The Law.................Faith

[Hoffco]

I believe the whole bible to be the word of God and yet I have no faith or confidence in the law as the law can not save a soul. My faith is is in Jesus Christ alone. Why put faith in the law when it relies on your performance? No my faith is in Jesus Christ alone and the finished work of the cross. Jesus is my savior, not the old law which is now obsolete and fading away.

danschance, if you don't have a PERFORMING faith, you have a damning faith. If faith is real , it will perform by keeping the laws of God for our age, only. Love Hoffco

 

[pickles]

Hoffco, I do believe you have misunderstood my posting.
I do not say any should not study the scriptures, be obedient or seek our Lord Jesus.
I say that none of these will bare fruit, with out faith.
One can do all things, but if they do not have faith, why do them?
The same is also in with God's love.
Other wise all is empty, not made.
Anyway, just wanted to clarify in case you misunderstood.

God bless
pickles

Why then, are the "faith only" people the most miserable people in the world? It is because they don't study the Bible hard to gain God's understanding and wisdom of life ,LIFE. They don't have LIFE in Jesus. They are not " born of God"! Love to all Hoffco

 

[Cobus]

Wy is it so difficult to understand God says CLEARLY... Hebrews 11:6... Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.....And God tells us these are the ones that please God.... The ones that... Do not walk in the darkness (sin) as before. The ones that have NO fellowship with UNFRUITFUL works of the darkness (sin) but rather REPROVE sin. Eph 5. And the ones that does have this faith AND LAW... are the ones that 2 Peter 1:4 to 9 talks about....


Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Looks like the salvation of God is PERFEFCT FAITH, DIVINE NATURE, and a NEVER FALL situation. WOW! RIGHT HERE ON EARTH!

 

[ivanc0]

[h=2]

The Law.................Faith[/h] (sorry, couldn't resist........)

The Law……………..Faith

Mi good friend, you have not put the most important scripture about this subject:


[h=3]Matthew 5:17-23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


So no one tilde, or dot of the law? now see under you underware and see if you circumcised? do you go to the sinagoge in saturdays, and offer birds in the altar like jesus ordered to the blind/paralitic. (excuse my memory). I am sure the answer is NO.

So what happened?... no a tilde no a dot!

What happenned? .... The law was fullfilled in the cross..... so the law of moses is GONE.

 

[Hoffco]

ivancO, I could not have said it any better than you have said, in post 84. ONLY the laws Jesus reinstated are for us today. There are many eternal truths of God that are still in force and true for us today. these are further developed in the N.T.. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[p_rehbein]

Why then, are the "faith only" people the most miserable people in the world? It is because they don't study the Bible hard to gain God's understanding and wisdom of life ,LIFE. They don't have LIFE in Jesus. They are not " born of God"! Love to all Hoffco

Please show me the EVIDENCE of such a comment........goodness.............you just stated that those who disagree with you are not believers in and disciples of Jesus Christ.................seriously?

I don't know what the rules on CC say about those who do such, but I would think you owe many here an apology at the very least.

In any event, such a comment simply adds to the number of folks on my "Ignore List."

 

[pickles]

Thankyou p_rehbein, should have spoken to this myself, as all whom I have known who lived faith in Jesus, are the most at peace and happy people I have known.
We are called to put our trust in God, there is no trust with out faith, there is no salvation with out faith, there is no grace with out faith.
How can one claim to know God, with out faith?

God bless
pickles

Please show me the EVIDENCE of such a comment........goodness.............you just stated that those who disagree with you are not believers in and disciples of Jesus Christ.................seriously?

I don't know what the rules on CC say about those who do such, but I would think you owe many here an apology at the very least.

In any event, such a comment simply adds to the number of folks on my "Ignore List."

 

[Cobus]

Hoffco I agree... God says without faith no one can please God. But God is not a DORMANT God. God is a living and never sleeping ACTIVE God.

Faith without works is DEAD! So it looks lke the WORKS OF FAITH is what please God. And what WORKS will that be? Sin? Never! Holy Works? Always!

Here is the thing Hoffco has 100% right. Only the ones BORN of God can please God, for they are the ones that believed and FAITH THROUGH GRACE saved them.

If I try to start a motor engine withour FINISHING the engine IT WILL NOT WORK! Same with God's people. If God does not FINISH them before he use them THEY DO NOT WORK. No matter how much faith they got. It is quite simple. Imagine God did not listen to the prayer of the one HE sent to pray. It is a WASTE of time and a reason to SCOFF GOD.

If I sent my son to switch on a light, I will not see until he did switch on the light. IF God send His son to save me, I am not saved until HE SAVED ME! Only the saved are BORN OF GOD. There is not ONE person that is born of God that is not saved. And there is not one saved person that is not born of God.

Here is the thing you should know by now. ALL SAVED people have ONE SPIRIT! And that Spirit is the Spirit of God. They do not have two spirits, or three or ten. Nope ONE SPIRIT. WOW! Do you know what this means? How will 5000 men have ONE SPIRIT? Will there be ANY of this bickering amongst them? NOPE. So do I believe like Hoffco that if there is even ONE LITTLE difference between two men that God is not present and full in BOTH... Yes I believe so. Do not mention Peter and Paul if God did not show you why that happened. I know why it happened and I praise God for that insident as well.

Get one thing clear. Eph 4 is as real today as it was back then. God HIMSELF joins the saints to be perfect men in the Body of Christ. That will NEVER change. Praise God he is God. Amen!

 

[ivanc0]

ivancO, I could not have said it any better than you have said, in post 84. ONLY the laws Jesus reinstated are for us today. There are many eternal truths of God that are still in force and true for us today. these are further developed in the N.T.. Love to all, Hoffco

Thanks for your support, is nice to know that there is other people, who has Understood, that the blood of Jesus is Free. The professional pastors will no tell you this. because they need the law to charge you.

Now see this:
Revelation 3:9

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

What Jesus is saying through john? Those who are living jew commandments! and are not jews! (sabbats? Tithing? ) are apostates.

So if you making a living selling the blood of Jesus using teachings of the OT, repent! leave this sin! and came to Christ.

revelation 22:15-17

 

[Hoffco]

God's grace is the key that unlocks the dead heart of the sinner. Saved by grace, grace gives the gift of Faith, and empowers man to do good works. Titus 2:11-14 "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly , righteously, and godly in the present age, Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Who gave Himself for us,, that he might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works." Love to all. Hoffco

 

[Cobus]

Amen grace takes us ALL the way. Faith is a part of grace. ALL GOOD gifts are from above. How can I have faith if God does not give it to me? Romans 5 says we are justified by FAITH, that is why we have peace with God through Jesus by whom we have ACCESS BY FAITH INTO THIS GRACE.... Wow! Looks like Faith and grace really do walk hand in hand.

Anyway, I know Titus says He purify UNTO Himself a peculiar people, ZEALOUS of good works. And that Hebrews talks about how God makes us PERFECT in EVERY GOOD WORK to do HIS WILL.... Heb 13 Titus 2.

MAy God include me in the peculiar people, PLEASE LORD. Amen!

 

[ivanc0]

Matthew 5:17-23

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


So no one tilde, or dot of the law? now look under you underwear and see if you circumcised? do you go to the synagogue in Saturdays, and offer sacrifices in the altar like Jesus ordered to Luk 5:12-16 . I am sure the answer is NO.

So what happened?... no a tilde no a dot!
What happened? .... The law was fulfilled in the cross..... so the law of moses is GONE.

So do not worry to much about the OT, concentrate your efforts in the NT

 

[followjja]

Almost everybody will HAVE TO OBEY this last commandment of Jesus. They will have no choice:

"And then I will declare to them, I never knew you, depart from me, you who work LAWLESSNESS." Matt 7:23 The commands that Jesus gave will last forever.

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but MY WORDS will not pass away." Matt 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke

 

[ivanc0]

IT depends in what you actually really believe!, Bible says there is ONE gospel, but History has show men has been able to create Hundreds maybe Thousands of gospels.

Bible is SIMPLE, has been written for people with SIMPLE minds. But our brains do not want simple answers, we have to take benefit of what we teach, We neeed..... "TITHING".... so now how we build a set of believes that will support this.

We need to go back to the NT, forget all ours believe systems, and try to understand Jesus and his apostles when they tried to create and administer his church.

The truth is there, We need to start again from scratch. Jesus did not gave us his life for only the "GOSPEL GENIUSES" to understand it.

the KISS principle also applies to Christianity.

The Grace does not mean lawless/corrupted/anarquist life, Just means you will do the will of God without the need of compulsive laws.

 

[RedTent]

The Grace does not mean lawless/corrupted/anarquist life, Just means you will do the will of God without the need of compulsive laws.

And how are you going to do the will of God if you deny the laws that tell us of His will? You need the Holy Spirit and love to know, but the Holy Spirit lives within you and fleshly desires lives within you. If you deny any scripture to help lead you to what God says, and you will not recognize God's word, you are going to have a very difficult time of it.

 

[ivanc0]

And how are you going to do the will of God if you deny the laws that tell us of His will? You need the Holy Spirit and love to know, but the Holy Spirit lives within you and fleshly desires lives within you. If you deny any scripture to help lead you to what God says, and you will not recognize God's word, you are going to have a very difficult time of it.

The difficult time came when you mix the OT laws with the NT principles.
If you a Gentile, Please read acts 15:10
Acts 15:10

21st Century King James Version (KJ21)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

This scripture is not the work of one men, the apostles have meet to discuss matters like we discussing now. Paul, Peter,James, and others where there and they resolved the "Law of moses" will not apply to the Gentiles.

How difficult is this to be Understood.

 

[Hoffco]

Thank you to ivancO and cobus, your posts have shed great LIGHT from the Holy Scriptures. To Red tent , we are merely following Jesus thru the N.T. and this gives great honer to God and to His holy commandments of each age, but laws must be "age appropriate"LOL, the old T. laws were good for little children but the age of Jesus needs more grown up laws, including the laws of liberty from ordinances for children. The ten moral laws ,except the 4th, are for us today; But, Jesus made them deeper and blew the dust, shallowness, off. Love to all. Hoffco

 

[lioncub]

Almost everybody will HAVE TO OBEY this last commandment of Jesus. They will have no choice:

"And then I will declare to them, I never knew you, depart from me, you who work LAWLESSNESS." Matt 7:23 The commands that Jesus gave will last forever.

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but MY WORDS will not pass away." Matt 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke

Good point.

 

[Hoffco]

Romans 6:15-23: " What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." These last 2 verses were a part of the invitational pray I prayed with the children in Bible school to day. We confessed our sins that killed Jesus and asked for forgiveness. we believed that Jesus is now alive and asked Him to save us by giving us a new spirit ,heart, to love and obey Him and help us to obey and trust Him every day. We promised to be the good person He wants us to be. We received Him as our Savior and Lord. because we are helpless to save ourselves, only Jesus can save us. In a group prayer I don't know if all of them prayed the pray with me, It sounded loud. But, I feel it is better to do the prayer as a group and explain to them that this prayer doesn't save them, only Jesus can save and only we can ask for Him to save us. Now, we look for change in our lives to prove our faith is real. We then had them write out their testimony as to their salvation. I have yet to read them. It is such a joy to lead people to Christ, CAREFULLY, not to deceive them. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Cobus]

Hoffco I know this much..... God is the one that saves. Ok there is no salvation needed for the SAFE ones. It is the ones in DANGER of DEATH that need to be saved. So god save us from DEATH. And to whom does God refer to as DEAD? The ones that DIED IN SIN.

I see God's salvation as this....

There is a SEA OF SIN. The sea that drowns all unbelievers/sinners/unsaved/world. And ther is a SHIP on the sea. A RESCUE SHIP.... God's WAY OUT OF SIN/SEA/DEADLY WATER. I call the Ship Jesus! Now let us do a rescue as the Gospel of God teaches.

God says there is none of us that is not in the SEA, so WE ALL NEED THIS SHIP....But! Let us look on how effective this ship saves.....

First God is the one that does the saving.... God calls and God let the lne down and God pulls the drowning man to the ship. Then God dries the man of ALL the water, God then feeds and clothe the man with DRY WARM CLOTHES. Moments ago the man was in DEAD DARK WATER, COLD AND DESTINED FOR DEATH, but now!!!! God lifted the man from the water, dried and fed the man, then God does the most amazing thing....... God makes the man WALK ON THE WATER that almost KILLED him. WOW!

God not only save from the water but he also give ALL His saved ones the power to WALK ON THE WATER like HIS SON DID!
For ALL who God saves is a NEW CRATURE and DEATH WILL NEVER BE PART OF THEM AGAIN. God will CLOTHE them with the SHIP.... Like the SHIP they will NEVER be overcome by the water EVER AGAIN. They are now BORN OF GOD....

Here is some verses that confirms this... 1 John 5:18... We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Imagine the wicket one (the sea of sin/Satan) toucheth us not... WOW

Rev 3:5... He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment;