If you are calling these men that Paul is referring to in Rom 10 unregenerate natural men, you need to review 1 Cor 2:14 again to see what the natural man is capable of understanding about spiritual things. The natural man has no desire to worship a spiritual God that he cannot understand (discern).
The house of Israel
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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I am not sure that I understand. How can they be children of God, but not true children?Romans 9:6-11
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Galatians 3:6-7
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Galatians 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Who is Israel? The children of Abraham.
Who are the children of Abraham? The children of God.
Who are the children of God? Neither jew nor greek, bond nor free, male or female. All who are Christs are the children of God.
Israel has always been the children of God and the children of God have always been Israel. But only those who are of Faith like Abraham are the true children. Not of the flesh like 99.99% of people mistakenly think.
They can't.
When you say that Israel are the children of God you have to define who Israel is and who the children of God are.
You can say that all Israel are the children of God, including the fleshly Israel. But the true children of God are those who are of Faith like Abraham.
I think that our misunderstanding is that we are not with the same understanding of spiritual Israel (represented by Jacob whose name God changed to be called Israel,). Most of the Israel scriptures are referring to Jacob as spiritual Israel. All Of the nation of Israel is not elect, just those represented by Jacob as the elect. The only children of God are those represented by Jacob. The rest are not his children.
A picture of being born again
Interestingly His name is changed from "deceived" (Jacob) as in natural unconverted man .as one that has no faith and must wrestles against flesh and blood to Israel; "Having the power with of God (Emmanuel)……. not of us and therefore effective with men as those who do not wrestles against flesh but men who are yoked with Him in spirit.
Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
God also said that he choose Jacob over Esau (before they were born and had done no good or evil) to show that his election might stand not of works, but of him that calleth.
It would seem the same kind of parable as with Cain and Abel . Unbelief and faith The second birth first to represent God's first born the spiritual birth . In Adam all mankind dies. In Christ all the at the father gives live.
O
obedienttogod
Guest
It's rather clear when we remember Joseph's dream of his brothers bowing down to him. There is a reference to that in the beginning of chapter 12 to indicate the nation of Israel. Then eventually, we see the nation of Israel in conflict with the antichrist when they realize they have been deceived. Ultimately, we see the remaining Jews escaping into what we know as Petra.
O
obedienttogod
Guest
It's like I stated in the reply you quoted. I believe in my opinion that you are incorrect, but this is a topic I also don't care much about to actually get involved in a debate about.
O
obedienttogod
Guest
I see you are one who cannot get the entire gist of what someone else states. You need people to fill in all of the blanks from beginning to end, without being able to see for yourself, their entire view in a few words.
I have never stated that God has rejected the Jews. You do not have an understanding of spiritual Israel, which is representative of Jacob, who God changed his name to be called Israel. If, from your lack of knowledge, you can not understand, I accept your reluctance to continue discussing the subject.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
No, God has not rejected the Jews, His chosen people. Romans 11 makes that clear.
Will he be more faithful to the Jews than other nations that are holding out the gospel or does God put no difference between a Jew and a Gentile ?
He purifies the hearts of both by a work of his faith that he works in them to both will and do His good pleasure, there is no difference there.
What is the purpose of using a Jew other than to represent either and blessing from God or a curse. Just as clean and unclean animals and food is used ? Do they have a advantage today or would you say disadvantage? Or is it just flesh that never could profit to begin with?
God will not reject his Gentile chosen people either .Choosing both in the same way. Romans 11 makes it clear he will not cast away any of his people he foreknew.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.Romans 11;2
God's chosen people is not the whole nation of Israel, but only a part. All of Israel is not of Israel. God's chosen people are those who are of the house of Jacob, who is representative of spiritual Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel.
garee, This is true because God's chosen people is spiritual Israel, which is through Jacob, is people from every kindred, nation, and tongue.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Right, and verse 28 specifically states, "For as regards the gospel, they are enemies on account of you; but as regards election, beloved on account of the patriarchs." (this is only during the "blindness... UNTIL"
and the "…27 And this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins.” v.27 [Romans 9:26/Hos1:10 re: Israel "And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God." …whereas Romans 9:25/Hos2:23b is re: the Gentiles])
zionism is running rampant in many churches. brethren, the kingdom is not a piece of real-estate in the middle east.
we are not to be involved in worldly politics and pick sides, we are not to be unequally yoked with either side of the issue, both in antichrist spirit.
i say this because of its relevancy: the house of israel are the people of God. jews and gentiles in Christ. God has saved and will save jews and gentiles in the same way, add them to the Lord's church. the remnant in romans will also join this church
those who have faith are the offspring of abraham and heirs according to the promise. the flesh profits nothing. if ye were of abraham you would do the works of abraham our Lord said to the pharisees.
shadows and types. the jews need to hear the gospel like everyone else. only obedience to the gospel can change a heart, all wickedness comes from the heart, once the heart is purged we can walk as new creatures in Christ, good vessels prepared for the master's use.
be led by God's Spirit at all times. go where the Master tells to go.
we are not to be involved in worldly politics and pick sides, we are not to be unequally yoked with either side of the issue, both in antichrist spirit.
i say this because of its relevancy: the house of israel are the people of God. jews and gentiles in Christ. God has saved and will save jews and gentiles in the same way, add them to the Lord's church. the remnant in romans will also join this church
those who have faith are the offspring of abraham and heirs according to the promise. the flesh profits nothing. if ye were of abraham you would do the works of abraham our Lord said to the pharisees.
shadows and types. the jews need to hear the gospel like everyone else. only obedience to the gospel can change a heart, all wickedness comes from the heart, once the heart is purged we can walk as new creatures in Christ, good vessels prepared for the master's use.
be led by God's Spirit at all times. go where the Master tells to go.
The whole book of Romans was written by Paul and is addressed to "all that be in Rome,beloved of God, called to be saints". Paul is telling them in Rom 10 that they are a part of spiritual Israel (not the whole nation of Israel) and that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, for they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and were going about to establish their own righteousness, having not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. They were trying to establish their eternal salvation by their good works, as such do some on this forum. Jesus instructed the apostles to go and preach to the "lost sheep (God'd born again children) of the house of (spiritual) Israel. The remnant are those of God's elect who have been taught and understand the doctrine that Jesus taught (the church).