered from your errors?
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Isayah 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil righteous, and righteous evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Oh but that silly and done away OLD testament right?
Nope it has a mirror image verse in the New:
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Oh but that silly and done away OLD testament right?
Nope it has a mirror image verse in the New:
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
lol........
The law of sin and death is not, "do not steal" "do not kill" "love your neighbor" "do not take the Name of YHWH in vain", the law of sin and death is what you see on a television daily...
Ok, so Romans 7:
7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
Obedience to Leviticus 19:18, "Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am Yahweh." is holy.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
"sin might become utterly sinful" breaking "do not steal" is sin and death
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
the Law is spiritual;
Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great.
Breaking "You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great." is carnal
16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.
17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.
22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;
23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.
25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.
"I have deliverance"
deliverance from "do not steal" or deliverance from breaking "do not steal"
Romans 8:
2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.
(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.)
3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."
Is sin "do not steal?"
or is sin breaking "do not steal?"
(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
What is the flesh opposed to?
Following Yahweh's Law?
Rejecting Yahweh's Law?
carnal mind is enmity against
for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh
2 Kepha 3:15-16, "...Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."
M
Mitspa
Guest
Its the law that strengthens these lust in you...the reason these things are so appealing to you and you cannot understand why others do not have these lust is because you have not been converted to the Divine nature of God.
To be delivered from something doesn't mean it no longer exists...
Dan 6:19 Then the king arose very early in the morning, and went in haste unto the den of lions.
Dan 6:20 And when he came to the den, he cried with a lamentable voice unto Daniel: and the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?
Dan 6:21 Then said Daniel unto the king, O king, live for ever.
Dan 6:22 My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.
So were the lions still alive and present in the den?
Dan 6:24 And the king commanded, and they brought those men which had accused Daniel, and they cast them into the den of lions, them, their children, and their wives; and the lions had the mastery of them, and brake all their bones in pieces or ever they came at the bottom of the den.
Daniel was delivered from death at the mouths of the lions. That did not do away with the lions.
To be delivered from the Law means we are not subject to penalty of the Law...
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I find it interesting that God thought the Law so important and permanent that Christ had to die to pay the penalty in our stead. If the Law is done away, why did Christ have to die to pay the penalty? Why didn't God just wave a magic wand and say the Law is done away? No more sin.
There are two ideas about a solution to the sin problem here...
1) The Law is still in effect and we need someone to pay the penalty for us (God's solution through Christ)
2) Just do away with the Law and there is no more sin. (Bet you can't guess where this one comes from? Here is a hint... 2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, )
Whos your daddy Mitspa?
1 Corinthians 4:15-16, "For though you have countlessb guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father (3962. patér) in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."
Matthew 23:9, "And call no man your father (3962. patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."
1 Corinthians 4:15-16, "For though you have countlessb guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father (3962. patér) in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."
Matthew 23:9, "And call no man your father (3962. patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."
M
Mitspa
Guest
Sure the law is still effect for those under the law....all who are not in Christ....
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.......