The hatred of Jews
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Ezekiel 18:32: For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
Genesis 6:6: And the Lord repented that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him in His heart.
Ephesians 4:30: And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The bible doesn't prescribe us to necessarily grieve those who are lost and die, but it absolutely gives us examples of the Lord grieving for them. The bible does the opposite as you describe yourself, in not grieving for the saved ones (Gensis 6:6). Do you think God was grieved when Lucifer rebelled?
I grieve the Jews that do not accept Christ as their Savior and who "trample on the Blood of Christ while living". As you put it, it is BECAUSE they "will be out of eternity with Him and us" and will be "lost forever" that God grieves.
Genesis 6:6: And the Lord repented that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him in His heart.
Ephesians 4:30: And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The bible doesn't prescribe us to necessarily grieve those who are lost and die, but it absolutely gives us examples of the Lord grieving for them. The bible does the opposite as you describe yourself, in not grieving for the saved ones (Gensis 6:6). Do you think God was grieved when Lucifer rebelled?
I grieve the Jews that do not accept Christ as their Savior and who "trample on the Blood of Christ while living". As you put it, it is BECAUSE they "will be out of eternity with Him and us" and will be "lost forever" that God grieves.
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Actually, it has everything to do with it. I conceded that we aren't commanded to grieve, so you're right in that you aren't required to grieve for those who are unsaved (non-believing Jews and Shukr for example). I just posted a few scriptures which shows God grieving over those who are unsaved.
In your post, you asked why grieve for those who were lost/didn't accept Christ... Didn't you? But later in your post, you give the exact answer on why God grieved for them... BECAUSE they "will be out of eternity with Him and us" and will be "lost forever".
If you don't mind answering, I'm curious, do you think God grieved when Lucifer fell?
In your post, you asked why grieve for those who were lost/didn't accept Christ... Didn't you? But later in your post, you give the exact answer on why God grieved for them... BECAUSE they "will be out of eternity with Him and us" and will be "lost forever".
If you don't mind answering, I'm curious, do you think God grieved when Lucifer fell?
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None of those Scriptures say that God grieved for THEM.
Ezekiel says He gets no pleasure in the death of the lost, not that He grieves them.
In Genesis God is not sorry FOR man, but that He CREATED man.
Ephesians talks about US (His saved Children) grieving HIM.
Not sure how you got that He grieves for those who reject Him and the Sacrifice His Son made from those passages.
He did weep for Lazarus, a SAVED brother.
I have no idea if God grieved FOR Satan. I suspect not.
Ezekiel says He gets no pleasure in the death of the lost, not that He grieves them.
In Genesis God is not sorry FOR man, but that He CREATED man.
Ephesians talks about US (His saved Children) grieving HIM.
Not sure how you got that He grieves for those who reject Him and the Sacrifice His Son made from those passages.
He did weep for Lazarus, a SAVED brother.
I have no idea if God grieved FOR Satan. I suspect not.
You've missed the Spirit of God if you think He isn't grieved when man turns against Him. These are just a few examples of God grieving for His children. The fact that unbelievers reject Christ does not mean He does not grieve them... It's because He loves them that He grieves them.
In Ezekiel, "getting no pleasure in death of the lost" implies it's more of a negative feeling than a positive one, yes? Perhaps He is grieved as any father would over a son who is lost?
In Genisis, I believe you missed the meaning of that passage entirely. God "regretted" making man why? Because of the wickedness of mankind at the time (minus Noah). Your interpretation is that God grieved over making man... Please reread:
Genesis 6:5-8
5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
You seem to think grieving is somehow condoning what someone has done in their life. That is not definition of grieving. God loves us and it pains Him when we turn our back on him. Even though God was going to wipe the wicked people off the face of the earth, He doesn't take pleasure in doing this. It grieved Him. We must remember there are consequences for our actions (sins), and that just because God is orchestrating an event to wipe out mankind, it doesn't mean He doesn't grieve His lost children. "Love" and "grieving" go hand-in-hand as I'm sure you know this as you mentioned the other day you're a father. I hope you reconsider your interpretation.
In Ezekiel, "getting no pleasure in death of the lost" implies it's more of a negative feeling than a positive one, yes? Perhaps He is grieved as any father would over a son who is lost?
In Genisis, I believe you missed the meaning of that passage entirely. God "regretted" making man why? Because of the wickedness of mankind at the time (minus Noah). Your interpretation is that God grieved over making man... Please reread:
Genesis 6:5-8
5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
You seem to think grieving is somehow condoning what someone has done in their life. That is not definition of grieving. God loves us and it pains Him when we turn our back on him. Even though God was going to wipe the wicked people off the face of the earth, He doesn't take pleasure in doing this. It grieved Him. We must remember there are consequences for our actions (sins), and that just because God is orchestrating an event to wipe out mankind, it doesn't mean He doesn't grieve His lost children. "Love" and "grieving" go hand-in-hand as I'm sure you know this as you mentioned the other day you're a father. I hope you reconsider your interpretation.
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This post reminds me of those who strain out the gnat (someone saying they don't grieve for the lost when they die) while they swallow the camel.
You seem to be going to great effort to point out that God is not pleased when the wicked die. That is a good point you are making.
But wouldn't it therefore stand to reason you would be far more concerned with the world swallowing the camel? The man is a terrorist and a mass murderer. Wouldn't someone with such delicate sympathies as you have for grieving for the dead grieve for all the people he killed?
You seem to be going to great effort to point out that God is not pleased when the wicked die. That is a good point you are making.
But wouldn't it therefore stand to reason you would be far more concerned with the world swallowing the camel? The man is a terrorist and a mass murderer. Wouldn't someone with such delicate sympathies as you have for grieving for the dead grieve for all the people he killed?
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Appreciate it. This was the point of the discussion.
I never made the case we SHOULDN'T be concerned with what Shukr did. Penned questioned why we should grieve over the unsaved dead (like Shukr and unbelieving Jews for example) and denied that God grieves over them. I conceded that the bible doesn't command us TO grieve for them, but I did point out that God absolutely does. He refutes the claim so I wanted to apply scripture to show that because God loves us, He grieves when we sin/turn away from him, as was the case in Genisis.
Two things can be true. We can "concern ourselves" with Shukr and God does grieve the unsaved. It's a strawman to ask, "wouldn't someone with such delicate sympathies as you have for grieving the dead grieve for all people he killed"? I never made a personal claim about grieving or not grieving over his death and the people he killed, but a case that God does in fact grieve over His lost children which you and I are in agreement.
I never made the case we SHOULDN'T be concerned with what Shukr did. Penned questioned why we should grieve over the unsaved dead (like Shukr and unbelieving Jews for example) and denied that God grieves over them. I conceded that the bible doesn't command us TO grieve for them, but I did point out that God absolutely does. He refutes the claim so I wanted to apply scripture to show that because God loves us, He grieves when we sin/turn away from him, as was the case in Genisis.
Two things can be true. We can "concern ourselves" with Shukr and God does grieve the unsaved. It's a strawman to ask, "wouldn't someone with such delicate sympathies as you have for grieving the dead grieve for all people he killed"? I never made a personal claim about grieving or not grieving over his death and the people he killed, but a case that God does in fact grieve over His lost children which you and I are in agreement.
True, but you left the other part undone.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Yes.
God grieves when His CHILDREN go astray.
NOT everyone is His Child. You become His Child by accepting His Son and being born again.
NOWHERE in Scripture does it say God grieves for those that reject Him. Because they AREN'T His children!
So YOU can infer all sorts of things from Scripture. I'll stick to what it actually says.
God grieves when His CHILDREN go astray.
NOT everyone is His Child. You become His Child by accepting His Son and being born again.
NOWHERE in Scripture does it say God grieves for those that reject Him. Because they AREN'T His children!
So YOU can infer all sorts of things from Scripture. I'll stick to what it actually says.
There are different types of children. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. We, Christians, are adopted children of God. The world, in a general sense, are children of God. That wasn't what I was pointing at but I understand you want to be clear on this.
Let's rewind a bit. Do you believe God only grieves for His "adopted children" (Christians)? Do you object to Jews claiming to be children of God because they are currently not saved (they reject Jesus Christ as Savior)? Lastly, do you think God grieves over these unsaved Jews?
If God does grieve over these Christ-rejecting Jews, then He clearly grieves for His non-adopted children. Just as the moment the world turned to wickedness, they are no longer God's adopted children, but nevertheless, God still grieves/grieved as Genisis states.
Let's rewind a bit. Do you believe God only grieves for His "adopted children" (Christians)? Do you object to Jews claiming to be children of God because they are currently not saved (they reject Jesus Christ as Savior)? Lastly, do you think God grieves over these unsaved Jews?
If God does grieve over these Christ-rejecting Jews, then He clearly grieves for His non-adopted children. Just as the moment the world turned to wickedness, they are no longer God's adopted children, but nevertheless, God still grieves/grieved as Genisis states.
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